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dhooL.com

Topic started by bb (@ 24.4.254.104) on Tue Feb 20 03:21:22 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi! We've made a major addition to newtfmpage, and that is a big song bank. Dhool features thousands of songs for your listening pleasure. This site is a part of the newtfmpage.com - swara.com group. Together with newtfmpage, we wish to make this the best place to listen to tamil film songs online and know about tamil film music. Our collection includes old, new, famous, rare and unheard of songs. We are still fine tuning and fixing the database errors, so please bear with us. We value your feedback, and this will help us build the site better. Please post your comments below or mail to comments@newtfmpage.com.
This work was done by us (bb and RR) with MS and swara.com ravi.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 8 11:10:29 EDT 2003
  
  There you go guys, You asked for it!!!!!
  My apologies to recent writers for making your message old unfairly.
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 8 11:20:53 EDT 2003
  
  To put in other words, it is easy to have a calm state of mind when you are praying to God. But in a voyeristic situation, softening the sexual feeling using Sarang raga is a totally different thing!! Compare to the raciness of Ponmeni urugudhae created by Michael jacksonlike phrasing and a apache drums and disco beat and slides in deep bass guitar. Once Bhagyaraj commented that people accuse him of showing sex in his movies but he wanted to point out that his sex is always used in a comical way and releases sexual tension compared to Balu mahendra's storylines where sexual tension is long unresolved.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Fri Aug 8 11:22:21 EDT 2003
  
  rjay, the first instrument that we hear in the prelude of "Ilamayeunum poongatru", is that also santoor? If so, IR has used it quite a bit
  
  "Technically, this is a fill or a response"
  
  rjay, I agree thats why most of his tunes I term them as "listeners melodies" :-)and not singers melodies, meaning you cannot sing them solo without accompaniments like how you could with MSV's melodies.It would sound odd.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 8 11:26:04 EDT 2003
  
  Vijay. Yes that's santoor and Raja has used it very very lots.
  
  I like your distinction of listener's melodies versus singer melody. I want to add a bit. Raja's arrangements are performers arrangements, Rahmans are difficult to reproduce in stage, so they I want to terms them listener's arrangements!
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 8 11:27:06 EDT 2003
  
  Or SHould I term them 'Stage arrangement versus Studio Arrangment'
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Fri Aug 8 11:30:56 EDT 2003
  
  Rjay, the "difficult to reproduce" part - is it mostly because of the new sounds that have been generated while recording which are difficult to reproduce on stage because you dont have time to do sound engineering/modulation etc.? or is it because of something else related to composition?
  
  As for the idea of keeping lyrics catchy in the pallavi and softening it in the charanams, I guess Raja does the same with his tunes amny times. If you listen to "konji konji alaigal oda" from veera the Pallavi is deceptively easy and catchier but when you try to sing the charanams its a little more complicated with drawn out notes/brighas/gamakams etc.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 8 11:32:07 EDT 2003
  
  I appreciate Bhagyaraj's comment better now: it is like Catharsis, where you elicit the emotion and release it either comically or tragically. If people had ways and venues to laugh away sexual tensions, sexual crimes will reduce a lot. Compared to movies where sexual tension is slowly gradually built up and never resolved enough. These emotions are then dangerous and distracting to the viewer.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Fri Aug 8 11:32:31 EDT 2003
  
  Very good writeup Rjay! I just typed my thoughts as I read your post. Please keep it coming :-)
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 8 11:43:06 EDT 2003
  
  Vijay.
  
  1. Difficult to reproduce - (a) new sounds, unusual samples of real instruments and also synth instruments sounds created by laborious tweaking of FM and analog synth knobs (b) Elaborate creation of digital effects - reverb, delay and phaser and compression and so on.
  But in addition, there is another compositional factor - that is emerging, dynamically changing styles within the song. I will reserve the essay on Musical style for later, for now, remember that Subbiah naidu composed for a four or five member band, MSV used a 15-20 piece band for most of his songs, Raja trained, disciplined and used a seventy piece orchestra most of the time. Today's desktop studio allows me to use unlimited number of instruments in one song allowing me the capability to dynamically change of styles within matter of phrases or even note to note. For instance, I am learning a new powerful single software which is a whole studio in itself, (Properllerhead Reason). Awesome.
  
  However, let us not delude ourself that complex arrangement and production are the key to a hit. They are very important in todays competitive world were demos have to be production quality!!
  However, the singability of a song is still the single most hit factor. What makes a song a hit. Wait for my new book ;)
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 8 11:43:47 EDT 2003
  
  2. Regarding pallavi and charanam.
  
  Pallavi is a statement - has to be brief, catchy and to the point. Charanam is an elaboration, expansion. Both musically and lyrically.
  
  Interestingly, Pallavi and Charanam have counterparts in western pop - Verse and chorus. Can you guess which is what?
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 8 11:50:22 EDT 2003
  
  By emerging styles within a song, I mean the post 90's composing style, originated by Enigma Cretu, where you use whole new atmospheres as the song goes. For instance Athadi uses pretty much only two traditions, the tamil folk and the classical hindustani, juxtaposing them is an achievement. COnsider Poongathavae, you can see ambient, Nagaswaram style, Carnatic classical veena-venu, chamber orchestra, vivali like sections, mozart piano sonata styles, fugues, tamil folk. An amazing amalgam!
  
