Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.
Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?
Regards,
Anand
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Allah Rakka Rehman (@ 208.24.179.211)
on: Wed Mar 1 15:56:11 EST 2000
ambleen,
Not many people know how I 'stole' IR's tune to come up with Chinna Chinna Aasai. I would really appreciate if you do not spill the beans in a public forum like this. By the way your musical knowledge and awareness is awesome. I will 'take care of you' if you could kindly keep these 'secrets' to yourself. Thanks.
- From: Neel (@ ts001d38.har-ct.concentric.net)
on: Wed Mar 1 21:32:34 EST 2000
That is funny, thanks for the laugh.
Desi - I thought Indians were called "Pakis" in England, not in North America.
Anyway, ARR's music in my opinion is very commercial and noisy. Please listen to the song "Alai payudhe" from the movie "Alai Payudahe". What is up with that drum, huh? That is what I call massacre of good classical music. He does occasionally come up with some good music but unfortunately they sound too north Indian to my ears. By the way, Rajinikanth is a good actor though. Please watch his movies like "Bhuvana Oru Kelvikkuri", "Mullum Malarum", "Aarilirundhu 60 varai", "Thambiku endha ooru", etc. Sorry for the digression, I just love Rajinikanth.
- From: Rasayya (@ dhcp-css-consult-12.lg.informix.com)
on: Wed Mar 1 21:58:47 EST 2000
Ambleen, AR Rahman
Music has only seven notes and a "different" song simply has the notes arranged in a different order.
- From: S (@ netcache31.mot.com)
on: Wed Mar 1 23:57:50 EST 2000
rasayya,
Raja vOda pEr vechuNdu dEva kittEndhu copy adikkalAmA ?? :-)
- From: jp (@ 212.64.194.45)
on: Thu Mar 2 00:29:53 EST 2000
i read in a couple of sites that ARR has got offers from hollywood and that he's decided to take them. i also read
that he's not signing up any new tamil films... is it true ?
- From: jp (@ 212.64.194.45)
on: Thu Mar 2 00:30:09 EST 2000
i read in a couple of sites that ARR has got offers from hollywood and that he's decided to take them. i also read that he's not signing up any new tamil films... is it true ?
- From: vimal (@ lib-ws-249.lib.asu.edu)
on: Thu Mar 2 01:34:33 EST 2000
Yeah,
and Supreme Star Chiranjeevi is the hero!
- From: Kamesh (@ hlr-13-219.tm.net.my)
on: Thu Mar 2 01:35:00 EST 2000
Good for HCIRF
- From: prabhudas (@ nico.pediatrics.sunysb.edu)
on: Thu Mar 2 03:47:20 EST 2000
Kamesh,
it is not good for HCIRF, u know what is good for HCIRF , ARR should accept more Tamil movies and Hindi movies (all big budget) and few Hollywood movies (solla mudiyaadupaa?) and each and every one of them should become terrible flops(both album and the movie) with not even one hit song
(eppadi aasai?),
Just kidding man .......
If we don't compare ARR to anybody still he is the best among the crop of crappy MDs
prabhudas
- From: ambleen (@ sbproxy3.mystarhub.com.sg)
on: Thu Mar 2 06:03:10 EST 2000
ARR,
Sorrie. May be i should have just left it in the X-files bin: 'the truth is out there'
:)
- From: Arun Baskar (@ 164.164.128.13)
on: Mon Mar 6 04:09:07 EST 2000
i never consider ARR as a music director, because he just doing tinkering works to old tamil and western songs and markets them well, so that it becomes a hit. So don't compare with Maestros and make yourself a fool.
- From: Rasikhai (@ 195.44.223.151)
on: Mon Mar 6 14:49:50 EST 2000
Arun i greatly beg to differ about your comment....As you say, ARR is not re-tinkering old Tamil works....It is the common practice of all md's.
Don't bad mouth the man who has brought Tamil music to where it is on a worldwide level.
- From: rasigan (@ ddslppp102.desm.uswest.net)
on: Mon Mar 6 19:13:49 EST 2000
booohoooooooooooooooo......I want tamil music to sound like THAMIZH music...I dont want tinkered polluted music...miss you vintage raaaasa...
- From: SS (@ 202.9.146.8)
on: Mon Mar 6 22:52:45 EST 2000
IR : BEETHOVAN
ARR: MICHEL JACKSON(but sometimes copy from MSV):)
- From: STS (@ sf-ip-3-211.dynamic.ziplink.net)
on: Tue Mar 7 02:29:12 EST 2000
SS,
I enjoyed your second line especially the line within brackets. Laughing here...
