Topic started by Gyan (Devastated by How To Name It for good!!!!) (@ 4.159.244.175) on Tue Jun 15 23:31:27 EDT 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
I think every music lover or composer who thinks they are on a higher musical plane has to ask one thing before they think they are: Can they appreciate the depth and beauty of IR' How To Name It.
Why I say this is, in my young days I used to be "instantly" fascinated by Western Classical Music, thinkin it was the ultimate,and Indian classical all stupid!!! How wrong I am now!!!
I had heard IR' HTNI in 89 and I just couldn't figure it out what the heck it was. Even a decade later, I could not understand how it could be called great or even enjoyable. I've seen only folks who enjoy Carnatic music call it great and that made me dislike Carnatic music even more.
Now, I call HTNI, the FINAL FRONTIER OF MUSIC, Avant-Garde, light years ahead, Masterpiece of all classical albums I've heard, etc... It is also how I now measure a person's depth of music appreciation. Recently, I gave it to an elderly couple who goes to Symphonies. They just returned it saying they could not follow it at all!!!!
So, Western classical music lovers cannot accept HTNI, because it is so profound and not instant jingle bells and also my fascination with Western Classical these days is skin-deep only, nothing mean about it, just that I want deeper music that never cease to bewilder me. I still love Western classical, pop etc... but HTNI is giving me a new understanding of how much complex music can get for the true everlasting beauty that remains to be discovered in it depth!!!!!!
Can I say the same of many TFM dfers other than Carnatic music lovers in this forum - that many could not just understand HTNI for several years initially, but they now see the beauty of it, finally?
Also, those who liked it first time itself, please explain the basis, whether it was Carnatic background or yours or just your own musical perception. Would you consider this as this album as the best measure of a music lover or composer' musical growth or maturity? Or, is there another measure?
My other question is: Is Nothing But Wind also as profound as HTNI? ( I could not enjoy NBW because of muted flute notes at times, but I did not get back to it as I did with HTNI) Did anyone feel it was not fully astounding as HTNI.
Q3: Does "SSSSA" know if IR will come out with more HTNI type albums?!!! That is a legacy for the next 1000 years of music, i feel.
Also, the more intriguing question, do you think HTNI with a full fledged Symphonic Orchestra would've been fulfilling?!!!!!!!! (by the way was L Vaidyanathan the dual violinist with Narasimhan?)
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: k (@ 192.138.150.249)
on: Wed Jun 16 19:46:08 EDT 2004
Osho,
You might have helped me regain my self-esteem. I too could not detect a fugue in the track labeled as such. I will listen to HTNI tonight, to see if your ordering sounds right.
(a good suggestion by vijay - use film albums market exposure to sell classical works)
- From: SSSSA (@ 66.57.14.197)
on: Wed Jun 16 21:45:30 EDT 2004
I was fortunate to hear IIR actually singing the Thiruvasagam verses with a piano accompanying him[He himself was playing!] in front of Stephen Schwartz and SS actually came up from his chair and hugged IIR with emotions. I even mentioned this in the first write-up of IIR's visit in January. That was a memorable scene and Ananth from NJ and Kannan from India can vouch safe to this fact. The next day, IIR spontaneously started singing more verses[more than he sang the previous day in front of SS] and we[me and Sridhar Seetharaman] actually cried, moved by the 'urukkam' and the genuinity of this great man . This is no'jaalraa' but an honest fact. All I am pleading with you all is this: do not approach this particular subject with any bias or favor. IIR is, more than all of us, interested in the project TiS coming out creditably and be rest assured that he will do anything and everything to make it a memorable treasure for all of us. I am very confident of this. The only thing we all can do, in the meantime, is to do anything possible within your capacity to be part of this noble venture and pray along with him for its success. Thank you.
Regarding releasing it with a movie hit, it is a good suggestion and let's hope that he gives a hit in September during TiS' release! But, let me tell you that the success of TiS is YOU and YOU will make it happen!!
[Please visit www.sulekha.com/tis, if you don't mind.]
YIA!!
