Maestro sidelined Isaignani
Topic started by G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on Tue Dec 26 04:39:11 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
"Maestro Illayaraja sidelined Isaignani Illayaraaja" - I feel this is the reason why ordinary music lovers nowadays say that IR (can) no longer produce(s) good film tunes. I putforth my points as follows:
Late 80s did not have Directors who wanted to get good tunes out of a MD except a few like Maniratnam, KB. late 80s directors just wanted some songs from IR. Bcos any product labeled IR was a sure hit. they did not bother much about fresh tunes. As a MD IR, on his part did justice in doing experimental stuff like fusion in WC and folk even in those films whose directors fall in the above said category.
By that time IR was well set in TFM. He rarely did voulantary fresh tunes because of too much music for lots of films which deserved not that much grand music. This is not a fault of IR at all. A director should convey new stories, fresh situations so that it makes a MD to give fresh tunes. I am not saying IR could not think fresh because even during those times we could get fresh tunes from IR in the movies of Mani, KB and other likes who demanded fresh tunes. Hence IR was underutilised in late 80s and in very early 90s.
Early 90s saw another blow to IR; even those who demanded good tunes from IR changed to ARR. New directors like Shankar who also demand good tunes did not choose IR. But few films like "Mahanadhi" had those "Isaignani" stamp in them (Isaignani i mean brilliant tunes and still could be appreciated by common music lovers).
But the stepping into shoes of Maestro alienated him more from the common music lovers. He still gives brilliant music in films but they are not appreciated that much as from isaignani's. He had only those directors who did not demand fresh tunes; he kept on losing demanders to other MDs; whatever voluantary music he did/does, he did/does them in experimental ways like WC and other high plane stuff things.
We cannot blame him for not giving voluntary things. He has been in the TFM for nearly 25 years and has given music for about 900 films. It is too much to demand a MD to always think fresh tunes on his own without having any good situations. What he keeps on getting is M&B plots. It is highly laudable that he is one of such great MDs who even after such adversities has not dried his thinking.
But on the other hand his thinking shifted to other direction; he turned more classical. Meanwhile other MDs have got good thinking directors to demand fresh tunes. This compounded with the reason mentioned above sidelined Isaignani.
I am a layman in Music. So I know my opinion has flaws. Hence other angle ideas are most welcome. But please...please...dont make it another M&B thread. Sincerly this thread is not at all intended for that.
We had many highly productive threads. Lets make this as one of those good lively debates...
Responses:
- From: Bhagavathar (@ 206.246.172.67)
on: Wed Dec 27 14:58:20 EST 2000
Kuppusamy,
You are right but IR still has good and different tunes. If you listen to his songs in a movie there will be atleast one song stands out to be good one. I listened to "Friends" what a great album I liked three songs in that album. I feel the songs are different from other MD. I want Maestro to stay that course because ardent fans like me will be there to listen and appreciate forever the fusion and experiments he is doing with his music. I am sick and tired of copycats. I feel he is the only MD to give original tunes which is rare nowadays.
- From: peeps (@ 202.54.13.6)
on: Thu Dec 28 00:19:33 EST 2000
good one kupps..
i read somewhere that nowadays IR
experiments a lot in his songs and common(ordinary) music listners couldnt understand that... the flow is not the same like his earlier songs..
particularly in the interludes he tries to experiment and the flow of the song gets affected..
but he has many die hard fans..fans who knows music very well...still follow him..buys every cassette..
i have noticed that people who knows carnatic music appreciates IR's music very much..
as u said the maestro image might have seperated the ordinary music rasigas from him..but no doubt that he is one of the best composers india have ever produced..
composing songs for the same kind of situation
thousands of times is a very very boring job really..
in IR's music(for that matter all MD's) there was a flow from start to end and great interludes and
preludes...so there was a automatic pattern set in the listners mind about film songs..
ARR entered at this point with his songs that had a lot of surprises..
surprises in the sense unexpected usage of instruments,change of the tune completely etc.etc..and people always like "changes" and he created a huge impact..
but my feeling is that this trend will also change one day and some other thing comes after that
we cant say that IR has fallen completely..he never composes for big directors nowadays(except fazil,balumahendra,kamal..etc)..that may be one reason why his great songs never became popular..
he might have got hurt by this omision and not fully enthusiastic while composing IMVHO..
i personally feel that he can compose in any style
but he wants to follow certain rules in composing..
mr.subbudu in one of his reviews said that rahman dont have any inhibition to venture in to different forms of music and he doesnt follow certain conventions..
bur IR have some predetermined rules which he follows when composing songs..."adi shankarar woodlands'il(hotel) sendru eppidi sapiduvar" was the comment made by him on IR..
- From: peeps (@ 202.54.13.6)
on: Thu Dec 28 00:23:07 EST 2000
good one kupps..
i read somewhere that nowadays IR
experiments a lot in his songs and common(ordinary) music listners couldnt understand that... the flow is not the same like his earlier songs..
particularly in the interludes he tries to experiment and the flow of the song gets affected..
but he has many die hard fans..fans who knows music very well...still follow him..buys every cassette..
i have noticed that people who knows carnatic music appreciates IR's music very much..
as u said the maestro image might have seperated the ordinary music rasigas from him..but no doubt that he is one of the best composers india have ever produced..
composing songs for the same kind of situation
thousands of times is a very very boring job really..
in IR's music(for that matter all MD's) there was a flow from start to end and great interludes and
preludes...so there was a automatic pattern set in the listners mind about film songs..
