Literature in TFM

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Literature in TFM

Topic started by Kanchana (@ ww-tp03.proxy.aol.com) on Sat Jul 26 09:09:48 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

Responses:

From: Kanchana (@ ww-tp03.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Jul 26 09:13:21 EDT 1997

I am interested in finding out how many actual literary pieces exist in TFM set to popular music. One example: "Indhiraiyoa ival sundhariyoa" from Kaadhalan is by Thirikooda Raasappa Kaviraayar. Any more original pieces?
From: Padmanabhan Ganesan (@ client-116-32.bellatlantic.net) on: Sat Jul 26 22:32:20 EDT 1997

A lot of Bharathiyar (and a few Bharathidhasan) songs. (We would need a separate thread for that).
From: ravi (@ ww-tz01.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jul 27 01:17:19 EDT 1997

I heard from a reliable source that 'narumugaiyae' from Iruvar is a direct lift from Aga 400. Is it true?
From: Isai Priyan (@ proxyf6.cyberway.com.sg) on: Sun Jul 27 04:21:34 EDT 1997

TO Ravi: Unmai. Adu kurundhogaillirundu appadiyae edukkappatta VAIRA varigal.
From: Kanchana (@ ww-te22.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jul 27 18:39:57 EDT 1997

Ravi & Isai Piriyan:
I thought the Iruvar song starts with the word "Naru Muvayae" not "mugayae". Naru means good; if it is "mugai" it means "mottu"; what does "muvai" mean? Is it "mugayae" or "muvayae"? Is the entire song from Kurunthogai, i.e., is the entire song in "Sanga Thamizh"?

Padmanabhan:
Please feel free to list the Bharadhi/ Bhradhidhasan songs here, or to start a new thread. Either way I am interested in learning which literary works have been taken to the mass audience through movies. Thanks
From: Padmanabhan Ganesan (@ client-116-25.bellatlantic.net) on: Sun Jul 27 20:59:51 EDT 1997

List of Bharathi songs :

Kaatru Veliyidai kannamma - Kappal Ottiya Thamizhan
Kaakkai siraginile - 7 avadhu manithan
Veenaiyadi nee enakku - 7 avadhu manithan (What happened to Neeraja who sang this song ?)
(Other songs from 7 avadhu manithan were also Bharathi songs).
Chinnanchiru kiliye kannamma - Needhikku dhandanai
Nallathor veenai seithe - V.N.Sigappu
Theertha karaiyinile - V.N.Sigappu
Aaduvome pallu paaduvome - Naam Iruvar
Viduthalai Viduthalai Viduthalai - Naam Iruvar
(I think all the songs from Naam Iruvar were Bharathiyar songs. I can't find my cassette right now. Before this movie Bharathi's songs were copyrighted by whom I don't know. AVMeyyappa Chettiyar bought the rights and made Bharathi's songs public domain).
Mohathai kondru vidu - Ini oru sudhanthiram (This song contains verses from another Bharathi song too).
Nallathor veenai seithe - Marupadiyum
Ninnaiye rathi endru - ?
Suttum vizhichchudarthan kannamma - PSuseela / Gangai Amaran MD - Movie ?

Bharathidhasan song :

Thunbam nergaiyil yazh eduthu inbam serka mattaya - movie ?
Sivaji / Padmini duet in Kalyanam panniyum brahmachari.

Bharathidasan was actually a lyricist for movies during the peak of the Dravida movement. Some (many ?) of his songs in movies were written for movies.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on: Sun Jul 27 21:05:51 EDT 1997

You'll find a big list of Bharathiyaar songs under "master index"
under TFM page. (goto the index bottom)

more:
chithira cholaigale(some MGR movie) - bharathidhaasan
thamizhukkum amuthendru per(PS song) - (-do-)
From: PG (@ client-116-25.bellatlantic.net) on: Sun Jul 27 21:42:23 EDT 1997

To Rajaraman / TFM managers :

In Master Index - Chinnanchiru kiliye is listed as sung by Chitra. It was sung by Swarnalatha (her first song).
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ liberty.nus.edu.sg) on: Sun Jul 27 21:54:43 EDT 1997

