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Great Impact of ARR on Indian contemporary Music and IsaiGnani

Topic started by The Fan (@ spider-we053.proxy.aol.com) on Thu Nov 12 02:16:07 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

By now we must appreciate the positive qualities of ARR's musical genre or style and interpretations. ARR has single handendly made film music and that too, Tamil film music one of the most favorite discussion topics anywhere. He reengineered or turned around the concept of film music in India and made it a pop culture. Though there is something left to be desired in his creativity, he has forever changed the landscape of Indian film music. Taking it to a different platform, he has escaped comparisons and stands at the heap of a new generation of musical presentation and thought. I feel glad that ARR happened at the right time to Indian films. Otherwise look what might have happened to Isaignani, who probably would've lost the inspiration to stay around. ARR's has woken up IR from his classical mode and made IR change mode to a trendy style, eg: KM and MVU, each filmy score of IR getting more experimental and in tune with current taste for music. In other words, I personally thank ARR for being the EYES AND EARS OF IR. New rhythms, extremely different melodic structures. etc.. In addition, ARR is gaining on to be the next icon of music in Indian film music, maybe not in Tamil film music, however. This is what we need. New persectives, a 360 degree difference in styles. In this thread, it will be beneficial to talk about how ARR brought in new things that made us wonder why didn't our other composers attempt this, so easy, so out there, why didn't they. And,difficult innovations that challenged even IR. This will discussion should be purely to discuss the impact of ARR's contributions and his impact on IR's creative styles.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Pradeep Ananth (@ slip129-37-161-188.on.ca.ibm.net) on: Sun Nov 15 22:24:15 EST 1998
  
  DISCLAIMER: All this is "IMO"(srinath helped me learn some netiquette-Thanks Man).
  Well, so now the argument is ARR is part of movies which depict the lives of less than 5% of the Indian population. In that case why would a 'Mustafa Mustafa' and 'Urvasi Urvasi' be hummed by lungi-clad villagers. Whatever the genre of movies, music is universal. If a Beethoven or Bach is presented in a simpler way I bet even our now famous "lungi-clad guy in the village" would be able to appreciate the depth in that music. U just have to get used to a genre of music. I think even people in the most unsophisticated village should be given the right to hear good music. U feed them with more and more of "Vaadi, Podi" stuff u basically cause further decline in taste. And if the movie needed a rustic song ARR did come up with that neat song-"Maari MAzhai" stuff in Uzhavan. One more point to note here is that ARR is very selective in the movies he does. He has strict standards as to which movies his music has to adorn-some basic ingredients(of course there were exceptions like VAndicholai Chinrasu etc.)like a good banner, a quality director, premium starcast etc. Nobody prevented IR from doing such a thing. I am sure that if IR were to use his talent to compose for "classy" films and not a "Kokkarakko" or some crap like that he would have done justice to his enormous potential. This again I attribute it to the lack of professionalism prevalent in the industry then and it s a pity that IR was a victim of that phenomenon.
  
  
• From: Nirupama (@ mut-53-0129.direct.ca) on: Mon Nov 16 04:06:51 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep Ananth:
  Thanks for clarifying your first posting by pointing it out as an 'opinion only.' Now that you've made yourself clear, I have a few questions for you. What do you mean by "professionalism" and what do you think that IR lacks in that area? What gave you the idea that folk music(which contains the basic seeds of any culture) is degrading or 'causes a decline in taste'? And finally why does ARR rely on the so-called quality directors to inspire him while IR can and will give 'classy' music to directors of all kinds (latest examples would be "Manam Virumbuthe Unnai, Kizhakkum Merkkum"). I have a lot more to ask you but I'll let you answer these questions first.
  
  My view on this topic is as follows.... ARR did bring in a lot of changes into TFM. They were widely accepted mainly because it was very different from the norm of film music. Another positive (this is quite debatable!) aspect in his brand of music is his influence (not copy!) from various international genres of music. So, people with little exposure to world music were also able to enjoy the diversity he presented. Also since his main target market was the 'young adults' he focused more on rhythm based melodies rather than heavy orchestrations. I feel that his main drawback is his self-defined style that he created and his refusal to step out of it.
  
