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IR vs ARR -- Imagining how would IR Compose a ARR Song and Viceversa

Topic started by Dorairaj Pichaiyan (@ gateway7.ey.com) on Fri Oct 29 12:13:19 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I use to wonder when I listen to an IR's songs like "Kalaivaniyee... from sindhubairav", how would ARR compose the same song. The answer I got
myself is probably the "Marghazi Thingal Allava...song from Sangaman." Similarly when I think of "Ore Naal Unai Naan Nelavil Parthadhu.." song of IR, I think of "Vennilave Vennillave...from Minsara Kanavu" of IR

But I feel that there are some unique songs like "Sorgame Enrallum...", "Poomalaye...Thollserava.." "SonthamVandhadhu..Vandhadhu...". "Mannil Entha...", "PovOma...Urkolam..." which I find it very difficult to find an equivalent or a derivative of it by ARR. On similar grounds, I find it difficult to find an IR equivalent of "Malargalee...Malargalee...", "Putham Pudhu Boome Vendum...", "Thee...Thee. Thithikum Tee" (esp the style of his composing mixing Carnatic Swarams in Pop music).

I would like your opinions and view to felicitate this thread.

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Responses:

• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.214) on: Fri Oct 29 12:28:00 EDT 1999
  
  Seems to be a thread for positive discusions :-)
  
  IMO IR's Equivalent of :
  
  MalargaLae Malargalae = Ninnukori varnam
  Puththam pudhu bhoomi vENdum = Ninaikkindra paadhayil
  thee thiththikkum thee = ?
  
  ARR's equivalent of :
  sorgame endraalum = oruvan oruvan mudhalaaLi
  pOvoma oorkOlam = kurukku chiruththavaLe
  
  maththa IR songs kku equivalent ARR kaNdu pidikkaradhu romba kashtam :-)
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.214) on: Fri Oct 29 12:29:00 EDT 1999
  
  infact
  
  "Puththam puthu bhoomi vENdum" goes more with "mannan koorai chElai"
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Fri Oct 29 12:41:01 EDT 1999
  
  MS,
  I like your comparison between Malargalee and Ninukori varnam. Perfect match.
  
  Lets see if someone comes for a match for IR's
  "Malayil Yaaro Mandhodu PEsa..."
  
  
• From: Praveen (@ po.isr.umd.edu) on: Fri Oct 29 13:51:43 EDT 1999
  
  One to one mapping will be difficult due to obvious reasons
  
  
• From: Swami (@ proxy2.ericy.com) on: Fri Oct 29 13:53:08 EDT 1999
  
  IR's tune + ARR rythm arrangement => Great marketable combo. People would love it momentarily. But I feel it won't be lasting though.
  
  //Swami.
  
  
  
• From: bb (@ franck.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Fri Oct 29 14:52:31 EDT 1999
  
  peNNalla peNNalla oodhaappoo <--> ennavendru solvadhammaa vanjiyavaL pErazhagai
  both songs are similar in content, both have SPB, good lyrics, prabhu and came in similar times.
  
  
• From: SRK (@ icache-3.doit.wisc.edu) on: Fri Oct 29 15:10:43 EDT 1999
  
  I don't think there are any ARR equivalents for IR's "mann vaasanai" songs. ARR's songs rarely produce that strong south Indian mood that IR's songs do.
  
  
• From: st (@ 216.32.18.74) on: Fri Oct 29 16:18:03 EDT 1999
  
  mann vaasanai -- what does this mean.... Is it something like Family look!
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Fri Oct 29 16:55:23 EDT 1999
  
  There is some overlap between IR and ARR. But IRs notes flow smoothly and slowly. ARR seems to go in for the catchy and fast types. Usually catchy one are not the one you can hear again and again. I am listening to Kadhalar Dhinam and Sangamam. Comparing them with IRs I found ARR to be too fast for my tastes. While watching Walter VetriVel even the beatsy 'chinna rasave' seems to be a slow melody.
  But these are fast time and ARR is making hay !!
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Fri Oct 29 17:26:16 EDT 1999
  
  st,
  
  i am very much tempted to reply to you because i have some respect for you. hence this only reply to your this posting. i would be happy if no one else responded.
  
  to learn about maNvAsanai, listen to bob marley's "i shot the sheriff" and the cheap imitation of it by eric clapton. if you failed to find anything there then no point in any argument. (anyways, i am not going to argue any further!)
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.56) on: Fri Oct 29 17:35:57 EDT 1999
  
  I would rather equate "Pesum maNimuththu rojaakkaL" to " peNNalla peNNalla". But I think it is non - IR. Is it ?
  