"Sindhunadhiyin misai nilavininile" from Kaikoduththa
Dheivam is by Bharathiyar. There are many
Bharathiyaar songs in Kappalottiya Thamizhan
such as "Odi viLayaadu paappaa", "endru
thaNiyum indha sudhandhira dhaagam" etc.
apart from "kaatru veLiyidai kaNNammaa".
The song, "Sange
muzhangu" from Kalangarai Vilakkam and
"Chiththira Solaigale" from Naan En Pirandhen
are by B'Dhasan. The song, "pachchai maamalai
pOl mEni pavaLa vaay kamalach cheng kaN" from
Thirumaal Perumai is a very popular Vaishnavaite
piece from "Naalaayira Dhivya Prabandham".
Isn't a piece of "Raakkaamaa kaiyai thattu"
taken from somewhere?
From: Isai Priyan (@ proxy7.cyberway.com.sg) on: Mon Jul 28 00:00:52 EDT 1997

Kanchana, In Naru Mugayae (muvayae?) song the stanza which starts Yaarum Yaarum Yaragiyaro was taken from Kurundhogai.
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.8) on: Mon Jul 28 01:42:58 EDT 1997

muththai tharu - aruNagirinaathar
vaaraNam 1000 - kELadi kaNmaNi (Two versions. One by SJ and other by SPB. reNdu pErum dhUl kiLappittaangka. SJ was a shade better)
naayaki naanmugi (paartha vizhi) - guNa
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Mon Jul 28 04:38:07 EDT 1997

To PG:
Thanks for pointing out the error. I have corrected a few more too. The following
are some of the unidentified songs in
Bharathiyar song list:

kaani nilam vEndum(CS Jayaraman?) - movie?
aahaa vendrezhunthathu - ?
entha nEramum - ?
(The last two may be from Ezhaavathu manithan)
aasai mugam maranthu poche - ?

You can view the list and add in your mite,
http://www.iti.gov.sg/staff/kanagasa/tfm/bharathi.html
From: ilakkiyam_padikAthavan (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Mon Jul 28 05:42:42 EDT 1997

The starting lines sung by P.Sushila in
"mettup pOdu mettup pOdu" in Duet (only bit for PS with ARR) is from thiruvAsagam.

"OndrE kulam endru pAduvOm" in pallAndu vAzga
starts with two thirukkural "anbilar ellAm..."
"theivathAl Agath.."

ALL the songs of Kap Oti Thamizan, nAm iruvar &
7vathu manithan are Barathiyar's songs.

'ponnAl ithu pOlE varumA inimElE" is this from
silappathikAram ???

In Karnan, seerkali sings Bagavath GitA !!

kanthan karunai has one song from thirumurugAtrup padai.

thiruvarutch selvar (Sivaji as sEkkizAr) has songs
from periya purAnam.

how about kamba rAmAyanam in some movie ??
From: Kanchana (@ ww-ti02.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Jul 28 13:13:47 EDT 1997

Rajaraman:
Thanks for referring me to the master index for Bharadhi songs; I'm still finding my way around the TFM page.
By the way, in your master list, you have ?? for the movie name for Soolamangalam's "orumaiyudan". The movie is "Konjum Salangai"

Ilakkyam"Padikaadha Maedhai" Bones:
Padikkaamalae ivvalvu additions?!

To all:
Thank you for enlightening me. Movies seem to have popularized a significant number of sanga kaala literature and more recent kavidhaigal as your lists reveal.
From: PG (@ igw2.merck.com) on: Mon Jul 28 14:29:35 EDT 1997

Quite a few Kannadhasan songs were inspired/based on Thamizh Ilakkiya padaippugal.

Veedu varai uravu is based on a Pattinathar song. (PPP has a note on this song).

Athikaai kaai kaai (BalE Paandiyaa) is inspired by a similar song of Siledai Mannan Kalamegam (You can find this venbaa in Kalamegam's Thanippadal thirattu).

