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Clarification - The Oracle

Topic started by The Oracle (@ 203.127.32.40) on Fri Dec 28 07:25:58 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

For those who said i dont know anything about music, those who said i should go back to TFM history to know about whatz music, i wanna say one thing. My blatant criticism on IRs music made everyone think that im a critic of TFM as a whole, whereas im not.
Iam of great fan of MSV, KV, G.Ramanathan FYI ....

Nobody can infuse life into Barathiyar songs like G. Ramanathan did.
Nobody can match KV when it comes to carnatic based songs.
Nobody can give a blend of hindustani, light music and carnatic, like MSV did.

But i somehow dont find any of these in IR. He sounds monotonous and repetitive. Whatever he did in carnatic & hindustani were already achieved by his predecessors. He was found awfully short when it came to western. His music is too much inclined towards folk and that too not originals...

But , I see such rare brilliance of MSV, GR & KVM again in ARR. He is so talented that he is able to fuse all these qualities into one, and on top of that, western classical and pop music. Kannamoochi yenada ( especially the strains of Sahana ) is the best song based on carnatic. Kaale Mega song from Lagaan , based on Malhar Raag, is one of the best based on Hindustani. He has scored so many songs like these, based on Carnatic and Hindustani and also fusion. No need to mention anything about his prowess when it comes to western and light music. The way he does all these effortlessly is what makes me look upon him with awe....
Just wanna reiterate once again that, Im not against Tamil Film Music as a whole ....

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Responses:

• From: Pras (@ 193.56.241.19) on: Fri Dec 28 07:37:59 EST 2001
  
  Just a simple question :
  
  "But , I see such rare brilliance of MSV, GR & KVM again in ARR"
  WHAT HAVE DONE ARR TO BE COMPARED TO THOSE GENIUSES ???????
  
  
• From: The Oracle (@ 203.127.32.40) on: Fri Dec 28 07:44:17 EST 2001
  
  Just a simple answer :
  
  MSV, KVM, GR are all masters of their own trade.
  
  IR is a jack of all trades but master of none. (except, of course, folk )
  
  ARR, at this age, has become the master of all trades. He doesnt lack in any of the field, be it carnatic, hindustani, light, western classical or pop. He has even good folk music in Taj Mahal, Kilakku Seemaiyile etc....
  
  Is that not enough ???
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.181) on: Fri Dec 28 07:51:58 EST 2001
  
  Oracle:
  Do you need a separate thread for your fight?
  
  Any way, if you are serious enough to discuss about All the Three greats you have mentioned and never drift to ARR-IR fight, then here are my wishes to you. I will definitely contribute constructively ...if I find time.
  
  
• From: Pras (@ 193.56.241.19) on: Fri Dec 28 08:06:28 EST 2001
  
  You are saying the same sentences in all your posts !
  "ARR, at this age, has become the master of all trades."
  But no examples, and no pooves !!!!!!!
  He had made "good" folk music in Taj Mahal and Kilakku Seemaiyile, ok, but it doesn't mean that he is "the master of all trades." !!!!!!! He had also given worthless numbers ....
  He neither got the experience of IR in the music field nor his knowledge !
  You are trying to compare a man who has ruled TFM for many years and who has given and is giving beautiful tunes with a man who is starting in this field !
  maybe we shall talk about that in some few years ...
  
  
• From: Pras (@ 193.56.241.19) on: Fri Dec 28 08:15:06 EST 2001
  
  Common friend,
  The only purpose of Oracle's postings is to make sure that ARR is better than IR. We, IR fans, don't need to prove it !
  And by saying that, i am quite sure that his next post will be "Pras is a fanatic" ....
  
  
• From: The Oracle (@ 203.127.32.40) on: Fri Dec 28 08:18:36 EST 2001
  
  You want proof, huh...
  
  Some of the best Carnatic based songs:
  
  En Veetu thottathil, Mettu podu ( infact many songs from Duet ), Nila Kaaigirathu, Kannodu Kaanbadhellaam, Malargalae, Margazhi Poove, Uyirum Neeyae ( Pavithra ), Sowkiyamaa & Margazhi thingal ( Sangamam )...
  
  For Hindustani, many of his hindi compositions are standing examples...songs from Zubeidaa, Lagaan, Taal etc. & kannaalanae song from Bombay...
  
  For western music & Fusion music, i need not mention. Thiruda Thiruda, Iruvar ( Jazz ) & so many others....
  
  Dont Forget that
  
  Vilayum Payir Mulayileye Theriyum
  
  Oru paanai sottrukku Oru Soru Padham....
  
  
• From: Pras (@ 193.56.241.19) on: Fri Dec 28 08:24:26 EST 2001
  
  how many ? how many songs are you able to give as examples in ARR compositions ??????
  Please give me your e-mail adress, i'll send you 5 or 6 excel files of IR compositions each containing more than 500 songs in those different fields you are talking about !!!
  
  
• From: The Oracle (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Fri Dec 28 08:43:28 EST 2001
  
  krti-mahodadhau patana-kāranam,
  phalam-asāsvatam gati-nirodhakam.
  
  The fruit of action passes.
  But action leaves behind
  Seed of further action
  Leading to an endless ocean of action;
  Not at all to moksha.
  
  
• From: The Oracle (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Fri Dec 28 08:46:16 EST 2001
  
  sorry, wrong thread
  
  
• From: The Oracle (@ 203.127.32.40) on: Fri Dec 28 08:56:50 EST 2001
  
  Pras,
  I just mentioned a few as examples. This is not all... The entire film Andhi Mantharai is lilted with Carnatic music...Its the Quality not the Quantity that is most important...( Thatz why i mentioned, oru paanai sotrukku oru soru padham).
  
