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Would viswanathan-ramamurthy have shined in hindi film music?

Topic started by rs (@ 203.124.0.247) on Mon May 6 10:30:31 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

The golden era of tfm must be the period when viswanathan-ramamurthy reigned supreme in the 1960's. Their songs have become immortal classics! Would they have shined in hindi film music, considering that they used a lot of hindustani ragas in their tamil film music? Just go to this website for a glowing commentary on their 1956 hindi film, Naya Aadmi:

http://members.tripod.com/~ATMJH/in4.html

Even though the songs in this film were well received, somehow they did not get any more opportunities in hindi films after this film. Would they have posed a formidable challenge to shankar-jaikishan in hindi films?
What do tfm surfers think?

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Responses:

• From: rs (@ 203.124.0.247) on: Mon May 6 10:40:20 EDT 2002
  
  By the way, the commentary on Naya Aadmi appears as Article 169 in the above website.
  
  Yet another website which extols their immortal hindi song, laut gaya gam ka zamana, in the film Naya Aadmi appears in this website:
  
  http://www.rediff.com/entertai/2000/sep/02kalyanji.htm
  
  It is a pity that the viswanthan-ramamurthy duo split because of ego problems. Indeed, they are geniuses!
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.66) on: Mon May 6 23:23:16 EDT 2002
  
  Visu-Ramu were great. But S-J were also well established. So it would have been tough for them riding in two boats. it is only befitting that they gave their gems in tamil.
  
  
• From: AVR (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Tue May 7 00:23:13 EDT 2002
  
  another south indian MD who gave good music in a few Hindi films was Emani Shankar Shastry. I shall hunt up the link to a lovely song sung by LM for him.
  
  There was also a flop film with EXCELLENT music caled Bahut Din Hue starring Madhubala. The MD was I think ESS himself, but I am not too sure. It also had lovely songs by LM for a child artist.
  
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Tue May 7 01:09:15 EDT 2002
  
  In most of the HFM websites they have not been credited for the score.Also for Chandi Rani , a Banumathi venture they had composed the music .But the music has been credited to some obscure singer in many HFM sites.
  
  Vengayam ,SJ were doing fine but LP could not have matched Visu-Ramu.Barring Naushad , SDB and Salil no other MD could have matched visu-Ramu.
  
  Any idea about their Telugu /Mal/Kannada scores?
  
  
• From: satsona (@ 203.199.192.162) on: Tue May 7 01:31:06 EDT 2002
  
  Though i completely agree that music by VR duo was very good for TFM and i am a fan of their Music, i don't think they could have made a big impact in the Hindi industry.
  This is mainly bcos in the HFM industry, there were not just the SJ duo, there were a lot of other excellent MDs --Naushad,Khayyaam, C Ramchandra, SD Burman, MadanMohan,Roshan,Salil Choudhry and later, Kalyanji-Anandji,RD Burman, LP etc. Each of these MDs had a distinct style and were well received throughout India. Even there were other lesser famous but Good MDs like Vasant desai, Chitragupt, Jaidev, S N Tripathi etc. who also gave some beautiful gems in HFM, still, were not so famous(can we call it luck, providence?)
  
  There was so much competition in the HFM, so it was very tough(maybe not impossible) for the VR duo to shine.Again i am not saying that they were any less talented, it is just that they had a style which was a mixture of mainly SJ and Naushad and others, and couldnt have given something different to HFM.
  We can see this even more clearly bcos a genious like Ilayaraja who had a completely different style couldnt make impact on the HFM, (i feel mainly bcos his style was more suited to the South, but i also feel that the Hindi audience in 70s and 80s preferred simpler music, while i feel there was complexity in the beautiful music by the Maestro).
  
  VR fans, pls listen to songs of all of the MDs mentioned above before making any comments:-) bcos i would like to admit that i too am a fan of VR music, as well as old HFM.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Tue May 7 03:20:02 EDT 2002
  
  One name forgotten in ur list Satsona - Anil Biswas and even hemant Kumar. they were both Geniuses.
  
  others,
  About MSV-TKR, had they been full time in HFM, wouldnt TFM have suffered due to their abscence? Would we have got those glorious PS-TMS duets? So instead of saying "oh those northies drove away our MSV-TKR", why dont we stop for a moment to think that MSV-TKR might have chosen to be the kings of TFM themselves for so long a time! Even many Northie MDs like Sudhir Phadke and Shyamlal Mitra were more active in regional films though they gave good music for a few Hindi movies.
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.66) on: Tue May 7 03:31:07 EDT 2002
  
  AVr, You are echoing my earlier sentiment"it is only befitting that they gave their gems in tamil."
  OISG your statement " but LP could not have matched Visu-Ramu.Barring Naushad , SDB and Salil no other MD could have matched visu-Ramu. "
  I would like to believe it being a great Visu-ramu fan myself but it is too sweeping. I may cause a storm amongst the pundits here but don't you feel that Salil Chaudhary had his limitations ... there was no variety...( Salil chaudhary reminds me of our MB Sreenivas both were good for conducting choirs but FIlm Music geniuses I wouldn't know. Yes I love Anand songs & Paathai theriyuthu Paar but somehow...) ditto for Naushad good for period dramas, muslim socials but otherwise he looked jaded in contemporary cinema.. L_P & Kalyanji-Anandji were much better in orchestration & hence in my opinion suited Film Music better.
  End of digression
  
  
  
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Tue May 7 03:37:39 EDT 2002
  
  >>but don't you feel that Salil Chaudhary had his limitations ... there was no variety..<<
  
  ah vengayam - no way :)
  
  Salil Chaudhary was perhaps one of the most versatile composers. WCM was his forte. But its not as if he hasnt done Indian semiclassical numbers. His Bengali folk songs were excellent. He has composed several devotional songs in Bengali. His sad songs were quite soul stirring and there was a distinct SALIL stamp on every tune he made. Morever he competently managed to brudge the N-S gap with 25 great Malayalam films and many more in Bengali and Hindi. Not to mention the few he did in many any languages.
  