When Kannadhasan quit the Dravida Movement and became a theist, Unmai (I think) the propaganda magazine for DK used to run a series called Kannadhasan's kavidhai thiruttkkal in which it traced the sources of many Kannadhasan songs.
From: Kanchana (@ ww-tk42.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jul 29 13:36:15 EDT 1997

Is the Soolamangalam song "Kuyil Koovi thuyil ezhuppa, Kodi arumbu kann vizhikka" from Naanal contain literary verses? The words sound archaic enough to be from old literature.
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Tue Jul 29 21:05:17 EDT 1997

Have we counted the following:

Sithamellaam enakku sivamayame - Prelude
Solladi abhiraami - Prelude from Abirami Andhaathi

Bones, how about "athaandaa ithaandaa" !
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Tue Jul 29 22:57:23 EDT 1997

The short piece in "raakkamma kayya thattu" is
from ThirunAvukkarasar's thEvAram:

kuniththa puruvamum kovvai chevvAyil kumiNsirippum
paniththa sadaiyum pavaLampOl mEniyil pAlveNNIRum
iniththam udaiya eduththa poRpAdhamum kANappeRRalAl
maniththa piRaviyum vEnduvadhE indha mAnilaththE.
From: athvaitha_brammAnandam (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Wed Jul 30 02:53:43 EDT 1997

Rajaram:
I was thinking the same about "AthAndA ithAndA".
After I dig into few things and deep contemplation,
finally I found the GREAT meaning behind
"AthAndA ithAndA". Here it goes:

"Athu" enbathu "it" which is the term used by
Athi Sankara for "Para Birammam". "ithu" represents
the things which are here in the human world.
The worldly things are nothing but the
reprsentation of GOD - is the core concept of
Athvaitham by Sankara. "AthuthAn ithu"
got modified for the given tune, time and
character.

May be ThenAlirAman and KaLamEgap pulavar
have differnt intrepretation for "AthAndA ithAndA".
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Wed Jul 30 04:30:34 EDT 1997

I always thought "athaandaa ithaandaa" is another
name for the world-famous "vaazhaip pazham" philosophy
founded by the great Acharyaar Sendhil to
teach disciple Goundamani how mathematics is
all maayaa.
From: Satish Subramanian (@ cs-line13.cs.umn.edu) on: Thu Jul 31 01:27:43 EDT 1997

Enna Sathiya Keerthi saar, kindala?

Adhukum (paramatma-vukkum) idhukum (jeevatma-vukkum)
vithiyaasam illai endra thaththuvathai unardhavargal,
adhai nandraaga purindavargal thaan nee-naan endra
verupaadugal, sandaigal, chachcharavugalil yeedupaadu
kolaadhavargal.

Adhai thaan indha paatil - athuthaanda ithu endru
purinda_pin, ellaa Tamizh makkalayum samamaaga
bhaavip_pavan thaan indha Arunachalam!
endru thalaivar paadi irukkaar.

"athaandaa ithaanda Arunachalam naanthaanda
annai tamizh naatile naan aanaivarukkum sothamda!"

Thalaivar characteraiyE purinjukkaa maatengarengalE!

thelivaaga therin_dhaale siththaandham, adhu
theriyaamal ponaalE vEdhaandham?
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Thu Jul 31 17:22:55 EDT 1997

As literature is being discussed here, I would like to know what exactly the lyricist is saying here:

"thoL kanden thoLe kanden
thoLil iru kiLigal kanden"
From: ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Fri Aug 1 07:57:18 EDT 1997

TO cp:

I have seen this 'thoLil iru kiLigal' in some other songs too. 'ANazhaga' from Kadhal Kottai is another one. But the song you have mentioned has some interesting lyrics; in one stanza

thedi vandha thingaL ( ThingaL - moon & monday)
thingaLil sevvai (sevvai - sivandha vai & Tuesday)
sevvayil velli (velli - venmyana paRkkaL & friday)
sertheduthen alli.

Excellent - must be kannadasan. I miss these kind of 'varthai jalams' lately.
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Fri Aug 1 15:29:29 EDT 1997

To Ravi,
Can you throw more light on what verses I posted on Jul 31? It has been always intriguing to me.
From: Heeheehee (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Fri Aug 1 22:59:54 EDT 1997

thoL kanden - I saw a shoulder
thoLe kanden - I saw some skin (bare?)
thoLil iru kiLigal kanden - Saw two birds on the skin/shoulder!
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ liberty.nus.edu.sg) on: Fri Aug 1 23:46:15 EDT 1997

