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Let's Reveal MSV, IR and ARR style of music..and strength

Topic started by paran (@ 203.123.16.77) on Tue Jul 15 03:36:08 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi All,

I think we had seen enough of MD-bashing forums..
now....with respect let's talk about the strength of these legends of TFM....

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Responses:

• From: Paran (@ 203.123.16.77) on: Tue Jul 15 04:03:20 EDT 2003
  
  And please...
  only decent posting..and true music lovers only...
  
  
  
• From: Lord LabakkuDas (@ 202.54.153.21) on: Tue Jul 15 04:40:10 EDT 2003
  
  AFAIK, MSV and IR are pure vegetarian's..so out of the three ARR shud be having more strength..IMHO.
  
  
• From: Paran (@ 203.123.16.77) on: Tue Jul 15 05:43:47 EDT 2003
  
  ade pavi LLD...
  kusumbe jasti ya unakke...
  naan musical strengthtai ketten....
  
  
• From: Speaker (@ 203.126.142.232) on: Tue Jul 15 06:03:43 EDT 2003
  
  pl. include tkr msv without tkr has no strength.
  imho, arr has not reached legendary status. he is trend setter. bradman is a legend, gilchrist is a trend setter.
  lld, had a hearty laugh. you are true stress reliever.
  
  
• From: Paran (@ 203.123.16.77) on: Tue Jul 15 06:21:29 EDT 2003
  
  Well....Speaker..
  i agree on ut abt TKR-MSV..
  hey..but didn't ARR had a decade for himself?..
  
  ok..may be it is too early to call him a legend..
  
  why not...we say..
  
  "MOST SUCCESSFUL TFM MD'S....MSV-TKR, IR, and ARR"...
  
  i think that is appopriate...rite?
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.200.17.158) on: Tue Jul 15 06:43:26 EDT 2003
  
  Speaker, gilchrist?? Err....he had the same scoring rate as Bradman!
  So ur analogy doesnt fit ;)
  
  
• From: Music4ever (@ 130.111.58.78) on: Fri Jul 18 10:38:09 EDT 2003
  
  MSV without TKR has no strength? I am totally nonplussed. What about all those lovely MGR numbers in the mid to late sixties and late seventies (some of them were by KVM too, I agree)? What about those lovely numbers in various KB movies up to the mid eighties? MSV is a legend, with or without TKR. I agree though that MSV-TKR combination was a superb alliance in TFM and probably better than MSV by himself (the two is better than one thing).
  
  As for Gilly, he is slowly upstaging even Sachin.
  
  
• From: IRRRRRRRRRR (@ 141.202.248.12) on: Fri Jul 18 13:15:26 EDT 2003
  
  LLD, that must be the funniest post I have read here, even if was at the expense of Paran. Thanks.
  
  
• From: isai_nanban (@ 68.77.11.141) on: Fri Jul 18 16:09:26 EDT 2003
  
  MSV without TKR did greater work. Look at this Malayalam songs, listen to Naalai Namadhey or any album of MSV in the 70s. unbeatable tunes and very melodious. MSV' tunes are an entirely different ball game in Indian film music. In terms of the solid tunes, only RDB was close. MSV songs were thoroughly earthy and Indian, that stood out with mridangam, thavil and bare orchestration.
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.233.50) on: Sun Jul 20 05:46:32 EDT 2003
  
  MSV with TKR would have survived the IR-shock too... u guys dunt forget that TKR also gacve some hit albums like "Naan, Madras to Pondi, Kagidha odam", so that guy is some talent.....
  
  MSV_TKR was a rich combo.... MSV was a good MD... IR is the musical man... ARR is the "Sachin Tendulkar of TFM and HFM"
  
  
• From: x (@ 209.47.143.226) on: Sun Jul 20 08:43:41 EDT 2003
  
  MSV is just a good MD??! If ARR is like sachin, I would say MSV was like Sunil Gavaskar. And IR is like all in one Sunil+schin+kapil+bradman+vivian+krish_srikant so on and so on...
  
  MSV+TKR combo was always the best. MSV without TKR gave a lot of great melodies and hits. TKR without MSV was a failure. Not that TKR didn't have stuff but TKR couldn't do without MSV
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.218.163) on: Sun Jul 20 09:37:50 EDT 2003
  
  TKR was just badly promoted that's it.... after the partition, it was TKR who gave a silver jubilee movie(naan) first and also combining with Karunanidhi he produced the best sad song of TFM(Kagidha odam).....
  also be logical in praising IR-
  "sunil+schin+kapil+bradman+vivian+krish_srikant" is a illogical statement and impractical...... he is also like ARR and MSV... come to reality.....
  
