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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

1.Vedha:i know he always go for a hindi tune in his films(mostly for Modern theatres).No alterations! he just copy a full hindi song !

best examble:Manam ennum medai mele(Gil tho ye kulu yahag)

2.MSV: i hear that(from Sujatha's book"Neerkumiligal") "thulluvatho elamai" was a song copied from english to almost all famous indian langages.Is there any other songs MSV copied?

3.Illayaraja:Even the GOD of MUSIC Raja sir did some thing like this.He just used that "I love you"style from BOneyM Sunny for "darling darling"in priya.I have heard a totally same song like "Kanavu kanum valkkai yavum" in Hindi also.(i forgot the film).

and i dont know who is the MD for the song"ehu pal vadiyum mugam! ethai parpathu than sugam".But i heard the same song in an english film.

4.ARR : i was told from my friends that he did copying intelligently.drum beats and some music styels from cassettes like "enigma,ace of base".And the humming before the song "thillana thillana" is a 100%copy from the film"the island of Dr.Mozeru".

5.SA Rajkumar : a lot of help from hindi! best example "mallikai puve malligai puve parthaya" from "didi tera thevaru thevana"

5.DEVA:hee..hee..the master.(better we see how many songs he did on his own instead of seeing how many songs he copied!)

like wise there is a lot of songs are copied from Tamil to Hindi also..

Now its your turn friends....

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Responses:

• From: A K Moorthy (@ nova.singnet.com.sg) on: Mon Jan 24 09:12:44 EST 2000
  
  I fully agree with Senthilkumar's comments. I even heard that one music director justified copying on the grounds that in music all the notes are the same regardless of the language in which the lyrics are written. Such hypocrites are are very quick in condemning western music and songs but copy them wholsesale wih their tongues in the cheeks.
  
  
• From: siva (@ j7.kch16.jaring.my) on: Mon Jan 24 10:05:52 EST 2000
  
  recently i got addicted to the voice of the late Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, the pakistani Qawwali singer.. listening to his songs, i realise ARR is a copycat too... his Monalisa song from Mr.Romeo is lifted from the song Allah Hoo by Nusrat.. exact tune for the pallavi and anu pallvi and a little bit of the saranam..
  sirpi also lifted Nusrat's "Kina Sona" for Ullathai Alli Ta song "vamma mama"
  
  
• From: kooththan (@ mail1.pmc-vacc.com) on: Mon Jan 24 12:00:40 EST 2000
  
  You missed AM Rajah.
  
  Most of his songs were borrowed from Hindi, at producers request.
  
  ....later
  
  
• From: sk (@ 137.132.2.109) on: Mon Jan 24 15:20:35 EST 2000
  
  kooththan:
  
  you must be joking!
  
  
• From: Naveen (@ rocib105-15.splitrock.net) on: Mon Jan 24 18:43:09 EST 2000
  
  sk
  yeah. thats what I was also wondering. He is the first person in TFM who mixed Indian music and Western classical music in a delightful way.. still AM Rajah has his own identity. I don't understand why nobody is discussing much about him. He is a real genius. I love his violin runs and piano work. If he had stolen from hindi, I'm 100% sure that hindi guys must have copied from western classical pieces.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ nscs21p1.remote.umass.edu) on: Mon Jan 24 23:17:29 EST 2000
  
  Please look at the copied songs in TFM thread in the archives.
  
  
• From: Krishnan (@ gatekeep.ti.com) on: Tue Jan 25 01:09:13 EST 2000
  
  'Enna vilai ayzhake' from Kadhalar dhinam has
  been copied from 'Thanga pathakathin mela' from
  MSV music
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ snfca030-0383.splitrock.net) on: Tue Jan 25 01:16:30 EST 2000
  
  kooththan , there is not a single song composed by AM Raja that has been copied from Hindi. All I could notice was that the 'nadai' in 'Nilavum malarum' and 'kaaveri oram' was the same as SDBurman's 'Tum na jaane', that's all. It is unfortunate that AMR (as a composer) had to be eased out, due to his attitude problems.
  