Yov HeeHeeHee:

cp deep meaning Edhaavadhu varigalukku irukkaa
endru kEkkiraaru. Nee varigaLOda appattamaana
meaning-ai sollittu irukkE? Ummai indha paattukku
scene-ai direct paNNa solliyirundhaa eppadi
irukkumunnu puriyudhu: Assistant-ugalai zoo-ukku
anuppi rendu kiLigaLai iraval vaangittu vandhu
KR Vijaya thOl pattaiyil avatrin kaalgaLai pin
paNNivittu Ravichandranai KRVijaya+KiLigaLOdu
nichchayam Oda vittiruppE! Of course, indha
kaalaththu directors-idam indha paattai K'dhasan
koduththirundhaarunna ippadidhaan comedy panni
iruppaanga; nalla vELai manushan uyirOdu illai
avangaLukku paattu ezhuthi thara!

cp:
Aduththa iraNdu varigaL:

vaaL kaNdEn vaaLE kaNdEn
vattamidum vizhigaL kaNdEn

Here K'dhasan obviously compares (koormaiyaana)
vizhi with vaaL. So I guess he is comaring
kiLigaL also with something.

(Back to HeeHeeHee: Yov, idhu vaaL, not vaal;
so Edhaavadhu kurangu vaal appadi ippadi endru
compare paNNa aarambichchudaathE.)
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ liberty.nus.edu.sg) on: Fri Aug 1 23:50:21 EDT 1997

Ravi:

Nalla explanation koduththirukkeenga; idhai
PPP-yil pOduROm, with your permission. Oru
addition: By ThingaL (moon), I think K'dhasan
meant the face; am I right?
From: Copy_Adiththaalum_Dhevavin_Rasigan (@ liberty.nus.edu.sg) on: Sat Aug 2 00:23:57 EDT 1997

Satish:

KiNdal continues ...

AthaaNdaa IthaaNda - vukku isaiyamaiththa Dheva-vai
bEtti kaNdu vandha TFM nirubar koduththa
details:

TFM Nirubar:
Dheva avargaLE, 'athaaNdaa ithaaNdaa' uruvaanadhu
patri engaLukku sollungaLEn.

Dheva:
Neenga pathrikai nirubar illEngiradhunaala ungaLukku
idhan ragasiyaththai solREn. EnnOda thozil
ragasiyaththai mayyamaa vachchu uruvaanadhudhaan
indha "A-I" paattu. Enakku munnaalE pala MDs
prabalamaa irundhirukkaanga: GR, MSV, TKR, KVM
and IR. Ivanga pOdakkoodiya aththanai azhagaana
tunes-um pOttu thaLLeettaanga. Adhanaal naan
enna paNNuradhunnaa, Radio Malaysia-vil dhinam
kEkkura sila pazhaya paadal tune-kaLilirundhu
silavatrai eduththu annaikku vENdiya paadalgaLai
thayaarippEn. Ippadiththaanga, "Baadhsha" padaththukku
isai amaichuttu irundhappO ethir neechchal
padaththil varum "kalyaaNa saappaadu pOdavaa"
paattu Radio-vil kEttEn; adhilirundhu konjam
eduththu "Autokaaraan Autokaaran" paattilE
pOttEn, yaarukkum theriyalai! Surukkamaa ungaLukku
sonnaa: "Athuthaanga Ithuthaanga"; idhayE
ennOda udhaviyaaLargaL Sabesh-Murali-yidam
naan "AthaaNdaa IthaaNdaa" endru solluvEn.

TFM Nirubar:
Appadiyaa vishayam. Sari, indha paattukku
varigaL romba nallaa amainjirukkE? Adhu patri?

Dheva:
chE chE. mudhalil naanthaan indha paattukku
varigaL ezhithinEn; ippa irukkum varigaLai vida avai
innum nallaa irundhana; aanaal Rajini saar thaan pidikkalEnnu
maaththa sollittaaru.

TFM Nirubar:
Appadiyaa? Appadi neengaL ezhuthina varigaL enna?

Dheva:
Naan ezhithiyathu:

athaaNdaa ithaaNdaa thEyithE naanthaaNdaa
pazhaiya thirai paadalgaLil oNNaiyum vida maattENdaa

EvvaLavu nallaa irukkulla?

TFM Nirubar:
Adhu ennanga mudhal variyil "thEyithE"? Vairamuthu
pudhusaa kaNdupidichcha innOru Thamizh vaarththaiyaa?

Dheva:
IllEnga. "thEyithE" endraal "thEn isai thendral"-ukku
surukkam; avvaLavudhaan.

