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TFMin isai kuyil PSa, SJa, Chithravaa?

Topic started by Shanmugam Murugappan (@ ifmxmenlo.informix.com) on Thu Dec 3 16:32:36 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi all,

I just surfed thro' the net and happened to see the profile of PS. She was heralded as the "Lata Mangeshkar" of TFM. Does she deserve that crown more than SJ and Chithra?

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Responses:

• From: Sanks (@ charibdis.co.douglas.ne.us) on: Thu Dec 3 17:45:43 EST 1998
  
  Endrum innikum songs
  
  My vote for PS
  
  
• From: JN (@ spider-tk071.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Dec 3 21:24:31 EST 1998
  
  My first preferance is P.S.
  She expresses all sorts of feelings very nicely.
  I like S.J and Chitra too but P.S is the best.
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Fri Dec 4 01:29:00 EST 1998
  
  My choice is SJ ,bcos of her versatility.
  
  
• From: RV (@ 2cust104.tnt1.scl1.da.uu.net) on: Fri Dec 4 02:01:56 EST 1998
  
  IMHO, Chitra hasnt reached the legendary status of PS and SJ yet.
  
  I vote for PS because she could maintain her dominance for a much longer time than SJ. SJ had her moments, but PS was #1, 2 and 3 and then followed the rest.
  
  But I do agree that SJ was more versatile - at least she had more occasions to showcase her versatility than PS. e.g. Poda Poda Bokke song ;-)
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Fri Dec 4 08:09:34 EST 1998
  
  ada namma L R Eswariya maranthutteengaLe. shanmugaaa!!! athu ponra kural iniyum ketkavendumappa
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Fri Dec 4 13:10:37 EST 1998
  
  Cram,
  
  LREa marakka mudiyaadhu. But her voice was not suitable for all kinds of songs and she dominated in her own kinds like "elandapazham" songs and "amman" songs and all. So, IMO, I don't think she can come in the above list.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss07.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Fri Dec 4 13:54:05 EST 1998
  
  What is the funda behind "Lata Mangeshkar of TFM" ? I'd rather call Lata the PS of HFM and Asha Bhonsle the SJ of HFM to boot, so there ! And I'd love to see LM win an MSV award for excellence, just like they are granting IR and KJY the LM Award !
  
  Apart from that, I think SJ is most suitable for TFM. But then I also think that IR is the most suitable MD for TFM, so I can't really be blamed can I ? :)
  
  Another thing, this discussion already exists in the archives under 3 or 4 different avatars. Perhaps Shanmugam can revive one of them and continue the disc. there !
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.26.37) on: Mon Dec 7 20:14:17 EST 1998
  
  If you like to compare SJ and PS I suggest checking out the song "isaiyarasi" in Ramaswamy gireesan's site. I am giving the link here. It needs real player 4 or a better version.
  
  http://wormhole.m59.big.ac.at/~grama/arrow.gif
  
  This may dispel some notions about the Carnatic knowledge of IR. (I was of the opinion that it was MSV who did better justice to the Carnatic side.. but it changed)
  
  Regards
  
  Murali Sankar
  
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.26.37) on: Mon Dec 7 20:16:31 EST 1998
  
  Oops!it does not work.. okay go to Ramaswamy's page and get in to the rare ragas of Raja. there you will find this
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ elroy.cs.wisc.edu) on: Tue Dec 8 18:47:23 EST 1998
  
  Srinath: Yeah its unfair giving "LM" award to IR - one of my constant grudges is that, atleast in HFM, singers are much more well known than MDs. I think that's a very unfortunate trend. For all her singing abilities, IMO, Lata has achieved far less than IR in music.
  
  Anyway, these awards don't make much sense. Even Bhupen hazaarika has won the Dada Saheb Phalke award !!!!
  
  
• From: karthi (@ g184.grainger.uiuc.edu) on: Tue Dec 8 22:11:19 EST 1998
  
  I think this discussion has gone off track. But here to bring it back to what it was.
  
  Srinath only seconds what MGR has confounded:
  
  That Lata should be called the PS of the North rather than the reverse.
  
  Thanks Srinath for bringing it here.
  
  As for PS voice, there's no one on this earth or no instrument on this earth that can match up with PS's voice.
  
  It's crystal clear and ultimately melodious.
  
  No one can near her in that be it Lata or Janaki or Chitra.
  
