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Roja Songs Review

Topic started by raycas (@ 212.186.40.21) on Sat Dec 29 10:20:10 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

this is something i always wanted to ask u people. i know it's about something old, but i seem to have missed it when it had been discussed.
so, till a week or so, i had been thinking 'roja' by arr, his first work anno 1992, was a great wall which not even the biggest arr-hater could conquer. i somehow had this impression in mind that everyone had accepted it to be a great masterpiece no one would dare to critice.
and after that, i have read a lot of reviews of other arr-albums, where people like shashi (from rahmanonline.com) have reviewed every single note of each and every song (which i always enjoyed), but now i realize i haven't read such a review about roja. and i would like to.
and the other thing is, in the past week i suddenly read things about 'roja', that the songs were mostly copied and things like that (okay, that one message from this psycho 'member...' i didn't take serious, but now jag also said something similiar). so, now what is the truth?

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Responses:

• From: raycas (@ 212.186.40.21) on: Sat Dec 29 10:21:30 EST 2001
  
  and please, as usual i beg u people not to misuse this thread for any arr-ir war, or arr-bashing or any other kind of ultra-negative messages.
  thanks in advance,
  
  raycas
  
  
• From: --:) (@ 151.201.37.241) on: Sat Dec 29 11:13:00 EST 2001
  
  it is too early to review this album, it is just been less than 10 years this movie was released, we should wait atleast another 15 years to start thinking about a review
  
  
• From: Karthi (@ 63.21.181.22) on: Sun Dec 30 18:24:06 EST 2001
  
  "Chinna Chinna Aasai" was praised as The Song of the Decade by K Balachander.
  
  
• From: ARR fan (@ 151.197.218.231) on: Sun Dec 30 19:29:12 EST 2001
  
  Atleast it was'nt praised as the song of the century.
  With the media hype ARR enjoyed, I would'nt be surprised if it was hailed as one.
  To be faithful to this thread here is my take on Roja
  
  Chinna Chinna Aasai - Very melodious number. Reggae format well layed out. Great bass work from Keith peters. The second interlude was interesting with "Eelo Eelo" hum. Defintely very orginal.
  
  Kaadhal Rojave - SPB/chitra's good singing and a nice tune made it enjoyable. Another different song which did'nt have a precedent in terms of sounding.
  
  Pudhu Velai mazhai- Unni menon and Sujatha's voices were a refreshing change. Musically nothing new but again a lot of emphasis on melody and sounding.
  Eventhough it sounded little like a jingle in places(Espcially the intro).
  
  Rukumani Rukumani - Average number. Just passed muster. Nothing home to write about in terms of musical content.
  
  Tamizha Tamizha - For a change, nasal Hariharan had the pronounciation right but nothing fancy.
  
  
  Overall, a very very good effort. The theme was not to sound like Raja. Mani Rathnam wanted something fresh and he got it big time. It is very difficult not to have Raja shades but ARR managed it and Kudos to him for the effort.
  
  
• From: Pras (@ 193.56.241.19) on: Mon Dec 31 02:52:46 EST 2001
  
  ARR fan,
  Isn't Kadhal rojave sung by SPB and Sujatha ???
  
  
• From: raycas (@ 212.186.40.21) on: Mon Dec 31 05:21:26 EST 2001
  
  pras,
  u r right.
  
  raycas
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.184) on: Mon Dec 31 10:41:18 EST 2001
  
  Roja is a landmark movie as far as Music is concerned. It completely changed the way the whole India heard music there after. Done by one single man and had there been no roja, you and me wouldn't have been here in this forum so keenly queued up to fire at each other.
  Roja is a ALL India success and no other MD had ever had such a big success in the debut all over India, and that too hailing from Tamil Nadu (South).
  Mani Shankar Iyer (Cong. MP), while felicitating Roja Team during 1993 NA ceremony, said that Roja was till that date a single largest export to Pak.
  
  As a film Roja is a landmark like Shole , Murattu kaalai and sakala kala vallavan.
  
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.17.37) on: Mon Dec 31 16:20:36 EST 2001
  
  My Views:
  
