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Is IR's quality now indeed less than his yesteryears?

Topic started by SR Kaushik (@ ntws229.cs.wisc.edu) on Tue Oct 13 22:30:43 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Many people opine that the IR of the 80s was best and that his standard now is a little lesser. I do not agree. While I do feel that his quality in the early 90s was a bit down, after the advent of ARR, he is back to his old form, although his style has changed. IMO, (all songs of) Guru, (some songs of) Kaliyoonjalu, Yatra mozhi, Avatharam, Nammoora Mandaara Hoove are as good as his best.

I can cite a few reasons why so many people feel IR now is not as good as IR of the 80s:

1. Nostalgia.
2. An explanation for his relative lack of commercial success now.
3. We have all listened to so much music that we are used to it, and hence the charm that music once used to have is reduced. Or rather, let me put it this way - one's musical appreciation becomes more intellectual than emotional.

I think this would be an interesting topic to discuss.

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Responses:

• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Wed Oct 14 00:24:02 EDT 1998
  
  kaushik,
  iam a raja fan and i feel that the 'emotional content' of his music has indeed come down atleast in TFM. i can analyse u'r reasons.
  
  1. nostalgia : initially i thought that i was suffering from this and that's why jhony and nizhalgal seemed too good to me as compared to say, kadhalukku mariyadhai. but i do not feel nostalgic when i listen to most of shankar ganesh songs( school days) or ARR songs ( college days). why? because the emotional content in IR's songs is the one that helps u associate and get lost in those days of the past.
  i do not feel nostalgic listening to chikku bukku railu or pettai rap. but i do feel nostalgic listenin to kodai kaala kaatre or pottu vaitha vatta nila etc. why? it is because of the ability of those songs to touch u'r heart.
  
  if u see a thread called 'songs that touch us' most of it would be IR's. that emotional content is missing in most of his songs today.
  so nostalgia is not the exact reason.
  
  2. explanation for decline of market:
  
  never. there was a topic on this also once again by sathyavaageeswaran. no fan of IR in this forum according to what i have seen has tried to link quality of IR 's songs with his decline of market. on the other hand most of them feel that his songs are still good.
  i for one surely feel that technically raja might still be there but the emotional content or the melody content has come down.
  i can give a few reasons later as to why this has happened.
  
  3. i will not agree. i was literally off my feet after hearing to 'aruna girana' from guru and was in a trance after listening to 'ponveyilil'. now i understand that both of these are malayalam and not tamil songs. but iam still affected emotionally when i hear these songs. im still affected emotionally when i hear jhony or nizhalgal or chori chori or madhumati. these songs will have a lasting impact. they create an indelible impact on u'r mind.
  
  but most of the present day songs lack the 'jeevan'. the reason might be due to what many people say here in this forum that IR is composing with his brain and not with his heart.
  
  from a psychological viewpoint IR might have lost a major portion of his 'enthu' in the eighties itself when he was having a 'veri' to prove some things in life, so much so that he made the careers of mohan, ramaraajan, rajkiran etc.
  
  nowadays he gets inspired occasioanlly only if the film has some really great storyline.
  
  u can ask yourself why TFM does not sound like guru or yaathramozhi. that's what i have explained in the above lines.
  
  IR needs to find a challenge for himself. in terms of composing he might still be the best and far ahead of ARR and co. but this is simply not the IR of the 80s.
  
  strangely, i feel the same way about pop music in U.S. too. does anyone agree with me?
  anyway sorry for the long posting.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: arasu (@ 205-191-97.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Oct 14 03:44:31 EDT 1998
  
  I agree. Illayaraja is NOT motivated these days, unless the project has a different theme. Clear exmaples are his malayalam movies. Films like Kalaapani, Yathramozhi and Guru were different and had something new theme.. On the other hand, recent tamil movies roll out the same stuff repeatedly.. 30 guys and 30 females shake every inch of their body to tunes created "just for the heck of it'...
  
  I think to get IRs music (like the 80's) consistently good right now is a dream ... That's the truth... ( I am a IR fan.. but facts are facts)..
  
  These days you need to have a marketing acumen... ARR has handled the situation pretty well.. Make 5 movies a year and ... rest is taken care.
  
  
• From: arasu (@ 205-191-97.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Oct 14 03:47:14 EDT 1998
  
  Sorry guys.. I fat fingered a lot in my posting... Hope the posting makes sense...
  Thanks
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Wed Oct 14 07:42:21 EDT 1998
  
  Guys. I suggest that you look at the archives. This is one topic that has generated lot of heated discussions in the past. Threads like analysis of IR's decline, IR before and after 1987 etc. come to mind imm.
  
  
• From: Ravy (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Wed Oct 14 08:11:18 EDT 1998
  
  Vijay:
  
  To be fair to ARR, he has been around for 6 years only and I think that too short a time to evoke nostalgia. Moreover your choice of ARR songs is also not fair. Chikku bukku rayilae Vs pottu vaitha vatta nila ?? Who is to be blamed if someone looking for 'emotional content' in Chikku bukku rayilae or pettai rap?
  
