Dr.SPB , DR.KJY, M.Rafi & Kishore Kumar, who is the greatest out of these?

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Dr.SPB , DR.KJY, M.Rafi & Kishore Kumar, who is the greatest out of these? Dr.SPB , DR.KJY, M.Rafi & Kishore Kumar, who is the greatest out of these?

Topic started by Udit naryan, harihara & Kumar sanu (@ 195.92.67.65) on Fri Jan 10 12:56:43 EST 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I know it is a touch one, it is very close between Rafi & SPB, my opinion is as follows

1) SPB
2) Rafi
3) KJY
4) KK

how about yours??

Responses:

From: x (@ 209.47.143.226) on: Fri Jan 10 14:03:57 EST 2003

Another thread for the same old fight??

Could you pl remove Kumar sanu from the list please?? It's an insult for the other 3.
From: Maverick (@ 192.128.134.68) on: Fri Jan 10 14:17:22 EST 2003

SPB best in Tamizh
KJY best in Malayalam
So let the Northies /HFM fans decide amongst Rafi and KK.

Job done.
From: poda (@ 205.188.208.37) on: Fri Jan 10 17:01:10 EST 2003

Gandhi Thatha
From: Prabhu (@ 203.124.139.195) on: Sat Jan 11 01:48:56 EST 2003

205.188 aka "Cliffappa Strategy Poduran":
Puriyalai...pls elaborate :)
From: Anwar (@ 195.92.198.75) on: Sat Jan 11 10:00:06 EST 2003

Maverick;

good one man, keep it up .:))

well, I feel that SPB was/is the best in Tamil/telugu/karntaka, SPB had many many singer competing againts him than any other singer in India, KJY although ruled mallu for 40 odd years, he only had PJC/MG.Sreekumar as rivalry, while Rafi only had Kishore , mahendra kapoor.

so my vote goes for SPB
From: Are Yaar (@ 203.115.31.67) on: Mon Jan 13 02:33:10 EST 2003

With NOM to other singers, I feel that SPB is the most versatile and the best CINE PLAYBACK singer ever....yes Rafi is also so..but versatality is the one which SPB beats everybody left right and centre. Not only in singing..he is a complete cinema person..He acts, produces, dubs, composes and does what not...but every thing pertaining to cinema...But if you take KJY...there is no one close to one in excelling both in cinema and classical form of music...

In the same way we can say about Kishore and Rafi..but overall in purely cinema point of view and nothing else...SPM is the one who can sing "Dhorakuna" and "O Podu" in same breath making each one liked the most by the respective fans of the music.

I very much agree with marverick's list though.
From: Raghu (@ 217.158.120.226) on: Mon Jan 13 05:18:26 EST 2003

Are Yaar;

Good posting
From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Mon Jan 13 06:44:31 EST 2003

Are Yaar

" SPM is the one who can sing "Dhorakuna" and "O Podu"

Who? S P Mahendran or S P Muthuraman?

Ford once said,"Any colour for the car is ok as long as it is black" - For Raghu any poll is ok as long as the winner is SPB...Right?

When you have to vote for singers singing more than 2 languages ..it has to be SPB all the way.But if you choose languagewise then these men defined "Play back singing" -

Tamil - TMS
Telugu -ghantasala
Malayalam-KJY
Kannada -PBS
Hindi -Kishore

Rafi,Manna dey..Good singers but......
From: Raghu (@ 217.158.120.226) on: Mon Jan 13 07:50:03 EST 2003

OISG;

>>Rafi,Manna dey..Good singers but...... <<

oh dear, r saying by any chance that kishore is better than rafi ??
From: Venki (@ 192.127.94.7) on: Mon Jan 13 07:59:50 EST 2003

ooooooooooooo ... OISG Tamil - TMS??????
From: st (@ 212.153.190.3) on: Mon Jan 13 08:56:57 EST 2003

Guys can u plz leave Rafi/KK out of this. You can keep your scope limited to south india and keep shouting SPB is the best. Its irritating (my blood actually boils ) when you put KK/Rafi below him.
SPB lacked sophistication in his voice for a very long part of his initial career (He should be thankful to IR and lot others that he finally managed to bring it). plz rememeber that when he wasnt a main singer in TFM he was already singing a lot in kannada films and there are many songs that i bet given a second chance he would like to dub again. Rafi was giving songs like "Dil ka bhavar karey pukaar" in an era much before that.More than 40 years later i.e. today you still cant improvise or better on the singing aspect of that song.
And with KK, well i have heard the tribute to RD by SPB. The title or opening music for that program was used from "Kora Kagaz thaa ye man mera", with SP redoing the kishore stuff, just before the start of the song. And to put it gently SPB sounded very soft.
And he also sang Rafis "Aaja aaja". Rafi goes berseck in that song,.. creating such a mood he almost entices a non dancer into dancing in that song. SPBs was very controlled, as if he was singing "aairpaadi maaligail".
Rafi till date is the only singer, who was comfortable on most sequences (Verstality). If you get hold of a song where SPB did his part of "Allah tero naam" you will discover at least one sequence SPB is not at all comfortable with(actually sounds novice in that). And people here just keep harping about scales. In half an hour a genius like IR can create sequences which SPB would not be very comfortable with (and i am not talking about classical music). Lata/Rafi would play with most such sequences.
From: Raghu (@ 217.158.120.226) on: Mon Jan 13 09:53:28 EST 2003