  1. Chinna chinna aasai ( with reference to the C sacle)
  
  Intro :The intro has sub intro starting with a synth string playing the first two notes in the scale (I mean sa and ri) with bells (some tinkling sound ) accompanying the synth string. Then theres a simple percussion on which a keyboard run is played, which leads to the main part in the intro.
  Starts with the famous pan flute intro, simple and beautiful, evoking the blithe rural spirit. The flute is accompanied by reggae style chords, an acoustic guitar, sticks and some drum that makes a sound similiar to when u drag ur hand on a tabla after u hit it. (I am not sure of the drum's name, but i hope u are getting what i am trying to say). The acoustic guitar is played in a innovative manner, with a good lick at the end of each phrase.
  The bells part that follows starts on the dominant note (G note), with a harmony given to the bells (played on some string instrument or keyboard tone that sounds like a mandolin) that starts on the mediant (E) note. The bells part traverses four notes down the scale with the fourth note starting after a delay of half-a-bar, ending on the supertonic (D) note, giving a feeling of incompletnes and leading to the pallavi. The harmony for the bells part, is played in the same timing as the main part and ends on the Leading tone (B note). This part has the reggae chords, sticks and the drum i mentioned, bu the acoustic guitar is absent. A sound that is similiar to the sound made by the ornaments worn by our classical dancers on their feet ends the intro.
  A few notes about the intro. First of all bass guitar is conspicuosly absent through out the intro. The only bass provided is by the drum. Another thing is the way the musical sentences are ended. After the keyboard run ends the first part, the pan flute takes up and it ends the sentence on the root note giving a 'finished" feeling. But the bells part that follows has the "half-cadence" structure. The end of the bells part has the chord progression of the fashion I-V (i.e. a tonic chord followed by the dominant chord). The placing of this structure in an compostion is usually at the end of a musical passage that is followed by the continuation of the theme (here the bells played at the end of pan flutes and followed by the main song). So the over all structure of the intro is somewhat like this: a slow start (synth strings) leading to a music burst (at the start of pan flute section) that plays an idea completely and then lead to another part of the theme(the main song) with a half-cadence (the bells part) forming the bridge between the pan flute and the main song...
  
  Pallavi: Minmini's sweet voice starts the song with the reggae chords, a simple rhythm. The acoustic guitar again adds to the rhythm section with its good-sounding licks at the end of each phrase. The bass guitar also starts, giving a fuller sound to the song. The melody is simple (as "some people" call it as "nursery rhyme"), but conveys the spirit of the song. The melodic structure is broken down into phrases, and each phrase having two phrase members. For example the melody for the line "Chinna chinna aasai siragadikkum aasai" is one phrase, with the melody for the line "Chinna chinna aasai" being one phrase member of the phrase and the melody for the line "siragadikkum aasai" forming the second. The first part of this phrase seems as if the melody is going in the upward direction where as the second part seems to go the opposite way, though both of them end on the same note (mediant note). Good chords on strings and a bass jumping between two octaves, and a flute accompany the lines "Vennilavu thottu...". Again, Rahman ends the pallavi on the Leading Note (B note) again giving a feeling of incompleteness. Also, the scale is not the usual C scale, with B flat being used instead of the usual B note. This allows the Gm chord to be played (at the line "muththamida aasai"), but G7 chord is also played at other parts. There are the occasional triangle pinging at regular intervals, and other percussion sounds.
  
  1st interlude: The interludes kinda differ from the usual flow of the songs. May be Rahman wanted to convey different moods at each interlude. The first interlude starts with the violin (??) playing a solo theme in the C scale with the drums and the chords adding onto it. THe guitar picks up after the violin with good arpeggios and another acoustic playing the lead. It ends with a "trill" on the flute with increasing speed (accelandro), and if u listen closely u can spot another flute (or pan flute?) giving harmony to the main flute, by playing the same thing at an interval.
  
  Charanam: The charanam has the same melodic structure as the pallavi, but with different notes being used. Like the first two phrases (from "Malligai pooovaai..."to "maalai ida aasai") have shorter range , the next two have a longer range, and a descending melody ends the charanam. Again the string chords accompany from the second phrase (from 'MaegangaLayellam....") along with the bass, and a flute (that sounds more like a bird than in the pallavi). Only the notes used are different, the structure remaining same, thus the charanam and pallavi convey the same mood. That cud be one reason why rahman went for different type of interludes that kinda differ from the flow of the song. Again the charanam ends on the Leading note and the pallavi starts again with no difference except for a string instrument playing a small fill in.
  
  2nd interlude: This interlude is the most innovative part in the song, as far as i feel. Starts with a flute singing like a bird with a ryhthm pattern given on sticks. Then the cymbals add with another rhythm pattern accompanied by a triangle. Then a drum plays another pattern over these rhythms, Thus we have 3 different patterns in the same timing but with different textures and colors going on at the same time. Once these patterns are set, rahman sings the "yelelo" part with strings and an acoustic guitar accompnying him and a veena giving the fill-ins. The guitar is strummed differently this time. This part gives a rural, country feeling immediately. After this the bells and the mandolin like string intrument take up again, but this time accompanied by a bass guitar. And it leads to the second charanam similiar to the first one. The pallavi is again repeated at the end, but with another voice (I think its minmini's but recorded over the song again) and pizzicato violins coming in between.
  
  Please correct me if I was wrong. This is just my interpretation. I will post my views on the other songs tommorow.
  