  
• From: kumar (@ bbndrel5.net.external.hp.com) on: Tue Jan 25 04:38:31 EST 2000
  
  looks like mr. senthilkumar is always interested in reinventing the wheel
  
  
• From: innocent_querifier (@ dialup-209.245.138.158.sanjose1.level3.net) on: Tue Jan 25 06:07:30 EST 2000
  
  Wondering about this device(or whatever) I saw on a ARR site(arrahman.nu)...Its a "Sampler" and the site also listed the songs from which the drum loops were "sampled". Recently, I saw this program on MTV which talked about sampling in the English music scene. Bigtime hip-hop artistes were lifting or rather "sampling" tunes from former chartbusters for their own songs and this led to them being sued. Apparently, an agreement has been reached whereby artistes have to pay a cut of their profits to the original artistes. Long story short. Here is my doubt (and forgive me if I sound stupid!)....Don't people like ARR also have to pay this money if he samples sounds frm other artistes??? Or is it really not that serious?
  
  Ex. of unwelcome plagiarism in hip-hop -- Ice Ice baby(Vanila Ice) from Under Pressure(David Bowie and Queen)
  
  Paid plagiarism -- Every breath you take by Puff Daddy from Sting.
  
  
• From: Jee (@ 193.188.124.130) on: Tue Jan 25 08:13:34 EST 2000
  
  IQ (Innocent_Querifier),
  
  I think ARR is using the Sample music CDs available in market. There will be 100s and 1000s of sample music which are copyrighted & bundled in a CD. It will cost around Rs. 15,000 to Rs.20000 per CD. If you buy that CD also you can give a very good music. So ARR has paid the price for copying samples.
  
  FYI,
  
  "Thillana Thillana" song beginning is as same as a BGM piece in "Island of Dr. Mozeau". Because the MD of that English film also copied it from the Sample CD. lol :)
  
  
• From: s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.165) on: Tue Jan 25 09:44:58 EST 2000
  
  >"Thillana Thillana" song beginning is as same as >a BGM piece in "Island of Dr. Mozeau". Because >the MD of that
  > English film also copied it from the Sample >CD. lol :)
  
  ups!:) is it true Jee? :)
  
  dear kumar:
  >looks like mr. senthilkumar is always interested >in reinventing the wheel
  
  if u think like that please forgive me! i dont know if there was already a topic like this.sorry!
  
  -senthilkumar
  
  
  
• From: Vijay Venkatraman J (@ 203.197.154.135) on: Tue Jan 25 11:52:05 EST 2000
  
  Dear Friends,
  My thanks to Senthil Kumar for accepting Maestro Dr.Ilaiyaraaja as The God Of Music! Regarding His copy business, I would like to enlighten some points:
  
  1)As far as I know, the two songs mentioned by Senthil are the only ones copied by Him! In fact, He was forced to do that!
  - Darling Darling Song - Yes the prelude and "I love You" pieces were from Boney M because He was compelled to copy. He had to agree because Priya was the first Stereophonic Film in Tamil (which has the song) and He could not help it as He was not the supreme authority then!
  - Kanavu Kanum Song - Yes it was from Hindi - forced to do so by Thyagarajan and Balu Mahendra!
  I hope that clears the doubts! I humbly say that all songs that make you think He has copied are His original ones which have been copied by others, especially in Hindi!
  
  Please join Maestro Ilaiyaraaja Fans Club at
  http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/maestroilaiyaraajafansclub
  Yours Always,
  Vijay.
  
  
• From: a (@ infocache.netline.net.uk) on: Tue Jan 25 14:06:49 EST 2000
  
  What about Ilayaraja COPYING the Karnatic Ninnukori Varnam in Agni Natchathiram?????
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Tue Jan 25 15:25:33 EST 2000
  
  thanpi a,
  
  ninnukkOri varNanaththin swarangkaLaiyum, ir-in ninnukkIri varNam-in swarnagkaLaiyum engkaLukkuk konjcam ezuthik kAtti antha copying-a veLichchaththuk koNTu vAngkaLEn. please.
  
