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Is ARR Running out of Stuff?

Topic started by Ramesh Vaidhyanathan (@ gengw.gensym.com) on Fri Mar 13 15:14:51 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I listened to VandeMatharam in which ARR recycled his own tunes from Kizhakku Ceemayile and a touch of a song from Indira.
Also ARR's recent movies for big time producers like Ratchagan and Iruvar (except one song) and Dhoud in Hindi did not have any notable music. Remember ARRs last hit Minsarak Kanavu music was done long time ago.

If for a major album for Sony released on 50th year of Indian Independence, ARR cannot produce original music, then I have to come to the conclusion that he is running out of stuff. I heard that ARR is planning to cut down on movies and concentrate more on albums. Thus he will have to produce less and earn more.

Right now I do not see any difference in the quality of music produced by ARR and Karthik Raja. In fact I think Deva is doing a better job of providing consistant good quality music.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: dhan (@ dajal.legato.com) on: Tue Sep 15 16:50:09 EDT 1998
  
  Ramani,
  
  Kaadhal Desam, all songs are written by Vaali.
  
  Pudhiya Mannargal: all songs are written by Palani Bharathi
  
  Uzhavan: Those lilting tunes were honed by Vaali.
  (have you listened to that electric number by KJY and Swarnalatha "raak kozhi rendu thanithirukku..." which was rehashed for Rangeela)
  
  Okie...how abt Rangeela :) :)
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Sep 16 08:47:35 EDT 1998
  
  dhan,
  Do u really think the songs u mentioned above were HITS ??
  If so, then the list of songs that r supposed to come in "IRs dabba songs " r hits.
  
  I partially agree with ramani that VM's lyrics have played a vital role in ARR's success along with the Elite group of high profile directors he has worked with apart from his (ARRs) contribution to the song's success.
  
  
• From: nesanp (@ sdn-ar-002txfworp322.dialsprint.net) on: Wed Sep 16 13:58:54 EDT 1998
  
  One thing to consider here is that all these
  so called big directors were small when IR composed music for them. In other words, ARR is
  under the shadow of IR. If ARR compose music for
  new directors or worse directors and still hold the place, then he can be compared to IR. Until then no comaparison can be made. Even the so calle d great poet Vairamuthu also here because of IR.
  IR gained his popularity by composing music for poor directors but ARR is trying to gain that by Composing famour directors. That is the difference in success of IR and ARR.
  Nesan P
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ elroy.cs.wisc.edu) on: Wed Sep 16 14:10:39 EDT 1998
  
  Guys give credit to ARR - we must agree that "Roja", "Pudhiya Mugam", "Duet", "Thiruda Thiruda" deserved to be hits, whoever the director. I agree that nowadays, the director's name and the publicity are making ARR's compositions hits (films like "Jeans", "Indian", etc - IMO). But the fellow is (or atleast was) talented and that is the main reason for his success.
  
  
• From: Srinivas (@ scproxy3.sc.intel.com) on: Wed Sep 16 17:08:34 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  ARR is doubtless a very talented musician. He still is ; otherwise his songs would not have been appreciated on such a massive scale. ARR is talented not only because his albums sell well. There are a lot of excellent songs from ARR, which IMHO did not get very well-appreciated, like "Thoda Thoda" from Indira (excellent interludes!), two songs from Uzhavan, even a song from Love Birds which has a beautiful interlude than reminds you of mountains and fresh breeze ( I don't remeber the lyrics). But of late, he does not seem to be laying much stress on melody. Also, he is ptting an overdose of Muslim-prayer kind of sounds/chants. Personnaly, I am quite dissatisfied with the music of Dil Se, Indian and Jeans. Also , he has cut down a lot on ornamentations. In his earlier works, we used to notice a lot of string accompaniments, kbds etc which added a richness to his songs. This is also missing in his new numbers. I think that he is just trying to cater to the younger generation of listeners with songs like "Haire Haire", "Thaiyya thaiyya" etc, which can be at best heard 2/3 times and long forgotten.
  However the fact remains that his music continues to be succesful. There is no disputing that point.
  
  Srinivas
  
  
• From: Senny G (@ proxy1.cc.swin.edu.au) on: Thu Sep 17 04:22:10 EDT 1998
  
  ARR is human too!!!!
  anyhow athisayam song from jeans and poongatrile from uyire have the best lyrics in recent times and good tunes too
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-74-5.sprint.ca) on: Thu Sep 17 12:19:23 EDT 1998
  
  Come on. Everyone has had a low phase. Anyhow the reason I think that most people think arr new songs seem the same is because all the other music directors use his style. You got to admit that these days most songs sound the same. Anyways, when his albums come out you can expect it to be different from everyone else's. If you take all the MD's their songs all sound similar.
  
  
• From: DEVA_VERIYAN (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Fri Sep 18 00:10:51 EDT 1998
  
  aruvi,
  Listen to deva's songs.U' have a wide range of styles starting with IR, MSV, almost all composers of the west, nusrat F A Khan, junoon etc etc....
  
