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Why was 78-82 songs of IR considered his best?

Topic started by Prabhu (@ 203.90.94.162) on Fri Oct 4 08:37:47 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

A curious question. It is commonly perceived that THE BEST of IR's hit songs came in the 78-82 period. Why is it so?
It does appear that IR songs of this period had lengthy pallavis with heavy orchestration(consider 'Ore naal unai naan, Kanmaniye kaathal enbathu, Poonthaliraada, songs from Alaigal oivathillai, Nizhalgal,etc). The post-85 songs had pallavis that were more or less toned down and gradually culminated with greater emphasis on melody in the charanams.
Your comments?

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Responses:

• From: Prabhu (@ 203.90.94.162) on: Fri Oct 4 08:45:18 EDT 2002
  
  A trademark I could help noticing in the post-85 songs was that the pallavi acted as a mellow build-up for the interlude and charanams to take over. Melody was IR's strength and it showed in his charanams...mostly you find them comparatively more melodious and emphatic than the pallavi.
  This is very much true for pathos songs.
  Of course, there were exceptions - songs like Poomaalaiye, Raakamma, Oh Oh Megam,etc which were basically happy songs.
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.90.94.162) on: Fri Oct 4 08:46:12 EDT 2002
  
  "could help noticing" == "couldn't help noticing"
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.90.94.162) on: Sun Oct 6 22:34:18 EDT 2002
  
  Inaapa ithu? puthu thread, orutharum varala..
  wrong timela release panniteen :)
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Mon Oct 7 01:13:49 EDT 2002
  
  Nan irukkiren Prabhu!
  
  That was his best period because he experimented with WCM interludes which IS his core strength.It was not a well -explored territory by earlier MDs.More so he put his WCM training to full effect.
  
  The Stero recordings following Priya gave a good feel and finish to the product.
  
  The songs had better lyrics.KD was there till 1982.Vali was playing a good second.Rather the lyricists had a say and they were contributing too for a good song to come out.
  
  The youthful exuberance was there.By 1985 with no one to compete the complacnecy set in.Even then no one could reach his levels till..
  
  
  
• From: geeth (@ 213.121.248.170) on: Mon Oct 7 05:34:39 EDT 2002
  
  quiet a lot of IR's 3 saranam songs seem to be in this period. which means a long duration song, more interlude music and a lasting effect.
  
  the titles of IR movies in this period gave his music credit in a simple way -
  Music : Illayairaja. One of my uncle who was an ardent fan of IR in this period used to say - 'this IR is just superb and giving great music. people have given him titles like 'Innisai Illaval et all' and still in the credits its so simple - music: Illaiyaraja, no other extra titles added. what a great man! we must learn to be very simple like him!'.
  
  And as OISG said, he revolutionised tfm with his stereo recordings and i also feel the charm in giving a new type of recording was felt in the songs of that period.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.206.213.13) on: Mon Oct 7 14:16:41 EDT 2002
  
  Prabhu,
  At last an IR thread discussing something relevant. Some more reasons:
  -IR took more time to complete a movie pre-82, but post-82 producers and directors were played 6-8 tunes from which they had to pick what they liked as opposed to the tailor-made songs of the past.
  -The split with SPB gave way to the atrocity called Mano.
  -Many instrument specialists, assistants left IR who coincidentally went with a streamlined process of tabla, violin, flute for many mid-tempo songs.
  -Gone were the veenai interludes that sparkled such songs as Thaalaattu, nam thana nam thana; gone were the mirudhangam interludes that sparkled the phase when TV Gopalakrishnan collaborated with IR; gone too was the brass section used to spectacular effect in soundtracks such as Priya, Ullaasa Paravaigal, Kaatrinilae Varum Geetham.
  -Post-82 ushered in the big budget creations by AVM that gave no room for musical creativity. AVM brought the mandatory disco song, which meant at least one lousy song in every movie.
  -Production costs increased and the golden period of late 70s/early 80s wound down with the less risk, more profit mindset.
  -VM left and wasn't replaced by someone better or even equal. Vaali, despite his obvious talent, took over and churned out the worst songs of his overly long career. (Couldn't Muthulingam, Mu.Metha, Pulamaipithan or at least Gangai Amaran been used more often?)
  -IR started penning lyrics, singing more often and began dictating starting lines for most songs.
  -By then, having listened to his works for 10 years, his songs became part of the lore but they also weren't surprising or fresh as they once were.
  
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.44.47) on: Mon Oct 7 17:08:49 EDT 2002
  
  Punnagai Mannan, Mouna Raagam, Idhayathai Thirudathe, Moha Mull, Sindhu Bhairavi, Muthal Mariyathai,Salangai Oli, Sippikkul Muthu and scores of other movies came after 1982.. So his best period is 1976-1994. So don't try to shorten his peak period. Whenever you people talk about IR you should also talk about his contribution to astonishing BGMs. A true and complete music fan will take every bit of music into account. Actually his standard of music was always good. Standard of fans are less. It is like wearing a black glass and saying "Everything is dark".
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.206.213.13) on: Mon Oct 7 17:54:57 EDT 2002
  
  Awe,
  Everybody's allowed to write their own opinion. This is what they usually call a discussion forum. If you can't digest another's opinion maybe you should change your name to "aah".
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.45.160) on: Mon Oct 7 18:11:23 EDT 2002
  
  Yea Udhaya.. that was my opinion.. anything wrong with that?
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Mon Oct 7 18:25:20 EDT 2002
  
  Yes..after a long period of exposure to somebody's style of music we find the music to be stale. But are you guys sure the date is 1982 ? Seems like there were quite a number of good film songs from IR after that (checked raaja.com, vikram, sippikkul muthu, etc came in 1986 !!!)
  