Dear ST;

>>In half an hour a genius like IR can create sequences which SPB would not be very comfortable with (and i am not talking about classical music).>. SPBs was very controlled, as if he was singing "aairpaadi maaligail".
<<

that is what you call shruthi control, dear friend :))
From: Raghu (@ 217.158.120.226) on: Mon Jan 13 09:55:30 EST 2003

ST;

If IR is a genius in Composing, then SPB is clearly a genius in Play back singing!
From: Sam (@ 208.134.115.240) on: Mon Jan 13 10:16:04 EST 2003

Best-Rafi
Good-Kishore Kumar
Average-SPB
Below Average-KJY

And thatz FINAL!
End of discussion.
From: Raghu (@ 217.158.120.226) on: Mon Jan 13 11:41:43 EST 2003

Sam;

>>Good-Kishore Kumar
Average-SPB
Below Average-KJY
<<

wow, good analysis, we need ppl like u so, ppl like Deva/sirpy/ can survive, KJY below average, r u nuts?, sighs :((
From: x (@ 209.47.143.226) on: Mon Jan 13 12:31:02 EST 2003

raghu,
yes he is nutz. He constantly proves that in every thread... as somebody said before in some other thread..... just ignore him....
From: Sam (@ 208.134.115.240) on: Mon Jan 13 12:57:11 EST 2003

x:

Bite me.
From: avr (@ 132.216.68.201) on: Mon Jan 13 14:42:27 EST 2003

Kishore Kumar was the greatest curse on Hindi film industry, IMO. The thing about glorification of mediocrity (that Vani Jayaram refers to quite often these days in every interview of hers) began in HFM with the advent of Kishore Kumar and his combination with RDB. KK and RDB performed for the gallery and brought in emphasis on cheap music, with less importance to lyrics and melody and spoilt HFM. RDB's blatant plagiarism was another thing. Kishore Kumar in his concerts had the terrible habit of rolling on the ground, kicking his legs in the air and in general acting like a donkey (and monkey). Thanks to Kishore, use of classical and semiclassical music in Hindi films went for a sixer. And that trend has stuck on and is irreversible now.

A veteran MD once re-named Kishore Kumar as SHOR Kumar (SHOR in Hindi means noise). I agree with that veteran.
From: pathan (@ 204.114.53.179) on: Mon Jan 13 17:36:59 EST 2003

Sam must be having his ears below neck somewhere. Otherwise one cannot comment on KJY so badly
From: Sam (@ 208.134.115.240) on: Mon Jan 13 17:44:22 EST 2003

Kishore Kumar is a great singer. U south indians r jealous.
From: Jana (@ 202.88.152.184) on: Tue Jan 14 00:51:35 EST 2003

I agree with st on one thing. Leave KK and Rafi out as most guys here arent aware of them nor their great songs.
Also I think all four are great singers and such poor comparison is not fair to them or their talents.
From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Tue Jan 14 02:06:22 EST 2003

SPB lacked spohitication ....?

Thats straight out of Mr.Rabri s mouth.When are you lallus gonna get out of your Single-BHK 475 Sq ft mentality and grow up like us.

Kishore/Rafi......imagine them singing the traditional languages like Tamil,Telugu,Malayalam which have better literature,history than Hindi.If they get "ZHA" "La" right ,which they wont,i would take Pal Kavadi to Patna.

If SPB does not get a footpath language like Hindi spoken by millions of Kai Naat -(Anguta Chaap in your language )cases north of Vindyas,right,god is kind.
From: Are Yaar (@ 203.115.31.67) on: Tue Jan 14 02:42:01 EST 2003

OISG:
Its not SPM its SPB..sorry for the spelling mistake
From: Jana (@ 202.88.152.184) on: Tue Jan 14 04:03:12 EST 2003

OISG,
Although I too dont agree like you that 'SPB lacks sophistication' just because south indian languages have few characters like "ZHA' does it make it better language?? That would make chinese and mandarin great languages.

You talk about fools like Laloos and Rabris but you too sound an equivalent of them from the south of Vindiyas.
From: Raghu (@ 217.158.120.226) on: Tue Jan 14 04:35:04 EST 2003

Jana;

OISG never said 'SPB lacks sophistication' .
he/she was just replying to comment made by st (@ 212.153.190.3), it is ST who said SPB lacks sophistication.

as u can see from ST's remarks about SPB, it's better to ignore him, as he knows nothing about music!
From: Raghu (@ 217.158.120.226) on: Tue Jan 14 04:43:59 EST 2003

SPB had more exposure to play back singing than the rest (37 years) of pure play back singing, although KJY has been around for 42 years, during his later years ie, after 90's, he has been mainly concentrating on carnatic concerts.

