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Is TFM in a vicious cycle of degeneration?

Topic started by rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on Tue Sep 26 15:43:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have checked the archives and for some reason a topic with a similar heading is gone!
So here's is some food for thought.

1. Actors like Ajith, Vijay, etc commanding MDs to copy from "English CDs" and set them to Indian lyrics.
2. MDs like Deva, Sirpi copying left, right and center, in situations excluding item 1 above.
3. Bad pronunciation of singers.
4. MDs like SAR repeating the same tune over and over and over......you get the point (and many times in the same film)
5. ARR not putting any effort in re-recording at all- merely playing the songs in the movie with slower/faster versions.
6. ARR, Srikanth (Deva's son), etc blatantly indulging in lip-synch activities. Other lesser known artists, engaged in karaoke singing. While this does not directly affect TFM it speaks for the lack of confidence in the talents of the artists.
7. Many occurences of really stupid lyrics - though most of them may be blamed on the director/producers adamant insistence or same boring situations.
8. Absence of thespians who could inspire Kannadasan, TMS, SPB, PS etc to give their best.

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Responses:

• From: chandy (@ 131.230.25.38) on: Tue Sep 26 16:01:09 EDT 2000
  
  rajaG :
  
  I completely agree with you on the degeneration. But there have been much progress that has also happened. Once cannot overlook these :
  1. Technology improvements - in recording, sound effects, overall quality of music delivery etc.
  2. Marketing of TFM
  3. Nationalisation and globalization of TFM (Northees are busy copying some TFM tunes!)
  4. Improving the awareness and music knowledge among masses
  5. Song picturisations
  6. Variety of vocals (number of singers and types of singers - eg : kids singing rather than make SJ do it all the time!)
  7. Variety in instrumentation - range of instruments and sounds has improved
  
  May be, it might be a good idea to see both the positives and negatives in order to arrive at a conclusive comment on if there has been an overall degeneration of TFM!!
  
  chandy
  
  
• From: Swami (@ 208.237.135.12) on: Tue Sep 26 17:17:10 EDT 2000
  
  1. Technology improvements - in recording, sound effects, overall quality of music delivery etc.
  This is just like an application layer over the core. The core (points rajaG mentioned) is getting corrupted and dirty. No use in having a fancy outlook when the inner basics are ugly.
  
  2. Marketing of TFM
  Point accepted. But at times don't you feel too much of hype is created ;-)
  
  3. Nationalisation and globalization of TFM (Northees are busy copying some TFM tunes!)
  Totally agree. I would say this has come to light nowadays. Previously Anand-Miland and Co would copy blatantly from IR and claim that Lord Brahma gave that tune. But atleast now everyone realizes. This is not an improvement to TFM, but an improvement on part of the listeners.
  
  4. Improving the awareness and music knowledge among masses
  I don't agree with this at all. How many people in today's mass know and have a feel about proper and good compositions. Most of them need a tapping beat and rythm.
  
  5. Song picturisations
  This roots back to Mahendran and Balu Mahendra. They revolutionized this way back in early 80's.
  
  6. Variety of vocals (number of singers and types of singers - eg : kids singing rather than make SJ do it all the time!)
  Variety accepted. But how about quality of delivery ;-) God save Tamizh
  
  7. Variety in instrumentation - range of instruments and sounds has improved
  Not at all accepted. Usage of natural instruments have literally died. Its monotonous to hear the Cello, synth flute in all the songs.
  
  I just go with all the points rajaG had mentioned. I short TFM's state today is disturbing.
  
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ 192.11.221.101) on: Tue Sep 26 17:20:48 EDT 2000
  
  Chandy,
  
  1. Technology improvements - in recording, sound effects, overall quality of music delivery etc.
  
  How does TFM come into play here. Is'nt that a natural process?
  
  2. Marketing of TFM
  I would'nt call it marketing. Its abuse. They have sold absolute junk.
  
  3. Nationalisation and globalization of TFM (Northees are busy copying some TFM tunes!)
  
  Its is another point to validate rajaG's statement. Northies copying us indicates we are degenerating at a rapid pace.
  
  4. Improving the awareness and music knowledge among masses
  
  I suppose if that was the case, ARR would'nt be in this position. On the contrary the masses have lost the ability to discern. They simply do'nt care for quality.
  
  5. Song picturisations
  No comments.
  
  6. Variety of vocals (number of singers and types of singers - eg : kids singing rather than make SJ do it all the time!)
  
  Singers these days do'nt sing with emotions and they completely lack clarity of expression.
  
  7. Variety in instrumentation - range of instruments and sounds has improved
  
  Thats the joke of the century.
  
  rajaG, for a change I agree with all yout points.
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.53) on: Tue Sep 26 17:28:09 EDT 2000
  
  which MDs did Ajith, vijay command to copy? Deva? if so, they need'nt since Deva does it on his own;)) anyway, i would like to know the source for this news RajaG.
  
  Chandy is partially right. the plusses are there. but the minuses seem to outweigh them as against in the past.
  
