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ToO MuCH mUsic, tOo hEaVy, ToO CoMPleX: wROng aPprOacHE Of rAJA iN tHe 90s

Topic started by rAJA FaN (@ spider-wg071.proxy.aol.com) on Tue May 4 22:59:57 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I was listening to Kaadhalar Dinam song: Kaadhelennum Ther.... (the only likeable song in that film by the way and I am in love with this ARR song after so many years!!) I began to understand why IR is losing a hold on today's (students) audience. ARR has very little music to offer and that is his absolute strength! Come On, IR fans look at it in a different perspective. ARRs approach is straightforward. Whatever little, package it well, spread it thin and out, give it a consistent and steady rhythm, forget the interlude, (who can sing them anyway)make it seem more introspective like a cricket 5 day test match, slow, deliberate and enough time in between for discussion on what is likely next, etc. ARR's lack of musical spontaneity is his greatest strenght, whereas IR's spontaneity is his greatest drawback in the all of 90s. Too thick for anyone of today' world to enjoy it in a leisurely pace without being knocked out by the complex arrangements, now very predictable sequences in the pallavi(algorithmic), interludes and charanam (usually where you see the ingenious and unpredictable IR, but even then..) Please don't think that IRs songs before the 90s come under attach here, no way. That is the golden age unfortunately of the analogue age!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But, my intent is to open up a discussion to throw in the many songs that I felt that IR gave too much music and that is why he could not attract the real music buyers (not lovers, mind you, there is a difference!) Even his sons are having so much in each of their songs, it is difficult to enjoy as much as you can enjoy an ARR song, even though you wonder how the heck did you enjoy it. Welcome to the digital world of new age music, where little is much better than a lot of music.

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Responses:

• From: Raja Fan (@ spider-wg064.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue May 4 23:14:01 EDT 1999
  
  The first song: Aasey athigam Vecchchu, Manasey Adakki Vakkalama. It is an excellent concept, but the rhythm was so longdrawn and like it was you were dragging a steam engine on chains around your shoulder. Even the interlude with that oboe was so draining of listening energy. I think Raja could have made it a little more 'pacier', cut out some crap in the interlude or made it slick and had some other singer with a softer voice (like Sujatha or Alka Yagnik) to sing it. More forthrightness of the sound of the oboe or something in the preludes and interludes or they could have been cut off.
  
  Second song: Muthirai Ippodhu and Oru Myna, Myna both Uzhaippali songs. Man, such wonderful songs just destroyed by the same 'long-drawn or dragging rhythms and interludes had simply too many different %##!*&^d up instruments that you could not adjust so easily to the sudden, sudden, sudden change in the beats, in the instruments. Basically a lack of flow, even though the tempo was maintained in the songs. First of all, these superb numbers sounded like a hundred songs in one and second IR is not taking into account how much is much for a dance number these days. I felt enervated after listening to these songs, drained of energy, exhausted. Another aspect, dance songs are supposed to have some Thembu, you know life, buouyancy, bounciness (not the rhythm I mean) and lightness about it. Raja has got it all upside down, including Karthik, which brings to me song three: Hello, Mr. Kadhali in NINI. Another 100 songs in one, this song was also totally out of whack.
  
  Now you see the difference between ARR and IR/KR? I mean I am not arguing about the popularity of the songs listed above, but an IR fan like me who has begun to seek slower numbers can only have one recourse today: ARR. I cannot understand why IR has to give too much in one song! This goes too for all of Manam Virumbuthey Unnai songs, which I love but cannot listen many times. All the songs are like Titanic
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Wed May 5 01:24:47 EDT 1999
  
  ada pongappa!!!!
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.139) on: Wed May 5 01:33:45 EDT 1999
  
  Look Raja Fan, Raja has been elevating the standards of the music listeners in TN for about 20 years! I can vouch that cause I'm one of those many simpletons who can now enjoy complex music. You got to work for progress, improvement, betterment always, if you have stuff! Never should we discourage Raja to downgrade, please! If the masses are not impressed, let them be! He has given enough for the masses over the years- all the while experimenting and bringing them up! Now, if they want to go down with ARR, let them go??? Why should he be dragged down!
  
  Be clear as to what you mean, whether IR should be doing the Padaiyappa kind of stuff, or MVU kind of great stuff?
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Wed May 5 01:43:59 EDT 1999
  
  Raja fan:
  
  A clarification please: Are you asking IR to compose like ARR to get audience ?
  
  
• From: Rasu (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Wed May 5 01:51:30 EDT 1999
  
  Indha fan-nu peru irukaravangallam ore maadhiri think-arangalae...;-))
  Vijay: How is my dear friend Veliyathavan. Ippa ellaam avar enn inge varuvadhillai? Convey muy regards to him;-))
  
  
  
• From: Raja Fan (@ spider-wb062.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed May 5 01:56:59 EDT 1999
  
  Friends, please don't mistake my intent. I am brinig a point here. Wherever you see these days, it is ARR in terms of popularity. I am saying IR has to accept that his rich music was synonymous with the pre ARR era of film music. Even P Jayachandran claimed that with the arrival of ARR, film music took a dramatic turn. IR has accepted the new sound regime but not to the new content preference of the new audience. It is difficult to explain. All I am saying, IR's music today is a little too much to enjoy
  
  
• From: bb (@ bernstein.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Wed May 5 02:56:12 EDT 1999
  
  raja fan, u have a point there.. compared to other MDs IR's music is definitely complex, but i guess it is not a drawback.
  