TFM Nirubar:
thEyithE avargaLE, indha bEtti koduththamaikku
romba nandri.

Dheva:
Naanthaanga nandri sollanum; ungaLudan pEsiyathil
enakku romba mana baaram koranja maadhiri irukku.
From: Ravi (@ ww-tc22.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Aug 2 11:09:45 EDT 1997

To Sathiya K: Thanks.
You are correct. I failed to mention that. You don't need my permission. I'm only translating from tamil - tamil. In the same song in another stanza the lyrics goes like this..

Kattadha megam, katti vandha koondhal,
ettadha nilavu, etti vandha podhu
The first line is comapring the hroine's dark, bountiful yet tied hair to a cluster of clouds and the second line compares the moon to the heroine (the face obviously).
ettadha nilavu - moon at unreachable distance (written before Apollo 11)
etti vandha podhu - this could mean either her face is close to him or when she steps towards him (ettu - steps).
The are 2 more songs that make me appreciate Kannadasan's penchant for playing with tamil words;
parthaen, sirithaen - veera abhimanyu
atthikkai kai kai - balae pandiya

Idhu malaithaen ena naan malaithaen - the first malaithaen is honey found in the hills and the latter one is 'astonished'
similarly atthikkai - a veg/fruit and at that direction.
Are there any more songs like these?
From: Kanchana (@ ww-te22.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Aug 2 12:12:09 EDT 1997

Ravi:
Athaan En Athaan plays around with the ending of the word Athaan, to use words as sollithaan, sirithaan etc., bu this song does not have some of the "soll nayam" in the other songs you've mentioned.

A similar play of words was mentioned by some one else in a TFM Page about "Vaan Nilaa Nilaa alla"; uses the ending "ilaa" in various ways--ennilaa (illaadha), kannilaa (ullaeyaa) etc.

Oru kinnathai yaendhuginraen yaen yaen
Pala ennathil neendhuginraen yaen
is another simpler word play.
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Mon Aug 4 11:05:43 EDT 1997

To Hee hee hee:
Yov, NOV! yennayya indha Jekyl & Hyde velai. Oru idaththil NammooruValen innoru idaththil Hee hee hee ya!!!!

Attention everyone!!
Hee hee hee is Nammooruvalen.

To everyone:
Naan ketta andha irandu linesukku mattum badhil kodungaL pls. Aduththa irandu linesukku athrtham enakku purigirathu.
From: Ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Mon Aug 4 13:07:06 EDT 1997

To cp:
If you look at the picture of Andal (thiruppavai fame) she would have 2 'kiligal' on her shoulders. Probably k'dasan meant that. I'm just guessing.
BTW the 'Anazhaga' from Kadhal kottai has tholirendil Ilam kili naan (not iru kili as I had mentioned earlier)
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Mon Aug 4 16:08:25 EDT 1997

To Ravi:
Your guess was good . Hope that was what Kannadasan would have had in his mind. Thanks for the response
From: Rajan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Mon Aug 4 18:29:46 EDT 1997

thOL kandAr thOLE kandar from kamban? Was this an inspiration for kaNNadhAsan? If the female sings
this line then it's 99% kamban ispiration. If it were man's line, ????

thOLiliru kiLigaL kaNdEn?

my two cents to the confusion.
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Mon Aug 4 21:41:40 EDT 1997

Rajan:

The lines are sung by PBS for Ravichandran. So
try some other explanation.
From: Kannan Venkateswaran (@ peugeot.instinet.com) on: Tue Aug 5 13:21:14 EDT 1997

My contribution:
'paartha vizhi paartha padi poothu irukka' - Guna
from 'abirami anthaathi'
'nenju porukkuthillayE' - Parasakthi
by 'Bharathiyar'(?)
'koovina poonguyil koovina kozhi
kurugugal iyambina iyambina sangam
yaavarum ariyariyaay emakkeliyaay
yemberumaan palli ezhutharulaye'
this 'Thirupalliyeluchi' song comes in the beginning of the song:
'sevvanthi pookkalil seytha veedu' - movie ?

How about the 'slogam' in the beginning of this song 'varaathu vantha naayagan' - movie ? ( *ing paarthiban)
From: Aravind (@ 202.42.152.8) on: Tue Aug 5 22:38:54 EDT 1997

' sevvanthip pUkkaLil seytha vIdu ' is from 'mellap pEsungkaL' starring Vasanth and Bhanupriya. en abimaana kanavukkanni Bhanuvukku athu muthal padam enRu ninaikkiREn. sariyaa?