  How can u say his songs sound similar ;-)))
  
  
• From: Srinivas (@ scproxy1.sc.intel.com) on: Tue Sep 22 17:28:36 EDT 1998
  
  Guys,
  I sincerely hope that what ARR is going through now is just a passing phase. It would be sad if ARR continues to dish out Humma Hummas and Thaiyya thaiyyas. His popularity is so immense as of now that he is eclispsing better efforts by other music directors.I certainly hope that he shows more creativity in his future ventures.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ ) on: Thu Feb 25 14:07:50 EST 1999
  
  This revival is in sincere hope that all "ARR sucks" sentiments can be voiced as a whole here so I can avoid this thread like the few blocks of stench in the seedy part of town. If the same could be done for IR, then one can roam freely on the rest of DF without having to suffer impromptu digressive mudslinging in every thread. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about this. . .
  
  Well, back to reality...
  I owe RajaG a response since I said I would respond in a different thread. Here's his original posting from "New Releases by ARR" thread:
  
  From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Thu Feb 25 11:41:10 EST 1999
  
  Udhaya,
  
  My intention was not to start a comparison 'war' among IR, MSV, ARR etc. However, by stating that ARR was not above it, I guess without intending to do so, I might have started one. Luckily adhu pusvaaNamaai pOyiduththu. Thanks for your caution.
  
  Here's my two cents on ESK. I have heard it many times and the songs don't do anything to me. In fact I think, all of ARR's recent albums (Jeans, UyirE, ESK) are quite ordinary in terms of melody, choice of singers, orchestration etc. I wish ARR finds the inspiration which he had when he composed for Thiruda Thiruda, Pudhiya Mugham, Uzhavan etc. Let's take a hypothetical case of trying to introduce ARR's music to somebody who has not heard his music before. What is the probability that we are going to play any of his latest creations to create 'a desired first impression?' Very low, I have to guess.
  
  RajaG,
  What can I say? You have given your opinion, I disagree with it. Since we are not picking apart the songs or charanams or interludes specifically, we are going with vague opinions. Okay, here are my vague unschooled opinions.
  
  IMO, Thiruda Thiruda only had one great song, "Raasaaththi".
  Uzhavan had Vaali's underwhelming lyrics with ARR going synthesizer-happy throughout. "Kangalil Enna Eeramo" was my only favorite in it. "Pennalla pennalla Oothaappoo" was Vaali's rehash of his own 80's lyric for "Intha Vanjimagal oru oothaappoo".
  
  Jeans is one of the most wholesome albums of pop music in TFM in the last few years. Every song was uniquely orchestrated--Adhisayam, Kannodu, and Anbae were exquisitely arranged, and UK and HH were great. Save a few irksome brandname-dropping lyrics by VM was mostly decent.
  
  Uyirae had some poor choice of singers for sure, but "Ennuyirae", "Poongaatrilae" and "Nenjinilae" were some of the best songs of 98. For my thorough review of this album check out the "Review..." thread in the Permanent Threads.
  
  En Swaasak Kaatrae has 3 good songs in "En Swaasak Kaatrae", "Thirakkaatha", and "Theendai". For my thorough review of this album check out the "Review..." thread in the Permanent Threads.
  
  So, RajaG, if a new listener didn't give a **** about who made the music and who's better, etc, and just listened to the music itself, he/she would enjoy it. That's my opinion.
  
  If there are dignified, focused debates in this thread I might join in later, if not, happy sparring everybody, I'm outta here.
  
  
  
• From: What else to sing? (@ portal.ameritech.com) on: Thu Feb 25 15:02:46 EST 1999
  
  Hummaiyya, Hummaiyya, Hummaiyya....
  Kaadhodu Kaanbadhu ellame
  Hummaiyya, Hummaiyya, Hummaiyya....
  Uyirey, En Uyirey pokuthey
  Hummaiyya, Hummaiyya, Hummaiyya....
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Thu Feb 25 15:18:36 EST 1999
  
  ARR has more mass appeal than IR. IR's music is too tamilish, and thats why he hasnt been able to make a dent at a national/inter-national level. I do NOT underrate IR's cerdentials.. but for reasons whatsoever, IR's tunes and his music have largely been confined to south-india only.
  
  ARR plays to a larger set of audience. Rangeela and his other hindi albums have been greatly appreciated! Some of the songs of ARR which were very southish in style (eg, Indira's songs in hindi which came as priyanka; and even kanodu kanbadhellam..) didnt go well in north!
  
