Topic started by arav (@ 143.117.36.245) on Mon Mar 4 16:54:52 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
It is another milestone for India. Ravi shankar won another grammy at the age of 81
http://grammy.aol.com/awards/grammy/
Responses:
- From: hariharan (@ 64.19.160.188)
on: Mon Mar 4 17:24:47 EST 2002
late news, thanks anyway
- From: :-) (@ 128.107.253.44)
on: Tue Mar 5 03:16:49 EST 2002
Yet another example of marketing winning over talent...Vilayat khan is the King with Sitar...lotsa ppl don't even know him.
- From: arav (@ 143.117.11.25)
on: Wed Mar 6 11:44:05 EST 2002
:-)
You got very well mate. You need to be good friend of white mans to be famous. Eg. Ravi Shankar linked to Beatles, LS Subra with Yehudi and currently ARR with Webber.
- From: AVR (@ 143.127.3.10)
on: Thu Mar 7 00:49:05 EST 2002
From: :-) (@ 128.107.253.44) on: Tue Mar 5 03:16:49 EST 2002
Yet another example of marketing winning over talent...Vilayat khan is the King with Sitar...lotsa ppl don't even know him.
Well Vilayat Khan, Shahid Parvez...are excellent,fabulous sitarists..I have attended some of their live concerts..however your statement about market over talent is in bad taste. Ravi Shankar has had close associations with western musicians for several decades.He has been a forerunner of fusion music - therefore its obvious he gets popular in the west. Vilayat Khan is probably a more "conservative" musician (and there's nothing wrong in that).
Your statement seems to suggest that the Grammy that RS got has more to do with his marketing skills than talent, and thats not true. RS's talent is as unquestionable as Vilayat Khan's.
Now arav,
ARR with Webber.
Okay, since ARR MUST be dragged in everywhere -- how about IRs association(s) with Western musicians ? The use of an orchestra from Hungary for the score of Guru etc??
- From: O_IS_G (@ 193.188.97.152)
on: Thu Mar 7 04:24:05 EST 2002
AVR , you are asking for trouble.
IRA (Ilayaraja Army) & Talifans are waiting.
- From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132)
on: Thu Mar 7 04:39:16 EST 2002
:-)))))))))
Good one O_IS_G.
(Sorry tigger, I cudn't help laughing at this one.)
- From: AVR (@ 143.127.3.10)
on: Thu Mar 7 05:08:16 EST 2002
Wow, its really mazing how a thread on Ravi Shankar appears on a tamil film music website...but its even better how the name of IR (Oooooops - His Majesty the greatest highly prolific genius sangeet-posshanam Isaignani Ilayarajaji) appears on every thread including this one.
arav,
You need to be good friend of white mans to be famous
Next time tell His Majesty to be a good friend of only black men (ooops mans) to be famous.
- From: AVR (@ 143.127.3.10)
on: Thu Mar 7 05:08:56 EST 2002
Wow, its really amazing how a thread on Ravi Shankar appears on a tamil film music website...but its even more hilarious how the name of IR (Oooooops - His Majesty the greatest highly prolific genius sangeet-posshanam Isaignani Ilayarajaji) appears on every thread whether it has anything to do with His Majesty or not,including this one.
arav,
You need to be good friend of white mans to be famous
Next time tell His Majesty to be a good friend of only black men (ooops mans) to be famous.
- From: O_IS_G (@ 193.188.97.152)
on: Thu Mar 7 08:31:27 EST 2002
Colonial Hangover Namakku pogave pogathu!Someone complained that Amir is saying his Lagan is a Indo-British production to get nominated for Oscar.Kalaimamani rangekku kondu vanthutingale appa!
Anand Amritarj padangal en innum Oscare vangavillai?Isn't Vijay and he friend of white mans?
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Thu Mar 7 22:50:46 EST 2002
This is RS's third grammy. If it was his first, one could say it was "tokenism." If it was his second, one could say that he has some good friend's in high places, so they honoured him again. But third time? Can we settle for talent and excellence at least now? Or does the man have to prove his legendary status again - just for the residual skeptics?