'varaathu vantha naayagan' is from 'thaalaattup paadavaa'. Partiban played the lead role against Khushbu and Rubini. (ellaam nEram!). This movie had all song sung by Arunmozhi. His voice kind of suits Partiban, I think.
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Wed Aug 6 02:49:45 EDT 1997

cp:

Idho ennOda explanation for "thOL kaNdEn":
Oru poNNukku kaadhugaL thalaiyudan otti flat-aaga
irukkunnu vachchukkonga. Front view-vil irundhu paakkum
pOdhu kaadhu sariyaavE theriyaadhu; idhu pOndra kaadhugal
poNNukku azagu alla. On the other hand, kaadhugaL
reNdum konjam (romba alla) vaLaindhu Front view-vil
paakkum pOdhu therinjaa adhu azhagaa irukkum.
Indha maadhiri kaadhugaL udaya oru poNNai
Front view-vil irundhu paarththaal andha skyline
(created by shoulder, face, kaadhu and hairline of the head )
oru kiLi iruppadhu pOl thOndrum.
(The place where upper Kaadhu merges with the
hairline of the head is the kiLi mookku.) If
this is true then reNdu kiLigaL reNdu thOlgaLilum
utkaarndhu koNdu andha peNNin mugaththai symmetrical-aaga paarththuk
koNdiruppadhu pOl munnaal irundhu paarppabavarukku
thOndra vaayppu irukku.
From: NOValen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Wed Aug 6 03:54:25 EDT 1997

Akkadaanu summa irukka vidamaateingeleh!

To: cp
Appediyei, naanthaan Heeheehee-na, yenna? Bones mattumthaan avathaaram yedukka mudiyuma? Yehn kootethei kilapuringeh? Ithu yenna avalavu kodiya vishayama?

Anyway, sorry to disappoint you, I am not Heeheehee. Romba intelligenta kandupuchitohmnu oru yennamma? Too bad. Oru couple rendu idathileirunthu post pandringa (you and Govalu). Athey mathiri rendu (or more) peiru orey idathilirunthu yein post panne koodaathu?
If you really have the time, yella postingleyum theidi paarunga - there are many people writing from one address, which actually belongs to my good friend Vadi Velu! Heeheehee writes in the mrning whereas I am only free in the evenings. I have asked Heeheehee to write about himself, but he won't. He says he has nothing to contribute except pointing out funny situations - quite a comedian he is!
OK, ippo naa vidai peralaamaa?
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Wed Aug 6 10:41:12 EDT 1997

To Sathya Keerthi:
Ayyo, KiLi pola irukka poNNunu solrangaLey. Idhu dhaan arthama? Appa, ippadi oru explanationa? Great Imagination, SathyaKeerthi ! Keep it up! NeengaL enna edhavuthu kadhai kavidhai ezhudhubavara. AnaL yaarum kodukka mudiyadha explanation neengaL koduthirukkereergaL. Karpanai seydha bhodhu enakku vayellam paL.(Hee hee hee kluk kluk kluk).

To N.O.Valen:
Ayya! Neengal avathara purusharo illayo. Sariyana Naradhar. Nandraaga reel suththugireer. NeengaL kalyanam agi poochi pottu irukkuthunnu solreer. Gokul vayasu(22 ) dhaan aguthu engireer, Hee hee hee than Vadi Velu, Vadi Velu than Nammoor engireer. NaangaL ellam enna kadhil pookkoodaiya vaith urikkirOm. Ayyo, Arumaiyana TFM discussion forum oru puzhugu forum aagi vittathe?! Sob! Sob!
From: Kannan Venkateswaran (@ peugeot.instinet.com) on: Wed Aug 6 12:41:08 EDT 1997

thOL kandEn - enadhu explanation

Pallaviyin irandaavadhu adiyil
'vaaL kandEn' enru solli pirahu atahi 'vizhi' engiRaar. ithu 'uruvagam'

enavE mudhal adiyilum 'uruvagam' thaanE irukka mudiyum.
aanaal 'thOL kandEn' - 'kiLi' ->'uvmai' allavaa?

enavE athai 'uruvagam'-aha vaiththu kondaal
ithaRkku sariyaana arththam - enna?