  The newer trend is to go even more fine grain and drastic. For instance, what Rahman tries in the ending sections of Boom. Suddenly the accompanying atmosphere morphs into unheard sound domains.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 8 11:52:48 EDT 2003
  
  This constantly changing backdrop is not THAT new, actually WCM has a lots of examples and Brian Wilson in 1966 tried it in Good vibrations under LSD influence. He called it a teen pocket symphony.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 8 11:56:41 EDT 2003
  
  Let me clarify. Western pop is not this experimental. Raja and Rahman and MSV show tons of musical sophistication compared to Western mainstream.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Fri Aug 8 12:04:56 EDT 2003
  
  rjay pl continue it here
  http://www.newtfmpage.com/forum/27664.12.45.43.html
  
  I'll feel free to write more there :-)
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Fri Aug 8 12:12:48 EDT 2003
  
  Sure. Just another disclaimer.
  
  SOme of the visitors to this page may be put off or annoyed, or overwhelmed by the long analysis, detailed breakdown, which is essentially a labeling of events in the song.
  
  Any analysis is not useful until it provides a clue to synthesis. Breaking down should reveal patterns that help us evaluate the music - what choices did the composer make to face the challenge that was posed to him and how did he acheive the emotional response the song invokes.
  So my motivation is to learn the tricks of the masters. If you do not share an enthu in similar activities, I can assure you that this will move to archive in a day ;)
  
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.9.26.160) on: Fri Aug 8 12:38:50 EDT 2003
  
  rjay,
  That was a great writeup on a folk number. I had read detailed analysis of Carnatic songs by Raaja but your writeup has touched the parts to which I give the utmost importance. Like the evocativeness of the instruments and the emotions spawned by them, are some aspects which are difficult to analyse. I hope that you continue writing up more such invigorating analysis which enhance our listening pleasure.
  
  
• From: Outsider (@ 219.65.140.12) on: Fri Aug 8 12:56:09 EDT 2003
  
  rjay, can i say 'idhu dhanda ezhththu'. Idhu just cast, artist detail-ai sollara saadharaNa write-up illa. pakka musical analysis. romba interesting even though it is lengthy. veLuthu kattiteenga... Hats-off
  
  Pls continue to offer this type of 'musical analysis'.
  
  
• From: Outsider (@ 219.65.140.12) on: Fri Aug 8 13:15:22 EDT 2003
  
  bb, in my view, the 2 songs are like hindi songs, not giving a flavor or odour of tamizh song. may be it was by LM in her poor Tamil.
  
  ennavo solvaanga... 'kaLavaum katru mara' - pazha mozhi??? Adhu pOla, 'indha type paatai-yum kettu thola' - appidinnu oru pudhu mozhi :-O
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Fri Aug 8 13:18:01 EDT 2003
  
  I'm having a logic logjam.
  
  I am aware that the SOTD mandate is to excavate rare, lost, and overlooked compositions from tamizh cinema. A recent ammendment to this original pledge is the inclusion of "different sounding" and "current flavours" in the criteria (never mind the euphemism and the problems that poses.) So, the slotting is easy, and everybody (more or less - except narayan) is happy, every so often.
  
  But today's SOTD(s)(with an earnest history by saravanan)find me non-plussed. I don't know how to say this without giving cause for offense, but I'd be damned if that has ever stopped me. All I can say is that my intentions are honourable (and hopefully, you'll see it as such.)
  
  Let me cut to the logical chase:
  
  1. LMs songs in Uran Khatola are evergreen, and require no nudge or push to attain immortality.
  
  2. LMs songs from Uran Khatola are available online for those who may care to search them out - yes, give them a listen, they'll cast their spell over you.
  
  3. BS songs in the film Vanaradham are indeed rare. I have not heard them. I doubt there are audiofiles for these tracks. With reference to her quote (posted by Saravanan) where she explains her quick exit from Bombay. It's here that the logjam gets to be full-blown:
  
  a. When these very tunes are available (and memorable) in Hindi, why do we need the tamizh versions here today?
  
  b. Given BSs treatment in Bombay, wouldn't it have been more interesting to hear the song by her from Vanaratham (if that were possible.)
  
  c. If that weren't possible, then what purpose does today's selection serve but to perpetuate legendary monopoly - yet again - in the name of rarity, novelty and undecipherable tamizh?
  See, what I mean by falling between the cracks of logic?
  
  Unless, of course, the songs are here today precisely to prove subset C...But even that interpretational possibility is nixed when one contemplates the accompanying irony that is part of recording history of Uran Khatola / Vanaradham.
  
  Say, Huh?
  
  
  rjay -
  
  I was fascinated by your detailed analysis of the instrumental/compositional structure of the song from Poo Vilangu. How interesting to read about film music and how it comes about - as a whole - through the marriage of diverse sounds and rhythmic patterns.
  However, I also find the analysis to be incomplete as there is no focus on the singing component. Will you be writing on that as well - here or in the other thread? Please do let me know.
  
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.122) on: Fri Aug 8 13:46:23 EDT 2003
  
  Vijay, Jag, Outsider, Naaz,
  
  Thanks for the encouragement and good to know you like it. After all the retyping did not go waste!
  Thanks to SK, mythila and bb making the request.
  
  Naaz,
  There are still many many more aspects of the song that go unsaid. But you are right, singing is a very important aspect and I should have added the following section:
  
  Singing
  Style is rugged folk style (unadorned, open mouthed, unself-conscious) singing - even the alapanai in the charanam (pooncholaiyae) is more
  stage (koothu) style rather than classical style -as seen in the intro of Naan thedum sevanthi poo.
  
  One of the advantages of this style is that the voice is stripped of all the nuances and deliberations and any pretense, show the real character and attitude of the singer comes out and touches the listener. Having said that
  the singing has many payoff (enjoyable) points - for instance
  Kulikuthu Roja naathu ends in a very low note, and voice there sounds like a clarinet! And the last line of the charanam has a very stylish Jazz rendering.
  
  
  

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