ARR entered at this point with his songs that had a lot of surprises..
surprises in the sense unexpected usage of instruments,change of the tune completely etc.etc..and people always like "changes" and he created a huge impact..
but my feeling is that this trend will also change one day and some other thing comes after that
we cant say that IR has fallen completely..he never composes for big directors nowadays(except fazil,balumahendra,kamal..etc)..that may be one reason why his great songs never became popular..
he might have got hurt by this omision and not fully enthusiastic while composing IMVHO..
i personally feel that he can compose in any style
but he wants to follow certain rules in composing..
mr.subbudu in one of his reviews said that rahman dont have any inhibition to venture in to different forms of music and he doesnt follow certain conventions..
bur IR have some predetermined rules which he follows when composing songs..."adi shankarar woodlands'il(hotel) sendru eppidi sapiduvar" was the comment made by him on IR..
- From: peeps (@ 202.54.13.6)
on: Thu Dec 28 01:54:44 EST 2000
sorry for double posting
- From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.130)
on: Thu Dec 28 03:07:09 EST 2000
yes peeps...
If we see raaja's perspective and music-knowledged-IR-fans' perspective we can say one thing..."earlier also Raaja was doing high funda stuff like gruhabedham, fugue etc etc and now also he is doing them and infact he is doing more intricate stuff also so his tunes are infact raising and not diminishing". That is why Music Knowledged IR fans and HCIRFans claim that, even now IR is giving great music. We just cannot phoo-phoo it saying that it is only due to obsession.
Whereas others feel that IR lost his touch. They may feel because IR's experimentations has gone beyond their level of appreciation and hence they feel he lost his touch.
As a layman IR fan i feel he shud not have given symphony at all (oru poraamai thaan...indha maestro vandhu yenga isaignani-yai ammikkivittare yendru) and as a IR fan who learns info (from this forum) about IR's music intricacies, i am very proud of his effort called symphony.
'mathhalathukku rendu pakkam idi' yenbadhu pola yenna maadiri rendu vagayaana rasikargaLidam IR nalla maatikittu muzhikkaraar.
idhu thaan 'pazhuthha marathil kalladi' yenbadho?
- From: STS (@ 65.3.195.189)
on: Thu Dec 28 22:05:53 EST 2000
Ok/Good/Bad
IR is a (original) MD who simply goes his way (whether we like it or not). He composed whatever he felt like before and composes whatever he feels like now. The only difference is he gave what public wanted before and now he gives what he wants to give. And I warmly welcome a MD doing some research. Else they are gone with same kind of duet songs and sad songs. (I see about 3 or 4 common situations in a film to compose a variety music. Rest is upto the MD with his imagination to come up with a good tune). With this limited range of situations, it is better to try experimenting.
I don't see any flaw in IR's music (excepting that it is original and not tested elsewhere of
the world). It has become like Kamal's movie (different but risky). Added to that is IR's preset rules. In our opinion it is preset rules but for IR it may be 'ethics'. Gangai Amaran in one interview said these days music is very different and one reason for that is "added bass sound" (by bass guitar and drums which dominate in songs and has big impact on a person). They are simply adopted from Western albums. We substitute drums + tabla where only tabla is needed. This silly technique was widely used
in North for remixing old popular songs (this beats were called as Zanker beats). It has become an industry standard now which IR avoids this till date. For an example in 'Minsaara Kannaa' song of Padaiyappa, you hear drums and full bass throught the song. Mridangam is sort of extra instrument. IR would have used as the main instrument for that song and avoided drums and may be minimal use of bass. If Sidhu Bhairavi is released today, it would be a failure because our people are no more sensitive to that kind of sensitive, melodious songs! IR thinks it is unethical to dominate with sounds in a song
and hence avoids it and you feel less impact when you hear it first.
Yes, IR's experimentation are difficult to digest initially but we will be used to it. My question is why IR chooses western classical to do experimentation (for BGM western classical may be good)? Why not do some research with our own carnatic or hindustani? (I am another layman and please pardon my ignorance.) Like composing tunes by fusing 2 or more songs or changing from one raaga to another or something like that. (Carnatic world may not accept that but that should not stop experimenting!).
ARR initially gave western kind pop album like songs and they were hits because it was different and was a big change for the public. Now if you happen to listen to the last few albums (KKKK, Alaipayudhe, Rhythm, Thenaali), I don't think they accepted that widely as his initial days. Because people are used to his formulae/trend (added to that are SAR, Deva now HJ) and may not receive that enthusiastic response as they were before. (They may still be rated as chart toppers and there are many possible reasons associated
with that like top heroes (Rajini/Kamal), directors (MR, Shanker, KB, BR) etc.,)
IR changes the flow of tune...
It is not new to IR and he does it from the beginning.
ARR ventures into different kinds of music...
because he does not have anything of his own and he has to venture out to get inspiration. Certainly adi shankarar will not goto woodlands because he can't digest that food. (And Subbudu knows that well).
- From: S T S (@ 65.3.195.189)
on: Thu Dec 28 22:07:09 EST 2000
Sorry about 'Ok/Good/Bad'. I should have deleted that ! :)
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