en aRivukku ettia varai, ithuthaan arththam -

thoLil kizhi vaithiruppathu Andaal/Meenakshi,
AhavE naayagiyai paarkkum pOdhu Andaal/Meenakshi pOla miha miha azhagudan irukkiraL.
From: Heeheehee (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Wed Aug 6 21:07:56 EDT 1997

A woman must always have the last word!
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ liberty.nus.edu.sg) on: Wed Aug 6 22:00:12 EDT 1997

To: Ravi, Kannan V, cp:

"thOLil iru kiLigaL" endrallavaa Kavinjar
solliyirukkiraar; aanaal, ANdaaLO MeenaakshiyO
oru kiLi thaanE vaiththiruppaanga? I doubt
whether K'dhasan had one of them in mind.

Naan koduththa "skyline" kiLigaL explanation-ai
check paNNa oru nalla artist thEvai; any one
good at art, can you take a picture of a girl
with some protrusion of the ears towards the
outside, and try drawing a parrot using the
skyline and tell me if it comes out neatly?
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Thu Aug 7 12:25:49 EDT 1997

To Sathya Keerthi:
Correct! AndaLidam oru kiLi dhaan irukkum.
But, seriousa ketkirEn. Oru peNNukku kadhu neengaL solgira madhiri mun puram valaidhirudhaaL "elephant" kadhu madhiri erukkadha? kindal seyyaththaane thondrum!
Oru peNNukku kadhu chinnadhaga irukkavendum. (Not out of proportion). But sila perukkellam kadhu valaindhu elephant kadhu madhiri iruppadhai parthu irukkirEn.
neengaL ungal karpanaiyil thoLgalaiyum serthu kiLi endru solgireer. AnaL Kannadasan "thoLiL iru kiLigal kandEn" endrallava solgirar?

To Hee hee hee:
ennappa solla varugireer?

Appa, this kiLi discussion is driving me crazy!
From: Ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Thu Aug 7 14:34:12 EDT 1997

A lighter interlude to this discussion;
About 10 - 12 years ago, in the Arasu kelvi - badhil section of kumudham;

Vasagar - Yov Arasu! Saagar padam paartheera? namma Dimple eppadi?

Arasu: kaal kandaen, kaale kandaen.
From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Thu Aug 7 15:00:19 EDT 1997

In fact, let me tell you guys one thing. I heard that in Kambar Ramayanam, Kambar had used the verses "thOL kandar thOLey kandar" to compare Lord Rama's shoulders. I wonder how Kannadasan used almost the same words to compare a woman's features?! I still don't get what Kannadasan was trying to say.

Kambar's comparison is very clear. He says that Lord Rama is very handsome that no one can take eyes off him. What a beautiful explanation! I really enjoyed Kambar Ramanayam in my school days.
From: Kanchana (@ ww-te22.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Aug 7 15:01:05 EDT 1997

Sathya Keerthi, Ravi, CP, Kannan:

SK is right in his silhouette theory if you remember the fact that in the olden days they had "vaditha kaadhu"; the bottom of the ear lobes did touch the shoulders and therefore the line will resemble the shape of a parrot.

As Kannan says the first two lines are "uvamai" while the next two about the eyes are "uruvagam". If we accept this discrepancy, then the poet may be comparing the woman's sloping shoulders to the shape of a soft parrot . Remember, in the olden days ilakkiyam, men were described as having "yEru thOL" while the women had to have sloping "sarindha thOL" to qualify as being handsome/ pretty.

(Sorry I responded to this ilakkiyam section in English, but correctly romanizing Thamizh fast is not a skill I've mastered.)

Ravi, that was a good break joke! How do you recall the old kumudham interviews? The only thing I remember is a movie review's last line--"Neethikku Pin Paasam. Paadhikku Pin Moasam."
From: Kannan (@ peugeot.instinet.com) on: Thu Aug 7 18:15:44 EDT 1997

indhiyan padaththil varum paattu -
pachai kiLigal thOLOdu

ennamo thOLukkum kiLikkum sambandham irukku.

innumOru correction - thOLil enruthaan solkiraar,
thOLkaLil enru sollavillai( vizhigal enru solgiraar but not thOLkaL).
oru thOL enraal, avar iru kaathukalai patRi
paadiyirukka mudiyaadhu enbhadhu en karuththu!!
From: Kanchana (@ ww-tj22.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Aug 7 19:00:28 EDT 1997

Kannan:
When a poet says "thOL kanndaen" (s)he can say it to mean one or two--it is a general category usage, allowed by poetic license and to be interpreted in singular or plural dependng on the context.