  And BGM by SC was great. Watch Prem Patra for the most mind-boggling BGM.
  
  Check out www.salilda.com - its a wonderful site.
  
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.66) on: Tue May 7 04:30:12 EDT 2002
  
  avr,
  One man's meat is another man's poison. take anand's score the same kind of tunes would be repeated in almost all his works. That is why I added the statement" I may cause a storm amongst the pundits here but don't you feel that Salil Chaudhary had his limitations " . SC like most affluent bongs of his & previous generation had a training in WCM because of absence of other music ( or probably to appease the Brits they had buried their music) Till rabindra came by they had no icons... so whatever came after Rabindra was named after him rabindra Nrithya, rabindra sangeet, Rabindra Maach(?!) et al. Salil Chaudhary has the flair for Rabindra sangeet . But I still stand by my words that KA & LP are far better in Film Music.( O P Nayyar probably is the best Hindi composer) I can go on & on but ithu TFM forum so let me stop it with one last statement. Salil used to do what ARR is doing now recycle songs as he did for Balu mahendra's azhiyaatha kolangal. Why would he want to do it? Tell me tell me
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Tue May 7 06:24:17 EDT 2002
  
  vengayam:
  
  No the music of Anand and Parivar and Swami Vivekanand and Jhoola are quite diff. (all SC movies) BTW I didnt really like u referring to SC as an "affluent bong". Anyway personal tastes differ :)Also "absence of other music" isnt a correct phrase here either. SC did compose some great classical tunes.
  
  LP and KA were wonderful in the 60s but when the mid 70s rolled in they began to use those dholaks and shehnais really badly. And u know what the state of 80s HFM is, dont u? Due to the formula music of LP and KA.
  
  Moreover I like SC BECAUSE he often recycled his tunes and gave them a totally different "LOOK and FEEL". Listen to LMs "Ke je aabi" (bengali) and the Malayalam version by PS in Raagam. Very different orchestration though the tune is the same. Ditto for the Hindi and Bengali versions of "o sajana barkha bahaar aai".
  
  I feel SC really gave supreme challenges to LMs voice and she handled those fabulously.
  
  ALL IMHO. I know opinions differ, and I respect ur opinions, vengayam.
  
  Thanks.
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.66) on: Tue May 7 06:55:25 EDT 2002
  
  Avr,
  We can continue this privately as the sideshow is more about HFM . But have you given it a thought that the death of music in Hindi coincided with the arrival of the angry young man.Music became less important. Because the movies ran by repeat value the songs caught on.(Sholay, MKS, Deewar et al)
  
  
• From: rs (@ 203.124.0.247) on: Tue May 7 08:31:45 EDT 2002
  
  OISG,
  
  Regarding your query on the VR scores in other languages,they composed for 88 tamil films, 11 telugu films and 2 hindi films.
  
  Their 11 telugu films are:
  chandirani
  amalakalu
  prajarajyam
  santhosham
  tenaliraman
  bhakthamarkandaya
  kudumbagauravam
  rajamalyasiman
  indiki deepam ilalae (NTR starrer)
  nichiyathambulam
  aashajeevalu
  
  It would be good if tfm surfers can provide links to these telugu film music by VR.
  
  Both the VR hindi films: chandirani and naya aadmi, were opportunities provided by telugu films stars, Bhanumathi and N T Rama Rao respectively, who wanted to encourage the talented duo.
  
  Incidentally, sometime back, I got a record shop to tape for me VR songs from two tamil films which I have so far not heard over radio: thendral veesum and senthamarai. The films came in 1962, in which year they scored for 17 films. You should listen to these songs: they are very melodius. In fact, anyone who listens to the song, kanavae kaathal,in the latter film will like it immediately and will want to relisten to it. I am not sure why these film songs are not broadcast over radio.
  
  Indeed, VR were going so strong in the 1960's that if not for their split in 1965, tfm would have been farricher.
  
  When they re-joined in 1995, they composed for Engiruntho Vanthan. I liked all the songs in that film. Especially the title song by SPB is a fantastic melody. In my opinion, it is the most difficult song sung ny SPB. tfm surfers should listen to this song.
  
  Visu-Ramu are mellisai maamanargal!
  
  
  
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Tue May 7 08:39:11 EDT 2002
  
  Bulls eye !Vengayam on the death of music in HFM.
  
  But I agree with your comments on K & A who managed better music arrangments.But Salil despite doing lesser films would always touch you with this compositions irrespective of the language.He had showed better understanding of music even in the smaller number of films he did.
  
  May be you are right on Naushad regarding his "Other" movies.Prob SRiram might throw light on that.
  
  But SDB ..he was years ahead of everybody.
  
  Visu-Ramu ...HFM koduthu vaikala avvalavuthan!I almost had a heart attack listeening to "Kadhalikka Neramillai" Hindi version.Dappa!
  
  I also heard from an ex-associate of Sridhar that though Sridhar wanted Visu-Ramu the producers were insisting on LP.Kazhuthaikku theiryuma Karpoora Vasanai.
  
  
  
  

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