  
• From: isai_nanban (@ 68.77.4.161) on: Sun Jul 20 13:53:55 EDT 2003
  
  sorry, this should've been posted here"
  
  
  there are 3 leagues of gentleman composers - each distinct and has kings in their leagues that are legends.
  
  League 1: MSV League containing, Devarajan, Arjunan, RD Burman, Vijay Bhaskar, Madan Mohan, etc..
  
  League 2: IR League, with a timbre melody not as strong as MSV league but with unparalleled versatility and creativity: This league consists of Sankar Jaikishan, Salil Chowdhry, RJain, SD Burman, Rajen Nagendra, G K Venkatesh etc..
  
  League 3: ARR League, with Karthik Raja, YSR, Harris Jayraj etc.. more youthful tunes, nowhere near MSV in melody and nowhere near IR in creativity.
  
  I would say League 1 is more singer based music and more enduring. League 2 is more orchestration, very melodious, very sweet, but not as strong a melody as MSV league. League 3 is only for the times, fleeting but very enjoyable and it survives because League 1 and 2 are rare extraordinary species pretty much extinct.
  
  Don't compare MSV with SDB or anyone other than IR. MSV' solid tunes have no parallel in entire music history. Likewise IR' creativity, originality and moods have no composere than can come close within a 1000 years this way that way. And, again MSV and IR are league of their own, most two admirable branches in the trea of music.
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.110) on: Sun Jul 20 14:54:07 EDT 2003
  
  Whatever let it be. Every one MSV,KVM,ARR,HJ YSR,VS,DEVA etc..made their albums hit.
  
  But IR differs from all the other MD's including Hindi MD's. He is the first and last(mostly) MD proved the importance of the music for the films. He made the producers and directors to realise the the MD as the important for the movie.
  
  You see now a days the producers and directors waiting for the actors like ajith ,vijay,vikram. They are least bothered of MD.
  
  Just Go back to 80's. No body cared of the actors. In fact producers,directors(even MR,BR),actors(even our super star) were depends on IR. I can give example many mohan,ramarajan,rajkiran,P.vasu list continues.
  
  After IR it was to ARR.In the film industry IR made many enemies like MR,BR,KKB,Rajini,Kathir,AVM etc. ARR started his carrier with all the IR enemies.Sankar is the exception. He could also travel to hindi and london. He made severalm hit albums.No doubt. But he has not proved the power of the MD in a junk movie,I mean a movie with junk artist and junk
  actor.
  I agree with that IR could not do now.
  But whatever the magic he did that no one can do in future including him.
  
  So wrt the topic "about the strength of these legends of TFM" IR tops.
  
  
• From: AV (@ 132.206.72.62) on: Sun Jul 20 17:46:05 EDT 2003
  
  IR League, with a timbre melody not as strong as MSV league but with unparalleled versatility and creativity: This league consists of Sankar Jaikishan, Salil Chowdhry, RJain, SD Burman, Rajen Nagendra, G K Venkatesh etc..
  ===============================================
  
  I am surprised to see Ravindra Jain in this list! Some of his tunes had an excellent folk and classical base, but they quickly became so repetitive, hackneyed. His music in TV serials is rather unbearable. There is no way we can put him up there with IR or Salilda. And I really don't know - what is so multi-faceted about Ravindra Jain's music? I don't see any shining versatility in his music. Salilda and IR OTOH covered so many
  different genres from Indian classical to western
  to folk music from various states.
  
  I do understand that he achieved so much though he was visually impaired. But in terms of his output,he cannot be put up so high in that list of MDs.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.11.98.63) on: Sun Jul 20 17:58:51 EDT 2003
  
  isai_nanban,
  I don't know if I will agree that IR is not as strong in melody as MSV (though I can understand why you have said it and have felt it myself for a long time). It's just that MSV was master of light music and preferred to score more lighter melodies than IR. If you look at any other composer in that era like KVM or S.Rajeshwara Rao (who is closest to IR in versatility), all have given light melodies and that was the genre of music then. IR also has equal if not more number of super melodious songs (esp 1976-80). It's also the case that in IR's time the lyrics took a downtrod (somewhere Paran wanted pounce on this fact) and made even great songs sound mediocre.
  
