Topic started by NaNbaN (@ hzarour.ap.bdi.gte.com) on Fri Apr 14 19:56:23 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
TFM has been debating 'Corruption' of Tamil Lyrics for longtime and offlate it seems to have increased tremendously (Thanks to vaali and VM)
My Argument is.....
Why should Lyrcist restrict themshelves to 'Pure' Tamil when a common man casually speaks atleast one English word per sentence. I cannot come up with pure Tamil in every sentence I speak. I guess that is case with everyone.
When Film characters express themshelves in a dialogue or song, they are expressing themshelves and I find no reason not to use Tamil when it is natural for the character. For example, it sounds natural for Educated Tamil Character to say "sorry" than to say "Mannithuvedunkal".
Songs are also supposed to be expression of characters, so why should the character consiously eliminate Tamil words and that too in song alone. Sounds weird!
Skeptic people want 'PURITY' song Lyrics whereas they are pretty comfortable with other parts of film to be 'IMPURE'. Hero can speak English at full length and he can wear western outfits...A 1940 Tanjavur girl can ask her hubby "can I hug you"(Thanks to Heyram). Every non-Tamil practice is allowed except for singing in English words. How would you like if ArvindSwamy Aijth & vijai comes in Tradiational Tamil dress say vayisstee & shirt all the time in all movies. (Hell how do u spell it). Weird tooo...
Tamil moviedom skirted Artificialism and 'Pure' Tamil in 1970's Thanks for Balachander and Bharathiraja we saw some realism in Tamil Movies.
so whatz all this debate about 'Pure' Tamil.
Mind. I don't support/enjoy a ruppee/like current Tamil movies. But criticizing VM for corrupting Tamil is weird when in reality the same English words are frequently used by all
Tamilians.
There lot of English-Tamil songs which make some sense to audience.
Eg:
1. Hello Miss Hello miss... (MGR)
2. Usage of LEFT RIGHT LEFT RIGHT ABOUT TURN in old song.(I don't remember the song)
3. Senorita I love My Sweetheart You love (Jhonny)
4. One..two..three..four..five..listen to the music (punnagai mannan)
Well there must be more...
I too hate using Englsh words just for the sake of using it songs. Thatz so idiotic. You know what Kodambakkam will say " Thatz the trend".
Hell with the trend!
Anyway I think you expecting 'pure' Tamil lyrics is unrealistic and bit weird.
Tamilan,
NaNbaN
Responses:
- From: NaNbaN (@ hzarour.ap.bdi.gte.com)
on: Fri Apr 14 19:59:30 EDT 2000
Any opinions?
- From: haris (@ inet-fw3-o.oracle.com)
on: Fri Apr 14 20:13:50 EDT 2000
ivalavu perisA ezhudhiputtu moonu nimishathula any opinions -nu lodukku kEttA enna artham.. konjam time kodunga.. ( mmm.. avagAsam...) ;-))
- From: ECHO (@ hobbiton.org)
on: Fri Apr 14 20:29:13 EDT 2000
:))
- From: paamaran (@ tog-wakko1b.prognet.com)
on: Fri Apr 14 20:34:39 EDT 2000
ettu periodla oru period thaan thamizh - antha period layum thamizh vathiyaar english kalanthu edutha ?? :)
appuram TN Govt. kondu vara vulla allathu neethimanRathil ulla arasaanai "Tamil vazhi kalvi!!" athu pOl "Tamil vazhi padam..." nu oru
arasaanai than pOdanum :)
- From: Valli (@ constellation.singnet.com.sg)
on: Fri Apr 14 22:51:38 EDT 2000
paamaran ezhthuvathai enakku puriyavillai ... its always so difficult to make out transliterated Tamil :(
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221)
on: Sat Apr 15 00:03:42 EDT 2000
Nanban,
definitely this is an unhealthy trend. if the situation demands sucha song like in nadodi thendral it is OK. but otherwise these english words spoil an other wise great song. I have not found any song where I feel comfortable with english words intruding in between. they create an awkward feeling in me. like 'olive oil' in an snegethane definitely spoils the feeling of listening to a good song.
Also, if this trend continues then for situations like where the hero is a NRI we might have totally english/pop songs or if the hero is in mumbai(like our arvind swamy in bombay) we might be having a predominantly Hindi song with just tamil words sprinkled here and there. Would u accept that?
the opposition is not only for english words, mind u. Iam talking about intrusion of any other language. I did'nt like the starting words of 'dillubaru jaane' for example. they could have definitely come up with some other examples.
your argument that when characters in films speak spoken tamil mixed with english words then why not the songs, is not acceptable. It is a far stretch. Remember that first of all songs themselves do not reflect or portray realism. they are purely imaginary and just for entertainment purposes. So if u expect them to be realistic then I bet u would'nt be able to listen to them.
Also when we unfortunately cannot speak pure tamil and mix english words when we speak(have u seen people from europe or any country mix their language with english?) why should we expect to carry this trend to songs also.
Our lyricists are capable of writing lyrics in pure tamil and they have done so in the past. so why this sudden change in the last few years? is it because of sat TV or MTV culture that is prevalent in India? maybe.