STS
- From: Athi (@ netcache1.mot.com)
on: Tue Mar 7 18:00:28 EST 2000
I just had the misfortune of listening to some
song from Mudhalvan and I couldn't stand it for
more than a few seconds.
It sounded like a rehash of some western pop
song.
ARR epitomizes marketing and hype and how far
that can take a person.
And people like diamond make such funny statements like ARR is very good in composing
folk music.
Athi
- From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com)
on: Tue Mar 7 20:21:36 EST 2000
Athi,
Even the BGM has been copied or inspired from Western sources.
I think with IR's retreat from the #1 spot the 'Romantic era' in TFM has ended. Especially with directors like bhArathirAja, bhAgyaraj going to the background. It is now the 'Western era' - total aping of the west and snobbish english lyrics/dialogues/and western drum beat patterns.
I saw Mudhalvan yesterday and felt disgusted by this trend, though the content of the movie had some merit.
- From: Desi (@ b62-90.das.mcgill.ca)
on: Tue Mar 7 20:58:34 EST 2000
Neel- Shows how much you know about North America. Man, this is one of the most racist places in the world. So, think before you talk.
If it's a 'joke' 2u, i'll say you're a jackass!
(sorry, but if u sincerely believe that it's a joke, than u r!)
If u think ARR's messages are just a lot of noise, listen to HEY! RAM, That was the worst thing I've ever heard in my life)
- From: Gyani (@ iq-ind-as007-141.iquest.net)
on: Tue Mar 7 23:01:07 EST 2000
Yeap may be for people who doesn't know what is music and think just noise alone is music Hey!Ram is a worst thing. If you listen to "Nee Partha Parvai" just that song will eclipse all musical nonsense from ARR.
- From: vijanth (@ mayo.ee.qub.ac.uk)
on: Wed Mar 8 07:04:44 EST 2000
IR is John William good in BGM and classical Music and ARR is Baby Face with all kind of mixture and ofcourse not towards babyface.
Whatever ..there are both south indian talents
or Indians talents. Ayoo ARR ponthu eppidiya
kolluriga...
I understand if he goes on composing his piece
this way he wont float but what else can he do
since he is not MD at all.
Just let him compose whatever for the amateur
listener out there and make indin music busines
a run for cash
Bless you
- From: vijanth (@ mayo.ee.qub.ac.uk)
on: Thu Mar 9 07:48:50 EST 2000
Just for you info... AR Rahman is getting famous now. His name now is Appearing every where in
UK. His joint venture with Lord Webber and Shekar
Kapur appeared even in BBC news 24 and creating
headline in BBC homepage.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_669000/669171.stm
I think this guy is a marketing genious rather than a music director. And they even show Dil Se
Chaya Chaya ..the song that inspired Lord Webber
to sign on AR Rahman.
What ever it would be ..all the best for ARR
Bless you
- From: SS (@ 202.9.164.105)
on: Thu Mar 9 09:45:22 EST 2000
IR : idly,sambar(you can live with that itself)
ARR: chilly chicken(you need it occsionally for some difference)
- From: SS (@ 202.9.164.105)
on: Thu Mar 9 09:49:23 EST 2000
>His joint venture with Lord Webber and Shekar
>Kapur appeared even in BBC news 24 and creating
THALAIVA!!LORD WEBBERE, NAMMA IR ODA KAL THUSIKKU SAMAM,APPURAM AVAR KUDA YAR "JOINT VENTURE" POTTA ENNA? :))
- From: chandy (@ ws025038.coba.siu.edu)
on: Thu Mar 9 10:02:26 EST 2000
SS,
I appreciate your admiration for IR. But its a bit toooo much to make statements like
"LORD WEBBERE, NAMMA IR ODA KAL THUSIKKU SAMAM"
- From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112)
on: Thu Mar 9 12:30:43 EST 2000
SS: your comment is not funny but ridiculous.
Lord Webber has stuff. ARR has stuff. They have produced good stuff. They can produce good stuff. So please try to stuff this in your upper chamber, only to egest the stuff you already have there. What mean comments !huh !
- From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com)
on: Thu Mar 9 14:12:23 EST 2000
Well..for one it is Andrew Lloyd Webber ..not a Lord. Webber is famous for his musicals and the Evita movie with Madonna. If he is making a musical with an Indian subject he needs an Indian collaborator. So he picked the top name in the current music scene. The musical scene is not very different from the POP world. They need some catchy tunes/melodies.
In my opinion, Webber's style is very close to IR's but I think he picked ARR because he is the one who gives 'modern' melodies and beats.Also, ARR makes songs in the current POP format. So it is easy for westerners to understand. IR might be too 'Indian' for him, how much ever he mixes Western classical. His style could be confusing or sound 'archaic' to them.
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