  I think there are actually a combination of factors that result in this state and its not just one big reason. some , which i can think of straightaway are
  
  1. musical tastes of the youngsters who form the core of the theatre audiences. they prefer fast food to a slow sumptuous lunch in saravana bhavan;)) (sorry for using this analogy quite often;)) )
  
  2. more publicity via sat TV as compared to the 80s. in the past cassettes used to be the prime pre-release hype. people used to flock to manirathnam's movies after hearing the cassettes which used to get released 2 or 3 months in advance.
  
  audiences have become wiser and selective now. they care to actually judge the film based on songs, previews, starcast etc. before deciding to go. the importance of songs have diminished but the songs stil play a part no doubt.
  
  3. No single MD out there who has the talent as well as the quest to succeed that IR of the 80s and ARR of the 90s had./ as a result, dull and uninspiring music. ARR thinks he already has done enough to TFM after doing 50+ films and has been concentarting more on international projects and is asking the likes of Sabesh-Murali to do RR.
  
  IR's case is even worse. he ends up doing films for mediocre movies with even more mediocre actors(latest example Ilayavan) and as a result churns out insipid numbers.
  
  4. Lack of musical knowledge on the part of directors/producers. in the 80s atleast we were almost sure that any movie by balachander, sridhar, mahendran etc. would have good songs.
  now, save for mediocre manirathnam or shankar we cannot say with certainity that a particular actor or director's film will have good songs.
  
  even Kamal has stooped down to the level of Deva.
  
  5. this opinion is purely subjective. To me, it sounds like almost all facets of TFM have been to a extent explored. what MSV couldnt do, IR did. and what IR couldnt do with his recording/soundmixing etc. ARR did. to a listener like me it sounds like as if it might be impossible for anyone to chart a new path atleast in the near future. In other words TFM itself has come a full circle;))look at bharadwaj or karthik raja are doing. nothing new.
  
  I hope Iam proved wrong in my opinion soon.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.53) on: Tue Sep 26 17:29:59 EDT 2000
  
  Wow!! quick responses;))
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Tue Sep 26 17:46:22 EDT 2000
  
  3. Nationalisation and globalization of TFM (Northees are busy copying some TFM tunes!)
  
  This is a not that true. does a decent ethnic TFM tune like 'kannodu kanbathellam', 'Ennavale adi ennavale' or 'Semmpoove poove' becomes a hit in North india as it did in tamil?. All that works is mukkabla, hamma hamma, mastana. (sure kannalane, ingi idupazhga, rosappu are 3 exceptions).
  BTW in recent times hindi songs copied to tamil is just fraction of its vice versa. And the latter is mostly attributed to the fact that many tamil movies are being remade.
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Tue Sep 26 17:55:21 EDT 2000
  
  to rajaG's list
  8) Kamal, BR and many are just ready to take ARR's hindi tunes and ready to plug it in their movie. I dont know if it means TF sucks or TFM sucks.
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 131.230.25.38) on: Tue Sep 26 18:19:47 EDT 2000
  
  Swami, Anand and vijay : Good to read your views.
  
  >>1. Technology improvements- in recording, sound
  >>effects, overall quality of music delivery etc.
  >This is just like an application layer over the >core.
  
  Technololgy has become a core-component of music - quality of recording and sound engineering have become essential parts of the entire package! And even now, when the technology is available, there are few hindi MDs and even some TFM MDs whose recording quality is worse than average!! Even if there are tech-improvements in general, the ability to exploit them and use them has certainly improved in TFM!
  
  >>6. Variety of vocals (number of singers and
  >> types of singers - eg : kids singing rather
  >> than make SJ do it all the time!)
  >Variety accepted. But how about quality of
  > delivery ;-) God save Tamizh
  
  For every saadana sargam, we also have anu radha srirams and Sujathas who have emerged. We never had this many singers in TFM before!
  
  And I'd rather listen to Saadana Sargam's tamizh than bhavadhaarini's voice anyday!!! :-))
  
  kk, about "ethnic tunes" - the songs you mentioned are all essentially carnatic in nature -and their popularity even among tamil nadu masses is relatively less than the "hip-hop" ones. A "vetri kodi kattu", "muqabla" gets the attention of patti-thotti makkal more than "ennavale"!! Songs like "poo pookum osai", "vennilave" (sapnay songs), "chinna chinna aasai" became popular even in hindi-belt.
  
  P.S: Anand, when you participate in discussion here, I'd appreciate if you can tone down your comments, and present them in the best way possible. Phrases like "no comments", "joke of the century' etc do sound a bit rude. You can welcome to present opposing views and arguments, but present them in better ways. Look at Swami's post and Vijay's - they are good rebuttals!! I see a degeneration of discussion in newtfmpage in general in recent days - let us not be party to it (NOM).
  
  chandy
  
  
• From: SL (@ 208.49.174.99) on: Tue Sep 26 20:09:03 EDT 2000
  
  Chandy,Is newtfmpage in a vicious cycle of degeneration ?:-))
  Mahadeva, NOM.
  The range of sounds has improved , not instruments (infact the reverse is true).
  
  

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