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Maragathamani Interview

Topic started by cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on Sat Sep 28 06:44:28 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Sour point of the interview :

http://www.screenindia.com/20020927/mcov.html

Q- "....a lot of the damage to current Hindi film music — both in musical content and picturisations, like the 100 extras — has been due to South Indian film influence?

A - It is unfortunate, but I agree with you wholeheartedly. At the same time, please do not count me as one of the responsible parties.

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Responses:

• From: Vj (@ 61.11.80.33) on: Sun Sep 29 03:24:15 EDT 2002
  
  ..as if HFM got spoilt by SFM :-))
  
  vittu thalluppa.... cinemavula appappo indha maadhiri comedy ellaam sagajamappaaa.. :-))
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Sep 29 10:50:02 EDT 2002
  
  Cosmician -
  Thank you for the link. Maragadhamani's (I believe this to be his "real" name?) score for Azhagan was quietly beautiful, like the first breeze at dawn. Mazhaiyum Neeye was/is one of my cherished SPB solos. I also found the duet "Sangitha Swarangal" to be melifluous and memorable.
  Now some "friendly fire":
  When music directors gloss "off-key" singing (Lucky Ali bit in the interview) as "natural" I have some ideological differences. To begin with, "singing" (as presented in Indian cinema, with lip-sync and gyrations) is in itself rather "unnatural." How many in your own neighbourhood run around trees belting "Anbe Anbe" at the first touch of love? And if they did, wouldn't we promptly confine them to the nearest psychiatric ward? So, to use the "natural" angle to justify an artifice that is out-and-out "artificial" is nothing short of an aesthetic cop-out. Why not have the actors sing the songs? Would that not be "natural" personally and philosophically? When everything in commercial cinema is studied and readied for the box-office, and the audio soundtrack is part of this money-grab -why make it out to be something it is not?
  Songs, if they are to have repeat listening value, ought to be done right. Nobody buys a film album to discover the natural "off-key" moments, let alone celebrate them. To prop up new singers that are short on pitch and long on image is one thing. To rationalise their limited and "besur" capabilities as "natural" is...well, just sloppy rationalisation. It is a case for the prosecution.
  
  
• From: mottai mutta kozhi (@ 152.163.189.230) on: Sun Sep 29 17:35:22 EDT 2002
  
  Basically a m.m. stands for Moolayilatha Muck Kreem.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on: Sun Sep 29 20:05:53 EDT 2002
  
  Accepting off-key singers as natural is just another buttress to medocrity. I still wonder how those great singers like thyagaraja bhagavathar, TRM, Seekaazi sang with limited facilites and maximum perfection. If they had slipped once, they had to record it again from the scratch unlike this digital age where u can selct and punch only those portions which ae offkey.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.51.203.216) on: Sun Sep 29 20:45:40 EDT 2002
  
  Its funny how every HFM composer talks about Madanmohan being their favourite composer yet their songs dont have even a hundreth of the melodic content that MM's songs possessed. Kreem blaming "techno influence" in the south seems to be a case of sour grapes of having been denied by ARR both in the south and north. Not to deny that TFM's standards are pretty bad these days but HFM has been that way for the last 15-20 yrs. As for setting a trend composers from the south have called the shots starting from the late seventies.
  
  I like a few of Maragathamani's songs but I am also disappointed with his stance here (and also his comments like: "I know more about Hindi songs than any composer, lyricist and singer in the South.
  ") and more so after hearing his insipid songs from Sur.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Mon Sep 30 02:18:38 EDT 2002
  
  Naaz...Vijay....
  
  I too liked some of MM's melodies in "Azhagan" and a few of his other films....but once beyond the first pallavi or charanam...his arrangements and orchestrations are very weak and this shows that he's not really working hard.
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Mon Sep 30 11:32:45 EDT 2002
  
  Cosmician
  "but once beyond the first pallavi or charanam...his arrangements and orchestrations are very weak " ...........This is exactly how I feel about his music. There are very few songs of his where every portion of the song is good (songs in the telugu movies Seetharamayyagari manavaraalu, aapathbaandhavudu, subhasankalpam are good ones to remember). Usually he starts of beautifully and then the charanams sink into some unknown valley and start wandering thereafter.
  