  
• From: Sankaran (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed May 5 04:11:11 EDT 1999
  
  Raja Fan,
  True, you have brought out a different perspective. But there are a few points which go unanswered.
  
  1. You would definitely agree with me when I say that IR's music is much less complicated today compared to what it was say in 1987. All his interludes have half the duration of as they did then. Even the charanam part seems to be simpler, compare for example, the charanams of "Iniaya malargal malarum...." with "Yaar veettu roja poo poothadhadho....". In fact, this is one of the arguments made against IR today. ARR and others of his ilk, on the other hand, just repeat the same sequence in interludes and the prelude. ARR even has this habit of starting his charanam anupallavi-like(Pachaikiligal tholodu for example), all this makes me feel that I have not listened to one full song, just a mosaic of similar-sounding "cut-paste" sequences. IR has thankfully, not fallen into this style yet, thank goodness.
  
  2. Do you imply that the standards in today's audience have fallen because simplicity is in and complex patterns are out? I guess that it is not the heavy patterns, but the content(which should be melodious and not taxing on the ears) should be the deciding factor.
  
  
• From: hari (@ hud04a01.ml.com) on: Wed May 5 08:57:10 EDT 1999
  
  raja fan,
  There are few IR songs, Indeed I felt your way. Take the song 'malai chandran vasam seidu malai adivarathile'. What a lovely tune, but the interludes, completely put me off, just boring,
  dragging, off-key interludes. Next song ' va va
  vanji illamane' from guru sisyan. Here is a song, which start with great trumpet piece, past-faced
  tune, had all ingreidents for a good dance song. But IR failed to keep up the tempo, the beats were very fast and as the song progresses, it become so monotonous. First interlude was ok, but second interlude is like pulling man fast running man with a rope. I also dont like the beats in Pesa kudathu either, because they are too lengthy and boring.
  
  hari
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Wed May 5 10:08:49 EDT 1999
  
  Hari, RajaFan,
  If you wanna praise ARR's music goahead and do that. Don't be short sighted in saying that IR's music is complicated, interludes stuffed with too much instruments. Infact IR is the only MD to be still using heavy Orchestration. If you cannot appreciate it leave it alone.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss03.ny.us.ibm.com) on: Wed May 5 10:28:18 EDT 1999
  
  In another thread, NOV was commenting tongue-in-cheek on how many new ways people come up with to insult ARR (and I agree with NOV :-)) But this thread seems to do the same honours to IR :-)) Too much music now ? What else next ? Rythmic beats ? ;-)))
  
  
• From: hari (@ hud04a01.ml.com) on: Wed May 5 10:44:39 EDT 1999
  
  dorai,
  We are not saying all the songs should not be
  complicated. There are some songs, which would
  have better with crisp and smooth music than heavy
  music.
  'If you can not appreciate it leave it alone, ' -
  Is it what Ir fans are doing on other MDS? :-).
  Anyhow, no one can give perfect music and satisfying all the crazy fans here, and discussion like this, IMO, makes this forum more balanced and
  the way, ideally it should be.
  
  hari
  
  
• From: Mr.Kuzapam (@ 206.139.13.152) on: Wed May 5 10:55:31 EDT 1999
  
  Guys,
  For a musician nothing is complex, it is the fans who group them. In past, MD took a great care for all the songs they scored, but now things have changed.
  
  Arrs or devas or sirpis are still around because people are not in a position to judge a complicated score from an easy score.
  
  IR, who is a from the traditional music school, does things only in his way. Just take one song of IR - NA VAKA PATu PORA in Desiya geetham, what a matured tune, matured orchestration, just perfect music. If one could understand theory of music he would love this song rather than vazkai il 1000 padikalappa which just sounds like Ricky martinish tune.
  
  To reach the maturity (CMM level n)level, arr or tom or d and harry has to spend more number of years in composing music rather beliving in ready made beat and loops .
  
  I feel Padaiappa songs were all composed! (might be a wrong word) in few hrs, Arr must have heard Ricky martin, ace of base and scribbled out few scores
  and were recorded.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Wed May 5 13:28:00 EDT 1999
  
  Mr K:
  
  Is that you ? Unbelievable Sir :-)
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Wed May 5 15:01:57 EDT 1999
  
  Hari,
  I like comparisons between IR and any other MDs to keep this forum healthy and interesting. But to call even some of the IRs music as heavy, Too Complex, etc.,etc.. is kinda too hard to absorb.
  
  IMO, If you look at any of IRs compositions, the essence of his music or tune is simplicity. I can say that any number of times and for any song. I have hardly seen many songs where he has used complex music.
  
  
  
• From: NaNbaN (@ 32.100.58.13) on: Wed May 5 16:09:09 EDT 1999
  
  IR makes sculpture.
  
  ARR makes Dress.
  
  Worship the sculpture and wear the dress.
  
  Ofcourse you have to throw some dress as they fade
  away after some time. But Some dress become valuable : Like the Diana's dress.
  
  Sculptures are difficult to cut but they look simple. It has beauty inbound, it does not need any Sasikala's Jewelery store.
  
  ARR likes jeweleries and his girls needs that jewels to look good. Without that it may look "Awaw....."
  
  Don't tell me this is also complex to understand.
  
  SIRPYingly,
  NaNbaN
  
  

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