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Jazz based compositions of Ilaiyaraja

Topic started by pinchi srinivasan (@ 1cust17.tnt6.nyc3.da.uu.net) on Thu Mar 5 10:54:56 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Can any one list Jazz based /Jazz like songs of IR especially for people who think only ARR is the one who brought Jazz based songs in TMF.

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Responses:

• From: anon (@ ts17-8.slip.uwo.ca) on: Thu Mar 5 11:34:11 EST 1998
  
  What better example than "kAla kAla maga" from Punnagai mannan. Even Stephan Grapphelli, the great jazz violinst, would have approved!
  
  
• From: Nagarajan (@ 199.105.88.40) on: Thu Mar 5 16:09:34 EST 1998
  
  In 'solla thudikkudu manasu', 'poove sempoove'
  song has some jazz... I heard it was composed
  by Karthik Raja but I am not sure about it.
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ 199.105.88.40) on: Thu Mar 5 19:38:13 EST 1998
  
  Pinchi:
  
  Unga comments "Especially for people" padichuttu enakku sirippa varudhu :-)))
  Enna idhu ippadi adikkureenga :-)))) Enakku nijamavae Jazz based music IR pOttu irukkarrnnu theriyadhu. Inga post seidha irandu paadalgalum enakku migavum pidithavai, but they are based on Jazz music appdinnu therinju irukkala. Thanks for opening this topic. Anbudan.
  
  
• From: Rajesh (@ pdxss902.jf.intel.com) on: Thu Mar 5 20:30:52 EST 1998
  
  Nagarajan,
  
  KR would have been a kid when Solla thudikidhu manasu came. Also in the casette, IR speaks and while giving into to that song he talks about why he used Jazz and other type of music to bring out the emotions in the situation.
  
  
• From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Thu Mar 5 22:52:55 EST 1998
  
  What about "kanA kAnum kangal mella".
  The violin interludes are great in the style
  of jazz.
  
  mannAru
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Thu Mar 5 23:45:15 EST 1998
  
  mannAru: We are talking about IR's jazz.. not MSV.
  
  
• From: MADHAN (@ 202.41.117.55) on: Fri Mar 6 09:15:53 EST 1998
  
  "kokaarakko kozhi"," yedakku mudakkaana sarakku"
  - KALIGNAN.
  
  
• From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Fri Mar 6 13:02:03 EST 1998
  
  Does "Appappa thithikku unthan mutham " in Japaanil kalyaanaraaman fall in this.???
  
  
  
• From: N.GANESH (@ 202.54.37.18) on: Sun Mar 8 09:04:29 EST 1998
  
  IR'S song in the movie ENAKKUL ORUVAN
  "MAEGAM KOTTATUM AATAM UNDUUU.....".THE WAY ILLAYARAJA FINISHES THAT SONG IS ABSOLUTELEE FANTASTIC
  
  
  
• From: IRfan (@ cmrlab1.cmr.usf.edu) on: Sun Mar 8 10:02:13 EST 1998
  
  Do the songs
  1. pani vizhum malarvanam
  and
  2. nee thane enthan pon vasantham
  
  from ninaivellaam nithya fall into the jazz category?
  
  
• From: R.Krishnakumar (@ giasmdb.vsnl.net.in) on: Tue Mar 10 11:26:30 EST 1998
  
  Dei, Kalambungaaadaa ! There are 'n' songs that are totally
  jazzy (They are not jazz but... jazzy) that have been
  rendered by IR in the past, present and in the future
  too (Ignore my grammar). The list is endless
  Raja raja chozan, kannan vandhu - (2 TAIL KURRUVI)
  Roja poo adivandhadhu, magic journey (ANJALI)
  Mandram vandha, rain song from (MOUNA RAGAM)
  Almost every song in AGNI NATCHATRAM, APRIL-MAY, KONJI KONJI, ILAIYA NILA, .. all these songs and all those(IR's and IR's only) I cant.. keep typing all thru my life... have so much of western element in it be it in any form starting from pure western classical, carnatic, jazzy, rocky, folkish, dabban kuuthish,... any combination of any 'k' genres of music, including his own... makes things so so so ORGINALISCH !!! phew ! Even the totally folkish song from 'MUDHAL MARIYADHAI' (poongatthu thirumbua) has a sexy bass line in an interlude, even ninnukorri has a superb set of subtle , jazzy chords in the background, .. its all there.. its happening here in the ever enigmatic music of ILAIYARAAJA !!!!!!!a
  
  
• From: karthik (@ 207.78.88.252) on: Sat Mar 14 17:46:13 EST 1998
  
  I think the definition of jazz is that the one in which the performer takes a composition and tries to give his personal touch to it. I dont know if IR has given this freedom to his orchestra and recorded a song. IMHO ARR is more appropriate for jazz.
  