  Naaz
  I could help laughing reading your post. Good one!
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Sep 30 12:52:42 EDT 2002
  
  Kaumudi -
  I've really had it with this "natural" angle, esp. when it is used to justify consistently bad singing. I rage when people take Language (any) for granted, particularly singers and MDs. "Natural" is one recent all-encompassing word in TFM/HFM that is trotted out to bolster mispronunciations, misplaced metrical stresses, non-interchangeable phonetics (ha when it should be ka, hey (as in "how you doin'?" ) when it should be Hai, Me (so sheep!) when it ought to be Mai), alien syntax transitions (yeah straight out of Star Trek, you think!)...
  
  Natural is for Oils and Soaps.
  
  Ironically, "natural" also means "original" - and so "uncorrupted." But that's the last thing one can say about these newbe singers and MDs.
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 65.241.71.2) on: Mon Sep 30 12:56:09 EDT 2002
  
  This is the standard of MD's we get now adays. One says mispronounciation is OK people can forgive if tune is OK, one says off-key singers are OK, it is natural. These are most successful MD's and people run behind them
  
  Whom should we blame?
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Sep 30 13:07:34 EDT 2002
  
  NCR -
  In one word: Vidhi.
  
  
• From: sarat (@ 128.192.181.155) on: Mon Sep 30 13:21:56 EDT 2002
  
  check out the song "Nesthama" from the telugu movie "Lahiri Lahiri...something". music is by Maragathamani and its sung by Sonu Nigam
  
  Direct lift from "Winds of Change" by the Scorpions.
  The only way he can justify himself singing is by calling Lucky Ali naturally 'Besur'.
  and i think the MD who listens to most hindi songs in the south is a guy called Jai who has scored music for the movie +2. he is too much. copying from Anu Malik and Raam Laxman requires spcial skills.
  
  
  
• From: Peter Pan (@ 170.140.253.49) on: Mon Sep 30 15:08:21 EDT 2002
  
  Rajiv Vijayakar is a rabid anti-South journalist. You should read some of his reviews of Annu Malik, as if he was God's gift to Indian Cinema.
  
  His question is an obvious attempt to degrade South Indian music composers. According to him Hindi music is 'COSMOPOLITAN' and others are well, 'southie'. According to him all Yash Chopra assembly line songs (a la Vikraman's Tamil songs.. no matter who the composer is, they all have the same tune) are 'cosmopolitan' and people like ARR give Southie numbers! Such conceit!
  
  Naaz, perhaps you could write to Screen. Let the editor get to hear our points of view..
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Mon Sep 30 15:31:52 EDT 2002
  
  Even the humming before "tu mile dil khile" from Criminal was a direct lift from an Enigma song although overall its probably his best song in HFM.
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Mon Sep 30 15:35:07 EDT 2002
  
  Naaz
  "Natural is for Oils and Soaps" .....I am still laughing writing this. where do you get these funny ideas...
  
  I second Peter Pan, you should take his/her advice and write to Screen on all our behalf. What say you?
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Sep 30 16:33:23 EDT 2002
  
  I am seriously (yes, pun intended) thinking of a piece called "Follywood Tragedies" (and I hope that festival panel gives me more ammo for this blast-off.) The essay/critique with be about the last decade(ance) in Indian Cinema, particularly the deterioration in music, plot, presentation, and HYPE.
  I doubt Screen will go with it (They are so part of the establishment.)
  Thanks for your support though. It is important for me to know that this "disgust" is not singular!
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Sep 30 17:04:27 EDT 2002
  
  Peter Pan -
  
  While I fully agree with your sentiment of a nascent "anti-southism" in northern film journalism (at least in english language glossies),to be fair, I have to add this Hook:-) --
  
  Southerners have not only not voiced any critical resistance to this bigotry (in their own language journals,) but have (in)directly also supported this "come and get us" trend by making Bombay seem like some Mecca of Artistic Achievement and Glory. (cf. check out the ARR/IR threads and what the terms are for "success.")
  
  Not so long ago, when I pointed this out in another thread, I was asked to take my good-will and concern to my own "language" speakers, as Southerners (Tamizhars to be specific)I was told, emphatically, were quite capable of taking care of their"own"artistes/singers/MDs/language/heritage/etc.
  I acquiesced.
  