  If i wanna listen to Carnatic music i will go to a Carnatic Music Concert. I wont listen to IRs music for the way he presents it. But if u can bring in some innovation with the carnatic base, boy u r great.And is exactly what ARR is doing. He has done so many Raga Maliga's, En veetu thottathil for example. He starts with one raaga, moves on to another and the interlude will be a different raga. All this with western fusion.
  Narumugaiye is one other great song...the list is endless...
  
  And whoz this 202.88.152.159 ... hez posting crap, on my name...
  
  
• From: The Oracle (@ 203.127.32.40) on: Fri Dec 28 09:20:13 EST 2001
  
  Listen to some more beautiful songs like Ennavale, Enge Enathu Kavithai ( KKKK ), Theendai ... etc to get a feel of what i mean.
  
  
  Hope the discussion Continues...I will be back on Monday....cya guyz...
  
  
• From: Pras (@ 193.56.241.19) on: Fri Dec 28 09:57:31 EST 2001
  
  Just a small clarification, Oracle :
  I am not a ARR hater. In fact, you can check out my web site http://www.minnal.fr.fm , you will see a page on IR and a page on ARR ! I just prefer IR's music. By listening to his music, I just forget myself !
  And while speaking about raaga, I do not know enough to answer you. But i am quite sure that some other "tfmpagers" is able to give you examples on that in IR's music.
  
  about your proverbs :
  "Vilayum Payir Mulayileye Theriyum" excatly what happened when IR entered this field !!!
  "Oru paanai sottrukku Oru Soru Padham", paanai nirambi valiyuthu, aanal padham maara villai !!!!! ( listen to latest kaasi ! )
  
  And what do you say about the few last compositions of ARR which were disappointing ????
  Neither carnatic, nor western couldn't help !!!!
  
  "Its the Quality not the Quantity that is most important" ... someone said in the other thread you started that ARR was a genuis becose he used to give chances to new singers, just repeat the sentence to that guy ....
  
  Another important fact i want to mention here : i am always ready to re-listen for example to IR songs of early 80's, but about ARR .... mm .... well, all the songs you mentioned were super hit when they were released, but now, except from one or two, i do not keep listening to them !!!!
  Maestro Zubin Mehta said about IR : "He belongs to the 21st century and perhaps beyond". There will be people in the next generation who will appreciate IR's music !!!!! It is too early to say the give such statement about ARR ! Perhaps, as i said before, in some few years .....
  
  
• From: Pras (@ 193.56.241.19) on: Fri Dec 28 09:58:59 EST 2001
  
  typo :
  It is too early to give such statement about ARR !
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.200.29) on: Fri Dec 28 10:45:27 EST 2001
  
  Whoever this Oracle is .
  This dude needs lot of center of attraction and lot of traffic to his thread it is simple.
  Period.
  Everyone has his or her own right to opinions
  but to generalize it is too much.
  Being a musician myself I can tell you
  IR is no hype,and having watched him compose
  I know it for sure.
  IR has touched all aspects of music be it Jazz,pop,WCM,Carnatic or folk he has touched everything and various aspect of music be it swara betham,harmony,melody or rthym.
  Dont show your aragura knowledge here buddy.
  I am also a great fan of ARR btw.
  When people like Semangudi,VVS,LV Subramanium,Naushad,Lalgudi,DK Pattamal,Zubin Mehta and whole bunch of music deons can appreciate his efforts and laud him
  Thats speaks a whole volume about him and his music.
  So buzz off and chill off dude
  Eat this...
  
  For simple and great chord progression
  listen to 'Raja Raja choan'
  For Jazz and funky music listen to 'Aasi Noorvagai' and 'Tholil Melae'
  Great Guitar intro -'Poove Sembuve'
  Guitar handling in 'Sendhura Poove'
  For Disco listen to his 'Ilamai Edtho'
  For his carnatic brilliances
  listen to
  to song 'Vedham Nee Inaya Nadam Nee' - Ragam Gowli talam chapu
  'Aagya Vennilaye' -Ragam Nata Bhairavi he has used both talams very well for the song thisram and the orchestrations- Chathusram
  For scincilating Bhilahari ragam listen to
  "Koondalile"
  Hindolam he has got so many songs
  listen to 'Aagazhu malar Ada' set to Kanda chapu
  I can give you a whole bunch
  For great western and clasical fusion 'Anthi Mazahi'
  so please think before you write something as stupid this
  I also request fellow users to stop reacting to this kind of thread,these are not based on any common sense but simply make fool out of people by raising some illogical sensational topic
  With this i will end my posting and will not respond to this kind of nonsense
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.200.29) on: Fri Dec 28 10:54:10 EST 2001
  
  BTW
  No MDs like to be compared and it is wrong to do so. Everybody is special in there own way.
  If you dont like somebody or his work keep it to yourself.
  Dont insult artist and their creativity by these kind of below the belt hitting and unfair comments.
  Shame on you
  
  
• From: Peter Irak Raj (@ 12.234.92.96) on: Fri Dec 28 11:44:07 EST 2001
  
  Oracle's discussion sucks. I feel like vomitting on his face everytime he writes something. He thinks he is one of a senior music critic like Subudu. Unfortunately no one is nearby him to tell him the truth that all his postings are so childish. There is no point in any one responding to his postings and coments.. Poor Oracle.. Please check with a good Psychiatric as why your brain is not matured yet.
  
  
• From: Radhai (@ 66.122.62.202) on: Fri Dec 28 13:18:28 EST 2001
  
  Some of the ragas used by IR are very rare ones. Listen to all Moga MuL songs. Absolutely great ragas. The best thing abt IR is whether the hero is Kamal or Ramarajan, the music would be the same. A superstar or a new comer the same quality.
  
  

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