  
• From: Following Awe's Order sincerely (@ 12.162.224.6) on: Mon Oct 7 19:00:57 EDT 2002
  
  IR is a good boy.He studied in school.
  
  His BGM's are very very good.
  
  (As Awe said whenever we talk abt IR we shud also talk abt his BGM)
  :-)
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.206.213.13) on: Mon Oct 7 19:06:17 EDT 2002
  
  Awe,
  Okay, you've simmered down your tone, we can discuss now. Your previous post says that the standard of fans has gone down but IR's standard is the same. However subtly put, this is still a provocation. This still means that if others don't agree with your taste, their standards are low.
  
  Why should I agree with your opinion that 1994 is the end of his peak? I'm not trying to shorten his peak, what do I gain by it? I'm calling it the way I see it. Now, don't every fan list the other 790 movies not mentioned here. If you consider his music today is great, good for you. I won't say your standard is low or high, it's just your standard and it's different from mine.
  
  And can we get an accurate count of the number of movies that IR actually did the BGM for? I've liked a lot of the BGM scores in his movies. But I wonder, if he was going around giving musical notes to his assistants to conduct the song recordings for at least 50 movies in a given month in the mid-80s, why would he spend laborious time with BGM? (I was there at the song recording ceremony of "Eeramaana Rojavae", IR wasn't there, his assistants did it with IR's notes. I was told by my friend, a distributor and studio owner that IR rarely spent time at the song recording sessions).
  
  Why wouldn't he ask his assistants to do the BGM too? In fact, MSV was invited to fill in because IR was overcommitted with projects. Wouldn't BGM have been the perfect task to delegate? Think about the volume of movies and the BGM tasks for each movie. Songs, okay, he's a fast composer and his assistants could work with his notes. But BGM, he had to watch each scene to know what music to apply, didn't he? Do you guys believe that he had the time to do BGM for the 800+ movies?
  
  
• From: MPR (@ 68.82.36.177) on: Mon Oct 7 19:33:26 EDT 2002
  
  Udhaya:
  
  In fact, MSV was invited to fill in because IR was overcommitted with projects............Do you guys believe that he had the time to do BGM for the 800+ movies?
  
  I have heard this statement in this forum many times. If MSV had helped IR in BGM, wouldn't he have done them in his style? Could you please list the movies which you think had MSV's style of BGM in IR's movies? Just curious :)
  
  My assumption is MSV might have helped him conducting the score not in composing, but I may be wrong.
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.45.160) on: Mon Oct 7 19:38:40 EDT 2002
  
  Udhaya i do believe he did have time to do BGM. That is his plus point. His speed. In one of his interview he told how meticulously he compiled BGM for the movie "Dalapathy". There is a song "Puthama Poo Poothadu". I think it is not in the movie. He used the instrumental of that song when Rajini marries Bhanupriya. He also quoted the several instances in a movie since the movie was loosely based on Karnan character. I was told by my friend he was always there at the recording center. Well.. that was easy to say. The reason why people call him genius is because of his speed. He scored 9 songs for Chinna Thambi in 40 minutes. In one week he came out with 7 songs for Hey Ram. Who do you think will get credit if a BGM is good? Obviously Music Director. It is his job and responsibility. This is why i am forced to say standard of fans are less. Baseless and unsubstantiated arguments to put down IR's classical work in BGM. Most of his great compositions follow the grammar of Western Classic. His choice of instruments will vary and suit the occasion. He also varies the tempo according to the situation. I have the BGM of En Bommukutti Ammavukku. Just listen how he varies according to the situation. Just because other MDs are lazy guys don't put IR in that category.
  He does it with lots of dedication.
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.45.160) on: Mon Oct 7 19:41:06 EDT 2002
  
  MPR you are right. Composition is done only by IR. It might have been conducted by others.
  
  
• From: Lord LabakuDas (@ 12.162.224.6) on: Mon Oct 7 19:51:46 EDT 2002
  
  assume it as 800 movies..
  800 * 2.5 hours = 2000 hours
  2000/24 hours = 84 days
  It takes 84 days to watch all the movies continously..
  What i have heard abt IR is he usually watches the scenes once or twice and write notes immediately..
  he may not be there for all recordings..but notes are his..
  he is more dedicated than anyother MD..IMHO.
  I agree with Awe that he should have composed for all the movies BGM's..abt conducting the recording i am not sure..
  
  
• From: archivist (@ 152.163.189.230) on: Mon Oct 7 21:21:36 EDT 2002
  
  IR came in 1976 right? so, why 1978? he had superb hits in 76 and 77 itself. But, Udhaya' analysis is correct. so many changes happened. the brass sound is totally gone. like "sorgam madhuviley" "appane appane" for example. IR standardized the process. that is how songs of Chinna Thambi came about in 40 minutes I think!
  
  
  
  
  

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