  
• From: musicfan (@ host2.cvs.aa.net) on: Tue Jan 25 15:42:28 EST 2000
  
  Muguam title score!...by raja lifted from
  "Pastorale" by Igor Stravinksy. He lifted the chord progressions and manged to built an Indian melody on top of it.
  
  
  
• From: Innocent_Querifer (@ dialup-209.245.131.115.sanjose1.level3.net) on: Tue Jan 25 17:53:13 EST 2000
  
  Mr.Jee: I have the Deep Forest album which also carries a song with a similar intro as the opening of "Thilana Thilana"....And I always thought that the Deep Forest chant was borrowed from African tribal songs!! So where did "Island of Dr.Moreau" come into the picture? and who is the MD of that movie?
  
  
• From: Kamesh (@ pm-82-206.tm.net.my) on: Tue Jan 25 20:37:23 EST 2000
  
  For your Information , a sample CD is a CD containing Sample music which the buyer has the right to use in his compositions. It is more likely that ARR used the same samples used by Deep Forest. There are more examples like Mukkalaa sounds like Dr. Alban etc..
  I think what ARR is doing is no CRIME.
  
  
  Anyway, if you see www.arrahman.nu they give authentic info on which SAMPLE CD has been used for which song.
  
  Please do refer to that. May be you will find more DISCOVERIES.
  
  
  
• From: innocent_as_ever_querifier! (@ dialup-209.245.143.107.sanjose1.level3.net) on: Tue Jan 25 23:53:02 EST 2000
  
  Kamesh: Good to know all that and please...I was not accusing ARR of any crime...I was just curious if ARR had to pay for using those samples.
  Thanks again for the info. And yes, I do remember ARR mentioning in some interview about how the loops of Dr.Alban's albums were available for universal use.
  
  
• From: Jee (@ 193.188.124.130) on: Wed Jan 26 01:29:46 EST 2000
  
  Dear IQ,
  
  In "Island of Dr. Mozeru" film, the situation is, the heroine is dancing. As she is in an unexplored, terrific, wild island, the MD used the African Tribal music which suits the scene perfectly. I heard a sample CD which got the same piece of music. I saw the film in Star Movies before I listen to "Thillana thillana".
  
  
• From: Idhayan (@ ss06.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Wed Jan 26 13:10:11 EST 2000
  
  Guys, I dont know who are the MDs for the songs which were copied from Clint Eastwood western classics like "good bad & ugly" and "for a few dollars more".
  Interestingly, the "few dollars more" song was
  first copied into kannada and then it made it to Tamizh.
  
  
• From: IQ (@ dialup-209.245.135.147.sanjose1.level3.net) on: Sun Feb 6 16:04:53 EST 2000
  
  Well, those background scores were composed by Ennio Morricone( btw this person has been behind the BG scores of atleast 400 movies and even the upcoming Brian De Palma venture "Mission to Mars").
  
  Jee, I think it makes sense now, since Deep Forest's music revolves around adapting native music and "re-mixing" them. BTW which version of Dr.Moreau are you talking about...the recent one with Marlon Brando or the older version?
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ netcache2.mot.com) on: Mon Feb 7 00:14:36 EST 2000
  
  Idhayan,
  
  In tamil the MD was SPB the song "vaNNam indha vanjiyin vaNNam" and the movie was dubbed from a kannada movie starring vishNu vardhan (the song goes like "baNNa..." )
  
  SPB has done such things lotsa times. Another good instance is the anand babu song from sigaram.This song was copied from one movie )involving some school kids trying to protect a building and their theme song is this number.
  
  ARR has one more to his credit. The number titled "baby elephant walk " henri mancini number has been used in "1000 thil nAn oruvan" (the main theme is used by lot of ppl while showing guNdu kalyaNam" ) the one that goes in the BG has been "deva"ed by arr...
  
  

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