  
• From: Jana (@ pppa42-resalecolumbus1-2r1168.saturn.bbn.com) on: Sat Oct 30 12:28:31 EDT 1999
  
  What would be the ARR's equivalent of "Idu oru pon maalai pozhuthu" from Nizhalgal.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp02.sprint.com) on: Mon Nov 1 10:38:53 EST 1999
  
  What are IR's equivalents to ARR's
  
  1) ChandralEkhaa
  2) Raasaaththi ennusuru..
  3) veerapaandi kOttailEy
  4) kalloori saalai (with rap)
  5) oorvasi oorvasi
  6) nenjinilEy nenjinilEy
  7) varaaga nadhikkarai Oram (qawwaali)
  8) maanooththu mandhaiyila (maNvaasanai?)
  9) then kizhakku seemaiyila..(maNvaasanai)
  10)on paatu sElai madippula naan (maNvaasanai)
  11) minsaarappoovEy peN poovey
  12) suththi suththi vandheeha (maNvaasanai)
  
  I request, please let us NOT use this thread to once again to decide with our limited knowledge, but unlimited bias to try to conclude one is better than the other. Both the MDs have a lot of intersection of elements in their sets, as well as some unique elements.
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Mon Nov 1 14:05:29 EST 1999
  
  rajaG, i was reminded of "rum bum bum Arambam" when i thought about kalloori saalai.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ mail.startec.net) on: Mon Nov 1 14:18:12 EST 1999
  
  RajaG:
  That's like saying, "The Mercedes Benz is a car, the Edsel is also a car". Of course, they are both cars !
  
  
• From: kozhuppu (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Mon Nov 1 14:46:07 EST 1999
  
  MEANT FOR THE EYES OF SRINATH ONLY:
  
  As you put it so succintly - Thanks for likening ARR to Mercedes and IR to Edsel:-). But I don't think it is right to categorize IR as Edsel. I would say he's atleast a Yugo, or for that matter even a Pinto. Oh he is 'topless' - I guess he is a Mazda Miata.:-)
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Mon Nov 1 14:49:22 EST 1999
  
  Chandy,
  
  Actually Rum Bum Bum reminds me of Inaa mina dikaa.... For me it is quite different from Kalloori saalai...(no adlibs, no change of rhythm pattern, no solo instrumental take off, plus one is a male duet/chorus and the other is a female/male duet.)
  
  
• From: bb (@ franck.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Mon Nov 1 15:15:35 EST 1999
  
  rajag:-))
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.77) on: Mon Nov 1 15:34:32 EST 1999
  
  Let me try answering rajaG:
  
  1) ChandralEkhaa - raja rajaadhi raajan indha raaja
  
  similarity - use of choral harmony and heavy beats. difference - pace, richness of instruments in the former.
  
  2) Raasaaththi ennusuru - ennuLLe ennULLe, vandhE maatharam from kaalaapaani,unnai ethirpaarthEn, vandhaaL vandhaaL raajakumaari
  
  similarity - all are prediminantly accapella. difference - raasaathi uses no percussion and is a classic melody. ennuLLe is one among the few songs with an incomparable orchestration accompanied byu violins. vandhE maatharam - not a melody but a song that instills patriotism in every nerve. unnai ethirpaarthen in on the lines of ennuLLE and vandhaaL vandhaaL is the lightes when it comes to melody content.
  
  3) veerapaandi kOttailEy - raakkamma kaiyai thattu.
  
  May be I will be despised if I make this statement. But I feel these are on comparable states. The preludes and the interludes are extremely rich in violins and my word is not needed for description.
  
  
  4) kalloori saalai (with rap) - Sorry I could not find one.
  