  Lata's voice is very expressive and very high pitched that my friend who's a Lata Fan used to say she can lift any song to any heights. (Eg: 'There Mere Beech Me' from Ek Thuje Ke Liye) Janaki is incomparable in her high pitched voice. (Eg: 'Chinnan Chiriya Vanna Paravai' from Kunkumam). Chitra's like replacing those days' PS by having her voice suitable for any heroine. (Eg: 'Anjali' from duet, 'Maana Madura' from minsaara kanavu, 'Thathithom' from Azhagan, 'Naan Oru Sindu' from Sindu Bhairavi').
  
  But to excell them all PS comes with a voice which is
  1.clear,
  2.sweet,
  3.youthful,
  4.expressive,
  5.standard and unchanged over the years *,
  6. suitably high pitched,
  7. easily adaptable (to any heroine),
  8. has unmatched clarity **,
  9. inimitable ***
  10. never ever boring.
  
  *even though strain shows up in all the songs she sang this decade except 'Kannukku Mai Azhagu' where it's not very obvious.
  
  ** she's the only one with the ability to sing any song with just that unmatched clarity.
  
  *** there have been and are people who can imitate any singer but no one could ever sing like PS. (For you if you didn't know, Sumant Kalyanpur in Hindi was called 'Poor Producer's Lata').
  
  Should I say anymore say PS is the best?
  
  I have to recall one of my friend's opinion. She used to say her favourite is SJanaki but the best voice is PS.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ g184.grainger.uiuc.edu) on: Tue Dec 8 22:18:50 EST 1998
  
  Have you all forgotten Vani Jayaram?
  
  Can anyone forget her if he or she hears one of these:
  
  1. Eazhu Swarangalukkul
  2. Naadhamenum Koyilile
  3. Nitham Nitham Nellu Choru
  4. Megame Megame
  5. Yaaradhu Sollamal Nenjalli Povadhu
  6. Azhagaana Ila Mangai kattil Koduthaal
  7. Mannulagil Indru Devan Irangi Varugiraan
  8. Pongum Kadalosai
  9. Kanden Engum Poomagal
  10. Nane Naana Yarodhaana
  
  
• From: N.C.Ramakrishna (@ hil-c45-008-vty134.as.wcom.net) on: Tue Dec 8 23:13:10 EST 1998
  
  IMO Chitra didnt reach the status PS and SJ are enjoying. It is too early to compare Chitra with PS and SJ.
  
  As nobody could judge best amongst Lata and Asha in HFM, it is difficult best amongst PS and SJ. But I like PS than SJ. It doesnt mean that SJ is not good.
  
  
• From: N.C.Ramakrishna (@ hil-c45-008-vty134.as.wcom.net) on: Tue Dec 8 23:13:40 EST 1998
  
  IMO Chitra didnt reach the status PS and SJ are enjoying. It is too early to compare Chitra with PS and SJ.
  
  As nobody could judge best amongst Lata and Asha in HFM, it is difficult to judge amongst PS and SJ too. But I like PS than SJ. It doesnt mean that SJ is not good.
  
  
• From: N.C.Ramakrishna (@ hil-c45-008-vty134.as.wcom.net) on: Tue Dec 8 23:14:38 EST 1998
  
  Sorry for posting it twice
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 209-155-124.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Dec 9 00:53:38 EST 1998
  
  karthi:
  I have always felt that even Uma Ramanan puts in a lot of expression in her singing - atleast more than Chitra. But do you know something ? Uma Ramanan's expressions appear artificial and forced. There is more to expression than sighing or laughing. I have very specific reasons where I can pin-point and say, "There ! That's why I call SJ the best !" There have been many singers, including PS, who have sung under IR's baton. Why is it that I noticed these specifics only in SJ's songs ? PS undoubtedly has a sweet voice - but that alone does not make her the most suitable for TFM. SJ is tops in expression - to substantiate this, I would ask you to listen to first "Kannan Vandu Paaduginran". The entire song is glossed over with SJ's sophisticated rendition - she has sung it as any top class western singer on any stage in the world would sing. Point here being that she sung a western number as it should be sung - Madonna, Paula Abdul ellam picha vaanganum namma SJ kitta ! A good comparision would be "Idhu Oru Nila Kaalam" from Tic, Tic, Tic.
  