Rafi was around for about 25 years, KK has been around for more or less 20 years, what I am trying to say is experience is very vital in everything, so i feel SPB has the most experience in play back singing.
From: x (@ 156.153.254.41) on: Tue Jan 14 05:08:02 EST 2003

SPB
From: Raghu (@ 217.158.120.226) on: Tue Jan 14 05:44:12 EST 2003

SPB means, SuPer play Back singer :)
From: st (@ 212.153.190.3) on: Tue Jan 14 08:40:37 EST 2003

I needed to prick you in the right place...thats why the previous posting.U have to understand that even others have been getting pricked and hurt by the constant BS that u people keep churning about KK/Rafi or other north indian artists. And when someone gives u back ur own medicine then u say he doesnt know a thing about music.

Dealing with mad people in this forum has had its effect thats why the posting before,otherwise my postings have always been balanced.

Also understand that that people who speak good about north indian artists need not necessarirly be from that part. Believe me they are hardly bothered about this debate of urs. It is we who are biased not they.

Anyway i didnt say, SPB "lacks" sophistication, i said he lacked it initially. I still stand by that statement. U can go and listen to many of his old kannada songs and u will then know. Today you will feel he could have done the same songs better. I am not talking about the language part.The singing is strictly limited to a particular period.Even Rafi started raw in (Sehegal style) but then he started giving songs that as i said earlier cant be/havent been bettered in singing aspects even today.

Raghu, thanks for the tip though. Next time when i cant sing a fast song, i will sing it soft and say that is shruti control (U r a genius!!). Let me now think what shruti control i can apply to "Summer of 69".
I guess u know more about music than SPB/KJY who somehow seem to feel Rafi was the best. And probably KJY hasnt heard SPB bcos he seemed to think Rafi is the most verstaile singer ever.

Some singers and some veteran MDs make their presence known only by badmouthing successful people. Still worse is people who stand by them.KK never claimed to be a classical singer, but he was and would remain a gaint in playback singing. I have seen great singers losing breath and beat singing his songs on stage.Jugde the singing of KK and not his antics. I guess u dont (mis)judge kamal's acting by the number of girl friends he has. For all the crap u people put up, there is hardly any instance where song of KK/Rafi redone by others has lived up to anywhere near the original.
From: sundaresan (@ 61.11.75.120) on: Tue Jan 14 09:06:05 EST 2003

ST

You are free to voice your opinion , but it should not be lop sided.

first of all you are just comparing a performance
in a light music concert with singing in the recording studio. Sometimes the outside performance does not measure up to the standard of a singer. this can happen to any play back singer however good he /she may be. I wish you listened to SPB's concert in SS music channel which awas telecast on the new year day. It was so amazing to see-rather listen to SPB singing at his best even after 34 years of playback singing-that too a for man who has sung 35000 songs being to able sing some high octave numbers with ease especially 'mun paniya'. Even Rafi lost his
timbre & resonance of his great voice towards the end 70's -Infact SPB is 56 or 57 now and Rafi was only 54 when he passed away. But SPB's voice has improved over time and still he produces some stunningly high octave portion like 'Kaytaen' (From amarkaLam) where he ends the song .

I am a great fan of both Rafi & SPB. each has a distinct style & voice. While Rafi's ability maintain his voice frequency at high pitches is inimitable, SPB's ability to modulate, sing Brikkas and gamakas with greatest ease is unparallel.In expressing feelings or emote or laugh in a song SPB is as good as Rafi was.

I wont agree that singing for IR improved his voice.IR utilized his natural talent to the fullest extent so was KVM or MSV.
Right from his first songs like iyaRkai ennum or ayiram nilavae vaa- he carved a place for himself in TFM.

Why don't you visualize Rafi or KK singing SPB's songs like from PayaNangaL mudivathillai, Kadhal oviyum ,ShankarabaraNam,Kizhakku Vaasal. Keladi KanmaNi,NizhalgaL, Duet etc.,

Do not talk one way around. Infact Naushad considers SPB as one of the greatest ever
and has talked very high about his ability to
sing difficult song without rehearsal & his ability to improvise. Do you think Naushad has commented about many singers -NO- with the exception of Rafi.

Over an interview in Nayaandi darbar SPB sang a portion from the song Shankara nadha sareera
the charanam ending in the crescendo "aananada
.... tada vanga" and he cascaded so beautifully which remains etched in my mind. This is as difficult as Baiju bawra number Oh duniya ke rakhwale.

Also SPB's adherence to Shruthi is something very few caranatic vocalists have /had. he can traverse ebbs and highs never once he faltered in his Shruthi went awry even by a micro unit.

We tamilians are so magnanimous that we pardon/tolerate worst pronunciations and some times lousy voices like Sukwinder singh. I can bet SPB's hindi is not as bad as a Udit narayan's tamil pronunciation. SPB has a flair for languages
that he could sing in Tamil and kannda with a
NEAR PERFECT pronuncaition.

Do not write messages with out sense

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