  
• From: UV (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Oct 14 08:52:01 EDT 1998
  
  Ravy,
  Does kAdhal rojave evoke nostalgia on U????
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-97.il.us.ibm.net) on: Wed Oct 14 08:52:30 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  Kaushik:
  It is unfortunate to see that there are no tamil movies hits in your list. We are compromising ourself with Kannada, Malayalam and very very few tamil songs. Why are we doing this, during 1980's we never knew IR was doing songs in other language as he was doing very well Tamil.
  
  I bought the Guru-CD just for Harakirana - a great score with Hungerian-Budapest Philharmonic playing for Raja. Other songs are pretty same Rajaish , nothing new. I told this long time ago, instead of Raja sitting and wasting his time with small Indian movies he can do something else.
  I called India to check on Desiya Geetham - belive it or not no one knew about it. I went around devon looking for new Raja numbers only 80's were available. One genius there adviced me to buy Deva's work as all his songs are good.
  
  When it is like this I insists we will not talk about Raja again, this invites many freelance attack on him.
  
  Also tell any other song than the 4 you put - these have been around here for a year or more now.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Oct 14 09:31:02 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth,
  R U sure. do the rest of the songs of Guru don't sound new??
  IMO, Thatharam mozhiyamma was out-of-the-world and so is Devasangeetham neeyallE.
  I'd compare GOOD songs of Raja with Gurucharanam and minnaram mAdathu.the rest of them are one of his all time greats.
  
  I'd rate GURU as the Best ever album by raja.
  I know guys will assail me with Johnnys ,NinaivellAm nithyas and panneer pushpangals but none the above mentioned albums had the variety Guru had.
  It had all types of music from WC to carnatic, Romantic to tragedic and devotion to vandalism.
  
  For the people who haven't watched the movie...
  taththaram mozhiyamma comes in the situation where the blind men try to give mohanlAl as an offering to Sound goddess (narabali-in tamil).
  The song has so many different instruments including french horn ,oboe etc ,since the objective of the song is to satisfy the sound goddess.
  This is just a sample I'm giving .I can talk volumes on the greatness of GURU songs.
  This is the only album which has satisfied me both
  by its melody and grand Orchestration.
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Oct 14 09:48:13 EDT 1998
  
  Sorry for the digression guys (for my previous posting),
  Now,back to the topic.
  kaushik has said about people's appreciation being more intellectual than emotional.
  
  true to some extent,but there are certain recent songs of IR which have affected me emotionally.
  
  I'd like to give only one song ,"arumbum thalire " from chandralekha.
  The movie was absolute junk and the hit song of the movie was "Allah un ANai padi".But somehow, this song had a great impact on me.
  i can't give any reasons for that like I give for "sinna puRa onru" which makes me weep and "putham pudhu kAlai" which makes me cheerful or "agAya gangai" which suits my mood at any time!! but whenever I don't get sleep, I play this song in a mild volume and the next thing I know is that I'm awake next morning with the headphone, and the Wman on.
  One thing if u all notice, the songs mentioned above are from those great directors like Mahendran, Balumahendra, Mani or BR and the movies they were taking those days were brilliant. Ask them to give Raja a subject that's really challenging ,the difference cud be clearly seen.
  
  I'm sure the guys who've posted above are gonna talk about Marudhanayakam for years to come ,for it's one of the most challenging subjects IR has ever handled.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy1.dpn.deere.com) on: Wed Oct 14 10:12:30 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Shanker,
  I agree with your second posting, many songs of Raja keep going around my brain even while sleeping. Coming back to guru, Raja's had done similar kind of scoring 10 years ago for certain string section part. I need to hear more with my keyboards near me. I will bring same songs. For Eg; Haranakirana starts like vediya Vediya nanadam".
  
  The above were my first impression, I just heard it once to get a layman's idea of the song, soon I will hear it as a musician and give you a feedback.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Wed Oct 14 11:30:02 EDT 1998
  
  
  to srikanth:
  others: sorry for the samll digression
  iam also surprised by u'r response for guru songs. u can look at my posting in TFM links section posted on sep 22 addressed to u. i think u missed my posting. iam still awaiting a detailed review from u on guru. u can't dismiss lightly the other songs og guru. i agree that aruna girana makes an immediate impact on first listening. but if u keep hearing thathaaram or deva sangeetham u'll get addicted. perhaps these songs might not have as brilliant as orchestration as aruna girana but they are definitely much different from tamil songs which i have heard so far and there is enough trademark 'raja melody' in these songs. i hope to hear about these songs from u soon.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Wed Oct 14 11:33:47 EDT 1998
  
  ravy,
  i took chikku bukku railu or pettai rap for examples because most songs of ARR belong to this genre. u have only a single ennavale or a single kannodu kaanbadhellam or a single narumugaye. the other songs in these films are highly mediocre. they might have catchy tunes but not the melody that makes u feel nostalgic every time u listen to it.
  
  of course the above mentioned songs are definitely good and might perhaps invoke nostalgia on the present day youngsters a few years from now!!
  
  

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