  
• From: SAm (@ 132.235.17.37) on: Mon Dec 31 16:24:18 EST 2001
  
  People like swamiji, srikanth, aditya and others are more informed than me and I hope they wud correct me regarding my posting above.
  
  
• From: raycas (@ 212.186.40.21) on: Tue Jan 1 08:05:33 EST 2002
  
  wow,
  sam, why so modest? great interpretation of chinna chinna asai...only if i would understand half of that what u wrote i would be happy...musical knowledge is really something divine...i think i'm too old and lazy now to gain all that knowledge...sad...
  anyway, looking forward to read ur 'interpretation' of the other songs...
  
  common friend,
  
  "...said that Roja was till that date a single largest export to Pak."
  
  what do u mean by that? i didn't quite understand that...(i haven't seen the film yet, but i do know it has something to do with that indo-pak problem in kashmir)
  
  could someone express the overall feelings that was there in india after the release of roja? i mean, no critize at all? no one said roja was not so good? does anyone know where i could read reviews of that time on net?
  
  raycas
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.132) on: Tue Jan 1 18:48:23 EST 2002
  
  Kaadhal Rojaave: (with reference to the F scale)
  
  Intro:
  The song starts with Sujatha's humming with a flute like instrument hugging her melody. The melody evokes the feeling of pain and loneliness. The bass catches up in the middle and for a while sits on only one note, then changing (to quarter notes) when sujatha sings the second line of her melody. The drums start playing with nice use of the hi hat being opened at regular timings. Danya part of the tabla keeps coming in between while an eerie metallic sounding instrument herals the beginning of the song.
  The song pallavi starts off in the minor scale, but changes to the major scale at the lines "kaNNeer vazhiyudhadi ....". Most of rahman songs keep doing that, changing between minor and major scales. SPB as usual sings it with right emotion the song is intended for, with a keyboard chorus playing the accompanying chords which rightly emphasise the change when the melody shifts to the major scale at the lines "kaNNeer vazhiyudhadi ....". Interestingly, the bass guitar keeps playing a single note through out this section till "kannukul nee thaan" even though the chords keep changing. Pleasant chords on strings hug the lines from "kaNNukkuL nee thaan" to "EdhaanadhO sol sol" with the bass guitar changing from its monotonous note. For some reasons, a sound that is similiar to the instrument used in intro of the song "Kadhalikkum.." from Kadhalan is also played at this section of the song in the telugu version. That instrument is absent in the tamil version of the song. The melody reaches a climax with SPB venting out all the sorrow and yearning for his love at "EdhaanadhO sol sol". Interestingly, the melody at "Edhaanandho sol sol" ends on the upper super tonic note (upper G note) but still has a finished feeling to me. Again the first two lines are repeated.
  
  1st interlude: This is an interesting piece with good melody by the singer and the instruments. The rhythm varies slightly from that of the pallavi. The high hat is not opened (raised up) this time, and ther snare drum is hit at the rim instead of in the middle for that tick sound. Also the danya part of a tabla (the one that is used for treble sounds) plays a simple pattern. The flute starts the interlude with good echo effect sounding alternately in both the ears (or left and right speakers). The next lala part by sujatha is the favorite for me in this song. It sounds so melodious and serene. The bass picks up at this part, and starting from the second part of sujatha's humming, the strings accompany with chords. Once sujatha stops the melody on the super tonic or 'ri' (G note), the pan flute takes up playing a sweet melody with the strings continuing to support it. One thing to note is the way the strings play the chords for the pan flute. The first time they play it in one inversion and the second time they play the same chords in a different inversion. Also in the end they play the chords in the IV-I fashion, to end the melody. (F-Bflat-F for the first part, F (in a differnt inversion)-Bflat (in a different inversion)- B flat-F for the second part).
  
  Ist charanam: SPB starts the charanam in the major scale with the drums, bass guitar and the keyboard chorus accompnying him. Strings pick up again giving a fuller sound for the lines "veLLi Odai pEsinaal...". SPB also touches the upper D sharp note in this section. Again the chromatic section, and the climax is repeated and goes back to the pallavi.
  
  The second charanam are similiar to the first one. Also the second interlude is the same as the intro humming except for a different bass line. The pallavi is repeated at the end of the second charanam and sujatha's humming fades as the song ends.
  
  This composition aptly brings out the pain the hero experiences when he is separated from his beloved. One interesting thing is, except for the humming intro, all the musical phrases that are sung by the singers never end on the tonic (Sa or F), or the mediant (Ga or A) or the dominant (Pa or C note), the way usually the songs end. Most of them end on the super tonic (Ri or G) note and some end on the leading note (Ni or E) and on the sub-dominant (Bflat or the Ma) note.
  
  

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