  
• From: pal (@ pc76.ece.umn.edu) on: Fri Mar 20 00:12:20 EST 1998
  
  Let me try to list only Jazz type of songs in this. I cant really define in words about what is jazz but I will go about listing only similar comps. It is also very difficult to separate a fusion and a jazz fusion. IMO, pani vizhum is a fusion and poove semboove is a jazz fusion. I hope I am making my point clear. I am very sure to define it in words, so I just rely on examples.
  
  First lets try to see what is jazz…
  
  It is a musical form. I don't know how to define a musical form. But roughly, it is a musical arrangement to convey a certain mood and/or message. That way, the disco music is that which brings a feelign of dance floor of the 80s. Rock finds its origins from the rebellous attitude of the hippies durign the vietnam war times. Many of the classical - all time best rock songs are sad and agitating in general.
  
  Musical forms come and go reflecting the changes in culture, fasion etc. Jazz is indeed one of the longer living musical forms. I am really sure of the origins of Jazz but there is this distinct american-ness to it. May be because many of the innovations in jazz happened in US.
  
  But Jazz has seen big changes from Gershwin to Armstrong. It makes it very difficult to define what is Jazz from my limited knowledge. One broad defenition is that it is where a player gets lot of freedom to show his virtuocity and imagination. This clearly is a demanding task in an arrangment where the composer has to keep a bass line, chord progression, rhythm and theme intact while letting the player pour his imagination! IMHO, IR is not the best MD for this kind of music. Nevertheless, he is blessed with this great violinist Narasiman. The jazz performance of kamal and co in the hotel when kamal gets introduced in Rajapaarvai is a great example of Jazz fusion of this example. I don't really know how to incorporate this kind of stuff into a film song.
  
  The other thing about Jazz is that it allows lot of improvisations. There are these improvisations which only jazz musicians can do. For example the wind ensembles of many Jazz musicians. I am not sure about any other names except armstrong. ARR has done a good job in 'hello mister ethir katchi' in IRUVAR.
  
  Then there is this really jazzy and complex (cranky!?) rhythm pattern. A good example of this is 'It is fixed ' ( the panthuvarali stuff ) in HTNI , especially the second half. But IMO these complex rhythm only spoils the appeal of the comps. The interludes of the 'poovE sempoovE' is a nice example.
  
  There is also these on stage improvisations of Keith Jarrot on Piano is more like a western alapana with his own improvisation structures. I don't know any example of this type of comp in TFM as such. But I find a lot of similar influences ( and not 'anand milind' type of influence!!! ) in IR.
  
  Jazz also has really really REALLY vague ( to say the least!! ) scales. Many Indian melakarthaaas which are totally disregarded as not so much aesthetic for western classical improvisations make very good jazz scales like chalanattai and panthuvarali. ( may be even jalaverali but I don't know any comps ).
  So finally to list :
  
  Kaalakaalamaaga has very good violin and piano jazz impro.
  Another notion is that if there is sax then it might most probably be jazz! Well I don't agree with this…
  
  Both manram vantha thendralukku and enna satham intha nEram is more like blues.
  The title music by kadri in duet is also more of alapana with drums rather than anything else.
  
  I don't really know what is the dividing line between old rock 'n roll and old jazz. IMO, many of MSV's songs have R&R influences like
  Enna paarvai undan paarvai
  Oh, little flower see your lover ( TMS has sung this but don't know anything else about this song! Call for SSK! J )
  The song by MGR and Jeya in thedi vantha maappilai thottu kaattava melai naattu sangeethathi … is a verygood example of jazz type IMO.
  
  The KR vijaya record dance in ootti varai uravu… J
  
  There are lot more… I am poor at recollecting songs…
  
  
  
  
• From: pal (@ pc76.ece.umn.edu) on: Fri Mar 20 00:24:29 EST 1998
  
  Some clarifications on typos: :-)
  
  I am NOT sure to define it in words
  
  I am NOT really sure about the origins of Jazz
  
  thanks for reading ...
  
  I thank MSK for sending me the BGM of Rajapaarvai...
  
  Surely one of the best in my cassette collection...
  
  
  
  
• From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Fri Mar 20 03:41:32 EST 1998
  
  >IMO these complex rhythm only spoils the appeal of the comps
  
  I would like to stress this. Though some (small) parts of a JAZZ composition may be good, i don't clearly see what is getting conveyed. (I'm make this comment after listening to a famous jazz composition for more than 10 times and trying my best to appreciate it.) It's so wavering. Maybe that's what one should appreciate! Any JAZZ expert can throw some light on this?
  
  Pal, I don't think you can call jazz as western alapanas. Indian classical alapanas IMO are focussed and clearer in their expression. Inga music konjam ramyamaa irukkum. This "ramyam"-ness is missing in jazz. what do you think?
  
  

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