- From: eden (@ 202.54.71.143)
on: Sat Apr 15 01:05:12 EDT 2000
Food is good for eating, but not placing inside your shirt pocket:-) Each has it's place of usage and aesthetics...I'm referring to the non-Thamizh words...one can use it in everyday life for convenience but not in the literary works...all IMHO:-)
- From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9)
on: Sat Apr 15 01:18:03 EDT 2000
Digression:
eden, did you get my mail ?
Thx
MS
- From: NaNbaN (@ 1cust201.tnt1.irving2.tx.da.uu.net)
on: Sat Apr 15 02:45:52 EDT 2000
Haris:
No rush Man. Did I give you any deadline..take ur own time.
Vijay:
I strongly believe films should reflect commman mans life and culture and conflicts. So if people are changing.....filmdom has to change.( This thread inspired a question in me..if interested look into the following thread)
http://forumhub.com/tlit/8220.02.12.39.html
Eden:
>> I'm referring to the non-Thamizh words...one can use it in everyday life for convenience but not in the literary works...all IMHO:-)<<
Literary=film ????? Where are you from? Do you Time-travel? This is Chennai 21st century. Just kidding...
NaNbaN
- From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102)
on: Sat Apr 15 02:51:03 EDT 2000
well said, eden
nanban, going by what u say, world literature, poetry and theatre should all be in the spoken language of the common man. but that's not the case, is it? sure u have pop literature, music, etc where the colloquial usage is the norm, but to expect all of art to be oriented the same way is unreasonable.
in movies, characters rarely speak the way normal people do in real life, their lines are just right, that's because movies cut out the flaff and come to the core straightaway. and for that matter, no one ever sings duets or dances around trees in real life, so to expect film songs to remain true to the spoken word is not justified (to me at least).
- From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102)
on: Sat Apr 15 02:57:44 EDT 2000
another point.
u say that since people can't speak a line of tamil without introducing an english word, why should the lyricists be expected to be any different? i say, that's precisely the reason why we ought to preserve the purity of the language.
after all, its in the arts that the classical language is still alive, and if even ilakkiyams are going to be full of `azhagana peNN oru inspiration', then what will happen to our culture? as it is, no one seems to be interested in the language these days, and if this trend continues and poets take a leaf out of your argument, a few decades down the line we will be left with nothing, just a hotch-potch of english and `that dead language, tamil'.
- From: NaNbaN (@ 1cust177.tnt1.irving2.tx.da.uu.net)
on: Sat Apr 15 04:35:10 EDT 2000
Cram:
Are you expecting Films and song lyrics to preserve our culture and Language?. Film and songs are products of an industry and it produces what it hinks will sell in the market.
>>nanban, going by what u say, world literature, poetry and theatre should all be in the spoken language of the common man.<<
Nope I never said that you assumed. I am talking only about Film.
What is your definition of 'Pure' Tamil?. You mean Tamil without sanskrit mix :-)
I find no offence in using English words in Tamil song lyrics as long it goes with the siuation and doesn't sound awkward.
One Example is Mukkala Muqabula.......and it is good song.
NaNbaN
- From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102)
on: Sat Apr 15 08:21:44 EDT 2000
``Cram:
Are you expecting Films and song lyrics to preserve our culture and Language?. Film and songs are products of an industry and it produces what it hinks will sell in the market.''
why not? what's wrong with cinema? film is part and parcel of our culture since we have assimilated it into our ethos in india, especially in tamilnadu, where it is so popular. it does reflect present-day culture to a great extent (but it's another matter that good cinema is in scarcity, a paradoxical situation).
why do u look at cinema as just an industry? why this hesitation to accept it as an art form?
``Nope I never said that you assumed. I am talking only about Film.''
sure, i mentioned the other arts because to me film is on par with them, but i don't think u would quite agree with me.
``What is your definition of 'Pure' Tamil?. You mean Tamil without sanskrit mix :-)''
in the current context, tamil without any english contamination is all that i ask for. it would be very difficult to root out the sanskrit influence.
- From: csg (@ 202.144.10.93)
on: Sat Apr 15 08:41:27 EDT 2000
pure tamil lyrics can be given under a situation where the movie is taken in a pre historic backdrop, for eg:in the movie alaipayuthe you cannot except pure tamil lyrics because it is set in city backdrop, so according to me if you want pure tamil lyrics do except it in a village or pre historic movie.
- From: chandy (@ ws025038.coba.siu.edu)
on: Sat Apr 15 14:46:06 EDT 2000
vijay, i agree with your points. but can u tell me whats the equivalent of "olive" in tamil? words like olive, strawberry, nayagara, apple cannot be "tamilised".. to that extent the usage of english words is fine... But it is not a healthy trend to completely anglicize a song..
And use of english words is certainly better than using non-sense words like "jumbalakka", "kachum", "mukkaala"...
- From: chandy (@ ws025038.coba.siu.edu)
on: Sat Apr 15 14:48:42 EDT 2000
Eden, well-said. What can the TFM lyrics these days be called as "literary works???? :-))
List all pages of this thread
Post comments
Forums: Current Topics - Ilayaraja Albums - A.R. Rahman Albums - TFM Oldies - Fun & Games
Ilaiyaraja: Releases - News - Share Music - AR Rahman: Releases - News - AOTW - Tweets -
Discussions: MSV - YSR - GVP - Song Requests - Song stats - Raga of songs - Copying - Tweets
Database: Main - Singers - Music Director's - Lyricists Fun: PP - EKB - Relay - Satires - Quiz