  Would you be able to point me to any such care-taking "proof" in recent times? Have I missed any such resistance in tamizh/telegu film journals?
  That would greatly help.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Tue Oct 1 00:22:04 EDT 2002
  
  Naaz...with powerful writers like you...together as a group we can tackle such things. Like Peter Pan said, we have to write to screen or at least start a counter-propaganda...I only hope that it it the right thing to do.
  
  
• From: Peter Pan (@ 170.140.250.83) on: Tue Oct 1 09:59:14 EDT 2002
  
  Naaz,
  You're right. I haven't come across any resistance from the South Indian artists ever.
  I often feel angry when mediocre directors like Satish Kaushik walk away with copying scenes frame-by-frame of movies originally written and directed by Tamil & Telugu directors, and not giving due credit!
  The directors on their part are perhaps happy with the money that the hindi producer is giving (usually more than what they were paid for the original movie) and are HAPPY! No complaints!
  
  The ones who want to show they are of a 'different mould' say things like, "I have lived with this baby sometime now. I have to move on.. I don't care what happens to it" (a recent case is Bala's much-acclaimed 'Sethu', which is being copied in Hindi by the same Satish Kaushik, *ing Salman Khan in the lead!!!
  
  What usually happens in these remakes is that they add scenes that supposedly reflect North Indian values, and if the film is bad, then Hindi critics (who have no idea about films other than the ones they are invited to, with free cocktails and dinner, and freebies) shift the blame to the 'garish Southie original'.
  
  These days they are called official remakes (since they pay for the story, but never acknowledge screenplay, songs etc.).. But not long ago, when Mani Ratnam's classic hits like 'Mouna Ragam', 'Idayathai Thirudathey', 'Agni Nakshatiram' were copied without his consent by 3rd grade movie-makers in the 80's (one common factor in all 3: One Aneez Bazmi took the credit for writing the story & screenplay), Mani Ratnam never protested...
  Even as he became a name to reckon with, when some small-time Hindi producers wanted to cash in on his popularity, he readily agreed.. only to see that they have mercilessly replaced songs (like in 'Velu Nayakan' they replaced the IR classic, 'Nee Oru kAdhal Sangeetam' by a Kumar Sanu song composed by some obscure amateur composer called Dinesh) and deleted songs like 'Sundari kannAl' in 'DalPati' and topped it all with some awful dubbing! Mani never ever protested.
  
  I firmly believe that Hindi cinema has improved technically only because of its South Indian influence. Almost 70% of films made there are copies (official or unofficials) of Southie flicks. Dilip Kumar and Sanjeev Kumar basked in the glory of many a Shivaji film... People like Anil Kapoor owe their careers to Bhagyaraj, Kamal Haasan and of late, lot of Telugu & Tamil directors. Anand-Milind owe their career to ILayaraaja. Comedian Mahmood who modeled his entire career from Nagesh's, copying almost all of his big hits into Hindi, never acknowledged him anywhere. And he had the guts to mock Madrasis and Hyderabadis in almost all of his movies. All leading cinematographers out there are from the South. Editors like A. Muthu have been around for decades now. Hindi film music scene has been largely influenced by the sweeping changes in sound brought about by the likes of ARR and Sandeep Chowta. Their music industry is dominated by leading singers like Kavita Krishnamuthy, Hariharan, Shankar Mahadevan, Chitra, Mahalakshmi Iyer and Vasundhara Das.
  
  Hariharan took the pain of unlearning Carnatic music and learn the nuances of Hindustani music and Ghazals, taking an extensive urdu course to get his diction right, he did so because only then will he be accepted by the Northies. If only he bothered to put in one fourth of that effort into his now-forgotten mother tongue Tamil, he would have contributed in a big way to TFM. But when the MDs and the masses don't have any complaints about poor diction, why would he?
  
  People like him and Shankar (and MaragatahmaNi is no exception) know very well that their survival out there will be affected if they ever talk of a KVMahadevan, Ghantasala, MSV or IR being their favorites.
  
  When it comes to the South, the only positive point they keep harping about is how professional they are, how punctual they are. Never is there any acknowledgement of the industry's other larger contributions.
  Yet, not a single successful Southerner speaks out when they degrade their turf. There's no self-respect!
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Tue Oct 1 10:56:59 EDT 2002
  
  Peter Pan
  How true! I have personally experienced dismay and shown my irritation when I was mocked at just because I came up with south musicians as my favorite artists. So true, what you have said.
  
  

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