  Second would be "Chinna Chinna Vanna Kuyil". The second charanam starts with...
  "Menikkul kaatru vandhu mella thaan aada kanden
  Mangaikul kaadhal vellam, Gangai pol oda kanden"
  
  Musically and lyrically the stress is at 1. kaatru and 2. kaadhal. Listen to the way SJ sings 'kaatru'. You will really feel a cool breeze tingling up your spine ! Similarly, when she comes to 'kaadhal', her voice vibrates like a recoiling spring that magnifies the term several times over. I am yet to come across another singer who has done this.
  
  Even while pointing out these examples, I wish to maintain that based on sheer voice alone, SJ fares quite poorly. I watched a televised stage performance of her once - I had earlier heard that she sings very poorly on stage - throughout the performance she repeatedly kept making mistakes, like missing the beat, losing sruthi here and there, voice flattening out all of a sudden, etc. inspite of all this, I maintain that she is the only singer apart from SPB, and to a limited extent KJY, who has done justice to IR's music.
  
  The third example is from "Oh ! ho ! Megham Vandhadho", again from Mouna Raagam. This time, the lines are
  "Kaalgal yengeyum pogalam,
  Kaadhal illamal vaazhalam !
  Vanna minnalgalaay ninraadalaam,
  Vazhvin sangeetham paadalam..."
  
  Her enunciation of 'vanna' reminds me of melting butter...!
  
  Finally, a slightly controversial example - the song "Vellai pura onru". Again I would like to remind you of the 'recoiling' spring :) When SJ sings "Vellai pura onru", it makes KJY's "Vellai pura.." feel like a 'namuthupona appalam' !!! No singer in my memory has been able to incorporate that 440V spring in their voices - not PS, not Chitra (who I believe has the sweetest voice, with or without instruments), not Swarnalatha, who I am sure can screech at a higher pitch than Lata - frankly in my opinion, Lata is a over-hyped singer. These bollywood guys have this habit of creating idols to worship (I happen to think that Amitabh is a sligtly above average actor, that's all). Singerlaye bestu singer venuma ? Namma MS thaan. The only truely divine voice on earth. I am not overly religious. But MS is the only singer who can lift up my devotion level with just her expression.
  
  I could not resist adding this last example. SJ in "Kodiyile, malliya poo.."
  The lines are the ending lines in the first charanam
  
  "..solliputta vambu illa
  sollathaane, thembu illa
  indha thunbam yaaraala ?"
  
  Even if the lyrics were to be erased, the 'thembu illa' would have been obvious. The best part about this is that the tune dips (kudos to IR and the lyricist, the tune aptly portrays an ebb - the drain of emotional strength) exactly at 'thembu illa' and rises again at 'indha...'. It was a virtuoso performance by SJ, akin to a trapeze artist, letting go of one bar swinging down and at the last moment catching another to rise back towards the tent-tops. In that one split second, SJ steals my heart, mind and soul. I am not naturally prone to dissecting a singer's expressions, especially when I am drowned in IR's magic. But two people - SPB and SJ, can stand their own in any IR number. So what if she can't croon as sweetly any more ? Her voice is like childhood - was certainly there, probably the only part of our lives fully lived - gone forever, now, yet always remembered with great fondness. Performer - S.Janaki, thank you with all my heart.
  
  Karthi:
  Can you please justify why SJ/PS should be called the Lata of TFM when they have achieved as much if not more than Lata ? What makes Lata the reference point ? BTW, her voice has been unbearable since "Maine Pyar Kiya". Singing alongside SPB, her once majestic voice was reduced to little more than 'speaking' musically.
  
  Vani Jeyram is another impressive singer, but someone who suffers from the same lack of magic as SJ. I repeat again - SJ MAY NOT have the greatest voice, but damned if I don't think she has been the greatest singer in TFM (excluding, of course, our M.S.Subbulakshmi :))
  
  
• From: Sathish Kumar (@ palrel4.hp.com) on: Wed Dec 9 04:23:29 EST 1998
  
  SJ is the nightingale of the Century. The songs
  "Oh! Vasantha Raaja" from Neengal Kettavai.
  "Aayerram Thamarai" from Alaigal Oyvadillai.
  "Katril Endhan Geetham" from Jhonny.
  "Azhagiye Kannae" from Udhiri Pookal.
  All songs from Kadalora Kavidhaigal.
  Lot of examples can be given.
  
  

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