  Coming to Isaignani....I agree that he was kind of slacking off in the mid 90s. This might be caused by his lack of enthusiasam/inspiration (he has been working for over 22 yrs now, hasn't he??), other committments (eg. symphony was composed during this time), or a simple vacation from work. But when he returned to work in his full form (after a short rule by ARR), I still very much see the old inimitable Illaiyarajah in action and not a converted genius. His music is still very IR-ish and you can only notice a change in his choice of singers and instrumentation (whenever the situation demands it). He still prefers to use the tabla & the flute with the other native instruments (thank God!!) for folk music. If you guys think that using a few synthesizers or electronic instruments can be termed as Rahmanish, then I would think that it is Rahman who followed IR and not the other way around. Of course, he is also capable of bringing out creative beats & rhythm without relying on the western albums. From my observation, I can only see a renewed interest in IR's music and not too much of influences from the current crop of MDs. So, IMO, it still hasn't happened yet....
  
  Sriks:
  If ARR has been appreciated by the North-indians, it's because he prefers to cater to them rather than compose South-indian music. He is very much influenced by hindi ghazals, qwalis, punjabi bangra etc. And of course he predominantly uses the western pop, rap and other contemporary styles of music, which is appreciated by people of all backgrounds. IR's excellence lies in the fact that he chooses to compose 'South-indian' music that can be appreciated by people of all nations (ref: 'Impact of TFM in other communities' thread).
  
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Mon Nov 16 04:53:46 EST 1998
  
  one must keep in mind the circumstances and the age in which both these talents flowered. when IR came onto the scene, TFM was restricted to tamilnad and maybe getting copied in AP and had some following in kerala too. moroever, the film scene was in decadence, with over-55 guys pretending to be college students, entire movies shot inside cardborad houses. if u leave out KB and people like durai and r c sakthi, the rest of tamil cinema was steeped in mediocrity. IR was badly trying to make it big and thus he could not afford to be choosy about directors, plots, themes or banners.
  today's greats like BR, VM, kamal, maniratnam, mahendran all arrived more or less during the same period. everyone was in a state of infancy as far as their stature went.
  ARR, on the other hand, had the good fortune of being introduced by mani and kb, who had already ensured their places in the TF hall of fame. of course he went on to work with newcomers like shankar and kathir, but the era they were making their films was far removed from the age when IR peaked.
  people have been exposed to so much music these days unlike earlier. kalloori saalai and kannum kannum would not have been accepted by the audience, say 20 years ago. only orambo orambo rukkumani vandi varuthu sold then.
  what i am trying to drive at is that ARR had the advantage of the advent of consumerist culture, globalisation, etc in TN. when IR came, tapes were a rarity, while today CDs are commmonplace, and even in the rural areas, people talk about digital and stuff. so tech professionalism is something that ARR could not ignore.
  secondly, after Roja became a national phenomenon, there was a sudden market for the ARR sound. in the beginning, everyone was filching from his tunes (remember muqabla's 7 copies). even today, aadi paaru mangaatha has been copied for some akshay kumar film. then the soundtracks of Tmovies with ARR's music (duet, indira) were being dubbed and released to make a quick buck.
  now ARR has realised that he has become a brand and that his name sells like noboy's business, and he has started composing to suit everyone's tastes. i'm sure he even thinks of whether the dubbed lyrics can fit into the tune. in such a scenario, he cannot afford to compose purely local-flavoured music (exception: iruvar, which was not dubbed or copied anywhere).
  
  back later, guys
  
  
• From: Pradeep Ananth (@ slip129-37-153-188.on.ca.ibm.net) on: Mon Nov 16 09:14:11 EST 1998
  
  Responses to Nirupama's queries:
  