The way I see it: "Whites" appreciating "brown" talent is not all that unusual. It seems to me, more and more, that "browns" have an aversion to appreciating our own "brown" excellence.
If we have a colonial "hangover" that is OUR problem. After all, the "white" man packed in the "raj" 55 years ago!!
- From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132)
on: Fri Mar 8 03:01:02 EST 2002
This reminds me of the thread about Do we deserve ARR by ekam satyam, when some guy said something like ARR was piggy-backing on MJ. The idea of a black/brown man befriending or having associations wit a white man gets translated as the coloured man sucking up or getting favours from the white man.
I think RS deserves wat he's got.
- From: :-) (@ 128.107.253.44)
on: Fri Mar 8 03:33:21 EST 2002
>>Kalaimamani rangekku kondu vanthutingale appa!<<
Oscars are no great things either....How cud a piece of S**T like american beauty bag an oscar ??Go and see what miramax does during oscars...
Hope u know the amount of lobbying that goes during the screening times.
- From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132)
on: Fri Mar 8 03:56:44 EST 2002
pulikkum thiraachai
someone pls translate tat for avr.
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Fri Mar 8 09:21:07 EST 2002
Sour Grapes - trans. for AVR :-)
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Fri Mar 8 09:28:03 EST 2002
Hi :-) -
I mentioned the same thing - about the Oscars being a huge "commercial" scam - in the Lagaan for Oscars thread. Good to see that someone else thinks that the Oscars are no big deal...they are just deals!
- From: AVR (@ 203.197.82.185)
on: Sat Mar 9 00:01:14 EST 2002
whynot - if i am not mistaken, i am not the only one asking for translations :-))
naaz ahmed - in what context did u mention sour grapes?? I didnt quite get u - :-((
- From: AVR (@ 203.197.82.185)
on: Sat Mar 9 00:02:21 EST 2002
naaz ahmed-
Oscars are no big deal...they are just deals!
that was very well put. (english is quite punny a language.)
- From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161)
on: Sat Mar 9 01:43:07 EST 2002
:-) I saw American Beauty" and it's no piece of s**t...it is a very open and direct film and that would have hurt the sensitivities of many...in fact its a very bold film...and I think for once the Oscars got it right !
- From: K (@ 63.38.219.192)
on: Sat Mar 9 03:10:23 EST 2002
Talifans-naa?
- From: No fan (@ 210.212.160.34)
on: Sat Mar 9 04:59:11 EST 2002
About RS : when he bagged the Bharat Ratna, even Pandit Jasraj vehemently made it clear that Pandit RS was a big time manipulator!
Look at the way Pandit. RS married his guru's daughter Annapurna Devi long before RS was popular - he married her then to get the popularity through his guru and once he became popular and famous ditched his wife and his reputation as a philanderer is a legendary as his reputation in playing Sitar - the autobiography of actor Saeed Jaffrey, Pandit RS is often referred to, as someone who had women for his post dinner 'desserts'! the narration includes a statement from a French actress who was invited to Pt.RS's home for a dinner party and says "RS had his glass of wine and then he had me" ! Now RS had a child through a woman young enough to be his grand daughter and that too when that woman was already married to someone else! WHile philandering and womanising is an accepted norm amongst senior artistes excelling in their respective fields, RS ditching his Guru (without whose help, he would not have learnt his basics) is unacceptable -
The above was shared by a Bengali friend of mine who is big time classical music connoisseur and does not praise/criticise at the drop of a hat!
ANyway, RS knows the world, is street-smart and worldy wise and might go on to bag another dozen Grammies, but from I have heard of him, he is one of the most charmingly manipulative 'geniuses' India has ever seen
To be a 'Genius' in today's world, one needs more than just native 'genius' -example : Pandit Ravi Shankar
- From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132)
on: Sat Mar 9 05:25:47 EST 2002
No fan, what does it matter what this guy did in his personal life? I believe the point of interest here is his artistic work and not how many women he slept with or how young they were. There are thousands of manipulative womanising men out there who did not produce the same kind of work RS has. No one here is idolising him and his lack of moral worth (if indeed wat u say is true) does not make him deserve the awards any less.