  5) oorvasi oorvasi - masthaana masthaana. Nothing great to rave about except that both are catchy fast paced songs.
  
  6) nenjinilEy nenjinilEy - aagaaya veNNilaavE.
  
  Both set in dharbaari kaanada - I believe. When it comes to the formulation of the tune ARR comes close to IR's talents. But in the interludes he fails miserably. The interludes of IR are just awesome.
  
  7) varaaga nadhikkarai Oram (qawwaali) - vaa veNNilaa unnai thaanEy, nenachapadi from TIME and some song from "naNbargaL.
  
  Need I say that vaa vEnnilaa is miles ahead of its ARR counterpart ? Even if some die hard fan of ARR comes and tells me I am stupidly stubborn, I prefer to remain as I am :-)
  
  8) maanooththu mandhaiyila (maNvaasanai?) - ithukku equivalent aayiram irukku. two egs are "aaththa aathOrama" and "oththadi othadi".
  
  the interludes of ARR in this song suck. I donot think I should say anything about IR's songs. They still remain the best among the dappanguthus.
  
  9) then kizhakku seemaiyila..(maNvaasanai) - pazhaya sOgangal from EVK .
  
  ivLO slow melody enakku thrinju IR vera kodukkalai. My vote will rather go for ARR asI feel his job is more likeable.
  
  10)on paatu sElai madippula naan (maNvaasanai) - uchchanathalai uchchiyilE.
  
  once again there are many from IR. As usual ARR proves he is a child in the interludes.
  
  11) minsaarappoovEy peN poovey - anthimazhai pozhigirathu.
  
  this is a terrible song (IMO) from Nithyashree but if you want vasantha you know it is anthimazhai from IR
  
  12) suththi suththi vandheeha (maNvaasanai) - yaaarum viLaiyaadum thOttam from naadodi thendral.
  
  Both the songs have the "magudi" type tune formulation which comes over and over.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.77) on: Mon Nov 1 15:35:57 EST 1999
  
  First time html try paNNi goof :-( Sorry folks
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp02.sprint.com) on: Mon Nov 1 15:57:39 EST 1999
  
  MS,
  
  As I said earlier, I will definitely not get into whose composition is better. I believe, that you would agree, that there is no end to such a discussion.
  
  First of all, my listing was NOT to say that IR has NOT done such type of songs. The 12 songs I listed cover at least 6 to 8 types of songs (genre)- pick a number. IR has done almost every type of song there is, and a lot of them very well too. And IMO ARR has too. Hence, my listing was strictly within the language of the heading of the thread. To find interesting complements from IR.
  
  1. I don't think Rasaaththi and Rajadhirajan are similer - in fact both might be unique elements in the respective sets.
  2. Have not heard the IR songs - so can't comment.
  3. Agree
  4.Agree
  5.Do not know.
  6. Do not agree - The similarity ends in the raagaa. Style, chorus, etc., are quite different. I would say nenjiniley is more unique, though the thaaLam structure of aagaaya vENNilaavEy is clever too.
  7. Do not agree - IR's example doesn't sound qawwaliish.
  8.9. and 10. Just to give an example that ARR has done maNvaasanai songs too - definitely not to the extent of IR.
  11. The similarity is only in the ragam - Composition style is quite different.
  12. See 8.
  
  
  
• From: 100% fat ;-) (@ mail.startec.net) on: Mon Nov 1 16:22:41 EST 1999
  
  rajaG:
  Is it your understanding that if ARR has tried less styles than IR that would make him an inferior MD ? You seem to be trying to prove that ARR is not inferior because he has as many styles as IR. As far as I am concerned, both assumptions are wrong. IR has more styles and irrespective of that he is a better MD than ARR ! You have not heard Ennulle, Enulle and Unnai Ethirpaarthen ?!!! Unfortunately it is too late now :-( People are fast losing appreciation for these kinds of songs, so I doubt even you'll like them if you hear them now !
  
  IR has done almost every type of song there is, and a lot of them very well too. And IMO ARR has too
  
  As for this atrocious statement, I have little to say ! ARR has a loooong way to go (he is not even headed in the right direction) to become as complete a musician as IR.
  
  

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