  AV
  Can you name some great hits of Salil chowdhary. I have heard some songs but want to explore a little more into his music. Preferably some experimental albums that you know of. Thanks.
  
  Jag
  
  
• From: isai_nanban (@ 68.77.4.161) on: Sun Jul 20 20:47:38 EDT 2003
  
  Jag, I am only generalizing about the leagues - however, MSV and IR has set high levels in their respective approaches. I am not saying IR is not strong in melody. Let me give an analogy: Take the most fascinating roller coaster ride, state of the art one: IR' tunes are like riding on that one - it takes us on a awesome ride at that underlying natural speed with twists and turns. (For eg: Kannan Oru Kai Kuzhandai or Engum Niraindha - now try comparing with MSV's Kadhal Enbadhu Kaviyam; Neela Nayanangalil; Ennai Vittal Yaarum Illai. Each group is in their own league - no comparison at all, just each song a classic on its own, but study the timbre of melody, examine the ease with each song flows - you will find that IR likes to have a faster resolution in the songs (meaning a quicker resolve, quicker satisfaction and provide scope for more twists, turns, orchestral motions, bass etc..) and MSV takes his time in each tune and you feel you are doing the fastest thing in a more controlled way.
  
  MSV is in total control of the speed and can pace it so beautifully that you relish the song as it rolls on at that drawn out pace, though one will not see surprising twists and turns as in IR or SC or RJ, you can feel you are totally consumed by the pace and your energies sublimated in a way. IR will shake you to the core and you cannot rest in the ride, instead you are riding with a rush of feelings, your suddenly find such high energies generating within to keep pace with the exciting speed on that roller coaster.
  
  I don't like to say MSV' tunes are to put in light music category or easy listening, because the depth of the tunes are unfathomable. There is nothing light about Tamil film songs until Rahman came along!!
  
  Salil' best versions are found in a bonanza mal CD - Nellu, Chemmeen, Raagam & something else.
  
  Ravindra Jain was not prolific but his ideas are not really understood yet, they are all the way evolved, mature, dramatic and really a roller coaster ride too.
  
  I would've grouped SJ & RJ in the MSV group, but they fall more in the school of thought that IR borught to great heights.
  
  This is just my observation after a lot of analysis comparing various genres of music.
  
  
• From: AV (@ 132.216.68.109) on: Sun Jul 20 21:45:02 EDT 2003
  
  AV
  Can you name some great hits of Salil chowdhary. I have heard some songs but want to explore a little more into his music. Preferably some experimental albums that you know of. Thanks.
  ==================================================
  
  Jag:
  
  Well, check out http://www.salilda.com
  
  This site has all of his work and it previously had songs as well. For me, nearly every film of Salilda is a listening experience. My favourites are Chardeewari, Parakh, Prem Patra, Annadaata, Agneepareeksha, Chand Aur Sooraj, Maya, Chhaya and Usne Kaha Tha. In addition to this is the Malayalam film Raagam and all his Bengali adhunik songs. I particularly love the way Salilda "recycled" his songs and used the same tune for both a happy and a sad mood. And both were done effectively - that is what is really amazing. I also listen to every bit of the intricate preludes and interludes in all his songs. His background music was superb - check out the movie Prem Patra. I mean, watch the whole movie including the title music. His use of violins was superb (unlike that of many Hindi MDs like L-P). I also love Salilda's use of the Dholak and the Sitar. Check out the song "Chham Chham Naachat Aayi Bahaar" in Chhaya. The song has an enthralling prelude that is quite long, beginning with a nice piece of the dholak, after which there is a vibrant set of taans on the sitar.
  
  A few months ago, I had seen an article by Padma Subramanyam (Bharatanatyam exponent) in praise of Salilda. I had posted some info on Salilda here:
  http://newtfmpage.com/forum/12516.414.22.08.06.html
  (click on old responses once or twice).
  
  Lastly, I am one of those who believe IR is IR. There were many great MDs, some very close to IR. But IR has a huge quantity of films with very high quality music including BGM. I feel Salilda is one MD who was close to IR but he lost in terms of quantity and again, IRs versatility is quite mind-boggling. He is to music what Satyajit Ray was to film-making, and in fact more, the more being that IR also had the ability to reach out to the masses.
  
  

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