The two are related in literature via Aandaal & Meenakshi as others have pointed out.
From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ liberty.nus.edu.sg) on: Thu Aug 7 22:44:03 EDT 1997

Indhaa paarunga Kannan: isaikku Etra paadal
amaikkum pOdhu paadal amaippavargaLukku Thamizh
IlakkaNam konjam leniency kodukkudhu: adhaavadhu
konjam ilakkaNa pizhai irundhaal OK. Indha paattil,
"thOLgaLil" endru pOttaal paattin tune-ukku
sari varaadhu endru "thOLil" endru pOttiruppaanga
endruthaan naan ninaikkiren.

Kanchana:
Tamilvanan was very good at giving punch lines
at the end of a movie vimarsanam. One that I
can remember is for the movie Julie (Hindi):

Mudhal paadhi padam Jolly
Rendaavadhu paathi Theatre Kaali
From: Gopal (@ host-207-53-5-42.atl.bellsouth.net) on: Thu Aug 7 22:55:06 EDT 1997

other examples are
1. .....1000 kaaviyam paadudhu
2. ......irandu manam vEndum
From: Kanchana (@ ww-ty01.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Aug 8 12:37:49 EDT 1997

In the song "Naetru varai nee yaaro naan yaaro", the lines:
Unnai naan paarkkum poadhu
Mannai nee paarkinraayae
Vinnai naan paarkum poadhu
Ennai nee paarkinraayae
seem to be inspired by the following ThirukurraL:
Yaan noakkungaal nilanoakkum noakkaakkaal
Thaannoakki mella nagum.
Are there any more of such literature-inspired songs?
From: Pagalavan Krishnamoorthy (@ mb.cisco.com) on: Fri Aug 8 13:58:04 EDT 1997

To isaipriyan:

The saranam lines in "naRumugaiyE.." are from puRAnAAnOOru. The lines of puRanAAnOOru are as follows:

"yaayum yaayum yaaraagiyarO..
yaanum neeyum evvazhi aRithum..
... ... ... ..
sembulap peyanEEr pOla
anbudai nenjanthaan kalandhanavE."

I am not sure if this was written by Kadiyalur Uruththirang Kannanaar or someone else though.

Infact the last two lines ("sembulappeyanEEr..") were the inspiration for one of Muthulingam's song in "Vellai Roja" - solaippovil maalaiththendral.. is the song. In that first saranam,

"sennilam thEdi thanneer sErndhadhu pOle"
is nothing but "sembulap peyanEER"..
From: Sundar Ramanathan (@ 202.54.10.89) on: Sat Aug 9 07:45:07 EDT 1997

thookkam un kaNgalaith thazuvattumE
amaithi un nenjjil .....

takes inspiration from

let sleep dwell on thine eyes - romeo & juliet - william shakespeare

ps.
i suppose it was done with the best interests of
"sendriduvIr ettu thikkum
kalai selvanggal yaavum
koNarnthinggu sErpIr"
From: Kannan (@ 22.newark-006.nj.dial-access.att.net) on: Sat Aug 9 23:13:41 EDT 1997

To kanchana:
similar to that above song, there is one more song in a Rajini movie, I guess, it's Naan sikappu manithan.
aarambam sariya theriyale,in the middle of the song it goes like this -
"mannaathi mannan ellaam unnai vanthu peN paarkka
aanalum kaNNE unthan kaNNO maN paarka"
From: Kannan (@ 22.newark-006.nj.dial-access.att.net) on: Sat Aug 9 23:58:02 EDT 1997

If you follow the link for Navrang audio tami broadcast from Listening pleasure, you can listen to songs under the topic 'kannadhasan-um kuRalum'. it's really good!!
From: Ricky Muthukumar (@ ) on: Sun Oct 8 07:39:20 EDT 2000

"Thunbam nergayil Yazheduththu nee inbam serka maattaya" This song is from the film "Aur Iravu" The actors were T Nageswara Rao and Lalitha and not Sivaji and Padminni.

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