  "Professionalism" is a a very abstract concept. To make it sound as simple as possible, I can say professionalism is to have a very well-defined set of "top-quality" standards for each and every aspect of one's job and a professional sticks to this framework. ANother aspect of a professional is a constatnt quest for learning newer and newer things and keep reinventing oneself. ARR is supposed to be working with ten Apple Macs and 2/3 Kurzweil systems in his studios. Any new musical instrument hits the market ARR has wind of it and tries to add it to his repertoire as far as possible. Note here that I am NOT telling that fancy gadgets are necessary for GOOD MUSIC. But fancy gadgets do have the capabilities to produce some extraordinary sounds which simply multiply one's listening pleasure. None can deny that fact. If u could listen to ARR's music on an audio-tape and then listen to its CD version one will know what I am saying.
  On the other hand IR never felt a necessity to keep himslef abreast with technological changes in music and didn't give an opportunity to TFM listeners a flavour for world music. He relied on the simplicity of his tunes-but that is where his strength lay. ARR's music takes music from simply being an art towards making it more of a science for one to perfect. And there are pros and cons attached with this approach too.
  
  
  Hey! I never said that folk music is degrading. Please do not read between lines when making such comments. I said that "vadi podi" stuff causes a decline in taste. This stuff can be city stuff or folk songs,doesn't matter. In fact I specifically mention "Mari Mazhai" from Uzhavan was a nice folk number from ARR. Folk or not, I am just emphasizing that the music should impart a pleasant feeling to the listener. The lyrics also are to be blamed for this. Here again ARR was lucky to have Vairamuthu pen down most of his songs.
  < And finally why does ARR rely on the so-called quality directors to inspire him while IR can and will give 'classy' music to directors of all kinds (latest examples would be "Manam Virumbuthe Unnai, Kizhakkum Merkkum"). >
  To answer this question I have to harp back to my old statement 'ARR is a professional'. He spends tons of money on his msuic production.Thats his style and u cannot blame him for that. people like Mani or Shankar are the ones whose movies would merit that kind of "expensive" music. That richness in the sounds is a necessary ingredient for the kind of themes they choose for their movies. ARR, am sure can definitely have a tabla or just a veena and provde good music(Standing example: "Rasathi en usiru" in Thiruda Thiruda with absolutely no instruments) but that just isn't his style. But if u ask ARR to do music for some crappy movies it will be like asking somebody to drive his new Merc Benz in the narrowest streets of a remote village in Bihar. It simply wouldn't make sense. Merc Benz is also a car and a 1960 Amby is also a car. But then a 1960 Amby can do well in those narrow streets. That doesn't mean that a Merc Benz is a bad car.
  
  
  Expecting a lot more...
  cheers.
  P.S: If I am right Manam virumbuthe Unnai was by Devaa and not by IR.When I say Devaa I mean I am not sure of the source...:))
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss02.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Nov 16 10:51:17 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep Ananth:
  IR never relied on his simplistic tunes. His work is among the most complex and well knit compositions in modern day India. IMO, ARR is the one who relies on catchy tunes. Never mind, any more arguments like this would only turn this discussion into another ARR Vs IR fight ! We just have different opinions on the subject, so let's leave it at that.
  
  The quest for perfection need not be unidirectional. IR has established himself as the foremost proponent of Western Classical music in India. I agree that IR is far behind ARR when it comes to using technology. But when it comes to music, there isn't much that IR has to learn from ARR. If anything, ARR influenced IR to keep up with current tastes, which IMHO are shallow, justifiably, due to various factors like fast pace of living, blah, blah, blah. I don't think he has influenced IR's knowledge as far as music is concerned. Point being that IR's earlier songs were far better than his new ones (which follow ARR's example).
  
  My previous posting was to point out ARR's negative influences in a positive way - without sounding aggrieved.
  
  As far as professionalism is concerned, ARR is a career musician, IR has always been a musician - with or without TFM.
  
  In general, I think it would be nice if we could concentrate on how ARR has influenced the current TFM scenario rather than trying to prove that he is superior to IR. I think IR's music has degraded because of ARR's influence. But the influence is certainly there.
  
  

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