Awards in general are always susceptible to internal politics. As much as they can't be used to gauge an artiste's worth, you can't argue tat everyone who receives them do not deserve them either.
- From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63)
on: Sat Mar 9 10:13:22 EST 2002
Avr - the translation was just a translation - as requested by WhyNot, on your behalf. I was just translating his tamizh phrase - verbatim - for your benefit. Bas.
WhyNot - you are bang on with your last post. Personal aspects of an artiste's life are immaterial (I could pull out reams on the great Kannadasan which would make RS's dalliances look like a teddy-bear's picnic) and it is their artistry that matters. While awards are not necessarily a marker or recognition of talent - I believe, RS has proved himself to be an "institution" time and time again. Who he knows, who lobbys for him, who advances his name...(like his philandering) are all extraneous. Either you believe RS to be an artist par excellence or you don't. That's what counts. I think (personally) that RS is one name that has made Indian proud, no matter where they live or make their home. And nobody can doubt that - grammys or no grammys.
- From: O_IS_G (@ 193.188.97.152)
on: Sun Mar 10 01:31:01 EST 2002
Ok!Oscars deal endre vaithukolvom.Then whatelse is a benchmark?Lux awards,screen ..?Tamizhargalin Idhya Simmasanam?
We shall doubt the legitimacy of Oscar awards till we get one.
Lobbying...commercial .. blah blah ..Boss there should be a cut off point where real excellance alone has its say.I still feel that, beyond all typical US terminologies(Lobbying etc..)there is a certain scope for talent in Oscars and hence the credibility.
I saw the "Crouching tiger.." .The music was real soothing,pleasant and i felt it deserved its Oscar every bit.
- From: AVR (@ 203.197.82.119)
on: Sun Mar 10 01:40:50 EST 2002
Whynot - Your post is essentially true. Ravi Shankar is an artist par excellence and its mainly his artistry that brought him those accolades which he truly deserves. He is prob. the only one who experimented (and even pioneered) fusion music, amongst all the sitarists of his generation. Therefore its obvious that he is more recognised in the West than say Vilayat Khan, who by no means is an ordinary artist. But VK is a more conservative artist. RS may not have necessarily manipulated or lobbied for a Grammy. But he also has a charming personality which probably is yet another factor for his massive popularity, yet its a tertiary one. The main reason IS his superlative artistry.
Now no fan,
About RS : when he bagged the Bharat Ratna, even Pandit Jasraj vehemently made it clear that Pandit RS was a big time manipulator!
I even heard Jasraj took his statements back. Nevertheless, if in our country Ravi Shankar really had to manipulate to get that award, then boy oh boy - its a sorry state of affairs. Do you mean to say he did NOT deserve it? If such people have to take to wrong means to get due recognition, then I personally feel they **should** resort to those wrong means. Strangely, nobody passed these kinda statements when MGR got that Bharat Ratna award, eh???
- From: O_IS_G (@ 193.188.97.152)
on: Sun Mar 10 02:56:40 EST 2002
AVR
I heard that Vinayak Ram also got a grammy for the album "Planet drum".VR will be the last person to do dirty things like lobbying,maipulating etc..
MGR patri .. Sorry ..
In the last 3 decades he was the only politician who really understood what a poor child's hunger means.That Bharat Ratna was for understanding the human values,despite being a politcian.In this context i suggest you read Kumudam s editorial when the noon meal scheme was introduced.It was titled "Eavv".
Athu manitha neyathirkaga kodukkappattathu!
History would be kinder towards MGR than you and I.Most of us would have been assured of our every next meal during childhood and school days.But i had the opportunity to meet hundreds of children who were not sure of that.There is a tamil proverb "Vai vazhathavittalum Vayiru Vazhthum".
Political interests and ambitions were there on the Rajiv side but MGR still deserved it.
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