  But at a national level, its certainly ARR who scores! Yes, there have been repetitions - like milgayi milgayi ye manzile... in kabhi na kabhi is a direct replica of "anjali anjali pushpaanjali" (Duet). Its sad to note that anjali, anjali's hindi version is already present in the hindi-dubbed version of Duet. ARR didnt need this recycling. I wonder why he did that!
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.202) on: Thu Feb 25 16:01:02 EST 1999
  
  Udhaya,
  
  I am going to compare Thiruda Thiruda with Jeans. I am going to try to be as objective as possible, and I hope that my post reflects that. BTW I am not going to spend a whole lot of time on the lyrics of songs, because to a large extent the MD does not have control over it. However, once the lyrics have been provided, I think the MD still has control on completing other aspects of the songs (granted the music track is already complete), like selecion of singers, modulation of the voice of the singer, managing the final edit of the song etc.
  Let's take Thiruda Thiruda first.
  KaNNum KaNNum is a fairly standard upbeat number, but nothing much to write home about. Mano did adequate justice, plus considering the scope of the song I wonder if any other singer could have done anything significantly better.
  Konjam Nilavu was 'pioneering' composition. His choice of Anupama as a singer was appropriate. The only other choice which comes to my mind is Usha Uthup. Anupama gave wonderful expression for 'Mirugam' and the typical pop scream for Oh Oh Oh at the end. ARR did not sing the song but deserves full credit for selecting the right singer (and getting the best out of the singer). Plus, the male harmony in the chorus, the interplay of humming with congas, and the guitar counters (though only a slight variation of the prelude of Usilampatti from gentleman) are also worthy of mention in this song.
  Raasathi Ennusuru was a wonderful acappella (almost) with three levels of choral harmony. The selection of Sahul Hameed as the singer was fantastic. The nature of the song and the naattupuraththu lyrics demanded a rustic voice. And Saahul delivered. The only other choice I would have considered is Ilayaraja doing the vocals.
  Veerapaandi KottayilEy - Violins, that's all I'm going to say.
  
  Puththam Pudhu Boomi Vendum - Awesome prelude with Flute and Chorus. I did'nt understand a single word of what the chorus singers were singing but honestly, I did'nt care. The blending of Mano's voice with the Female Chorus (at their lower octave) in the middle of each interlude was very clever. The mixing was so smooth and subtle. I am talking about Male- Vandu Utkaarum poo melE Female - Naam vandhu Utkaarum...)
  Thee Thee thithikkum Thee - Choice of Caroline was not agreeable. The interplay of slap Guitar with Jathis was remarkable and never been done before in TFM. Or for that matter, the staccato playing of flute interludes with muththaaippu to lead the interlude vocals. How about just using acoustic guitar to start of the rhythm patterns for the vocals.
  I feel there was a lot more in Thiruda Thiruda than what an amateur like me can decipher.
  Let's now go to Jeans.
  
  KaNNodu Kaanbadhellaam - Very similar to Singaara Velane in style. The rhythm sounds like it was "patterned" from some standard drums module. In fact, there is no variation in the 'nadai'in the accompanying percussion even when there is a supposedly kalpana swaram in the conclusion of the song. IMO Nithyasree sounds bad whenever she goes to the mElsthaayee in this song. She opens her voice up when she says "aam" in kaanbadhellaam.
  Columbus Columbus - Kaattu Kaththal by Rehmaan. Try playing Columbus Columbus and Musthaafa Musthaafaa pallavi on the keyboard.
  Haayra Haayra Haay Rabbaa - UK and Pallavi both sucked big time. Pallavi's voice and diction were not clear and I feel she was singing a couple of notches beyond her range. And UK. What the **** were those carnatic style "nam kaadhalai kavi paadavEy". He could have been singing this part of the song in Music Academy for all you know. Even, faxil vandha pudhuk kavidhai enakkEy "enakkaaaaaa" briga was totally inappropriate. I have come to the conclusion not to blame UK any more. According to me he has adequately demonstrated his abilities and inabilities. If an MD still uses him for an inappropriate song, then the MD is totally to blame.
  
  Adhisayam - No comments (maybe I will, later)
  
  AnbEy anBey - The composition, especially the charanams sounds very Hindi film like. I will come back with comparisons, but please give me some time. Hariharan has done one of those out of place briga (considering the mood of the song)in the last line of the charanam. Sounds like he is trying to squeeze one too many note within the beat.
  Vaarayen thOzhi - Have you heard 'Oh mErE sOna re?". I liked Sonu Nigam's singing and even the Oh Yeahs and the improvs.
  
  I hate to bring any personal experience into a discussion because it brings in subjectivity. But for what(ever) it is worth, I wanted to share this. Every two bit orchestra can and do play at least four songs from Jeans viz. Haayra, Kannodu, Vaarayen thOzhi, Anbey Anbey. I have friends who have got these sequenced with atleast 90% effect in results. Apart from KaNNum KaNNUm (and Rasathi which needs no orchestration)most orchestras struggle to reproduce any other songs from Thiruda Thiruda. Trust me, they all want to, but there are too many subtleties to be picked up and worked on.
  
  I think I have presented my case for why TT is better than Jeans. If I have not been able to convince you, I will never be able to, so I will leave it as "agree to disagree". While I do not know you personally, from reading your posts I believe that you continuously check the legs on the "muyal" that you have caught and not stick to a given opinion, even if it is yours.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Thu Feb 25 16:16:11 EST 1999
  
  Good Analysis rajaG. I agree with you completely.
  
  

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