- From: Gyan (@ 4.158.114.170)
on: Thu Jun 17 00:18:56 EDT 2004
ok, the voltage stuff means i am blowing my own fuse these days, but not without ample reason. the longest i've heard any album in my life is that of HTNI, 3 years running now, on and off, each time feeling like as if I am experiencing a burst of Supernova, nothing less.
each of the tracks just blow me away totally, i am very helpless at the complexity, depth, intricary and infinite infinite beauty and that with the most simple of orchestrations from IR. What a choice of instruments. That too, in 1984, just around 6 years into IR' busy film career! (NBW is the one that came in 1989)
So, whatever IR said long ago, becomes clear to people like me 2 decades later!!! HTNI is nothing like even IR' film songs and he said to Guitar Prasanna long ago it seems that IR has so many ideas but can't bring it up in film music!!!! How very true. Each piece is like having no way to stop going on into unexpected sounds and tunes and it looks to me IR had to foreably stop each one of them at a max of around 8 mins. This is unbelievable outburst of thematic development.
The jacket has got an excellent write-up by god knows who, but someone equally enlightened as IR in music, perhaps. From the write-up only I arranged the song numbers:
2. Don't Compare, placed as no. 9
then no. 2 is actually no.3 (Mad, Mod, Mood and Fugue) and so on until no.8 which is acutally no.9 and no.9 is no.2
Definitely, HTNI has the potential to become one of the most coveted violin virtuoso performances in Orchestras of the future around the world.
- From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34)
on: Thu Jun 17 05:55:45 EDT 2004
Vijay, thx for reminding me of "Aruna Kirana" song from Guru. What a song. There is another masterpiece in the album "Guru saranam". Man!, if any one uses chorus to perfection for a whole song, it has to be IR. Brilliant song that is.
The guru interludes would make a album. Profound orchestration. IR has to simultaneously produce filmi/ non filmi music, to gain a better market leverage on selling his albums. Thats essential.
Vijay, on your note on IR giving music atleast in MFM, the golden age of malayalam cinema has ended. Padmarajan (Moonam Paakkam)(Is he the best Director, india has ever produced!!!), Bharathan, Mohan along with IR had given some wonderfull films. Its not the same with the new breed of cimema directors in malayalam. IR can include that his songs were better picturised in the hands of the above directors than the tamil counterparts (leaving a few).
- From: Sridharan (@ 202.153.37.115)
on: Mon Jun 21 09:15:22 EDT 2004
Gyan,
Fans of IR, should be greatly happy if he comes out with more non-filmi albums, keeping in pace with the Current market trend of private musical albums. Even Remixes of his own BGM Tracks.
I had an oppurtunity, to listen HTNI and NBW in the latest DENON DTS 7.1 Amp, setting the mode to DTS-EX. The System splits the sound automatically to the rear and middle speakers. Wow, it was absolutely great. I was able to feel the manual instrument work of each musician involved in the album.
In one of the track in NBW, the composer has very beatifully outlined the theme 'Life Cycle from Birth to Death', which am sure no average listener can understand. It goes like
1. Birds Chirpping & melodious and energetic flute piece indicating the birth of a child
2. Some mischevious music, comical type indicating its younger days.
3. A Steady Violin and Flute Piece, bringing out Youth Stage.
4. goes on and on, and a twist, with some comic type - indicating his old age...
5. All of a sudden, the music stops and plays the same beginning tune, but as a tragedy note, indicating the Death.
6. A train journey sound - Life is a journey with stages...
7. A Plane sound - Life is Fast, just one take off and landing...
8. Some graveyard feeling sound, with mantrams on the back ground.
9. Then Heavenly type of Sounds...
10. A typical North Indian function type of music..
11. Ends up with the notes of the beginning, indicating 'REBIRTH'.
What a great thought. I may be poor in expressing the feel of the song. But i really enjoyed the theme of the song covered in just 10 minutes of time. Hari Prasad Chaurasia flute is additional plus point.
- From: Gyan (@ 4.158.114.222)
on: Mon Jun 21 12:59:32 EDT 2004
Sridharan, here are some serious insights, even bb may make a note of this:
the whole latent basis that I opened this meaningful thread is this: long ago IR said "Carnatic Music is the most profound even though he does not like to compare." I just didn't accept that statement and thus HTNI just was not my style. I was more into Western Classical and Instrumental. And, I asked myself If IR finds Carnatic as the roots of his creativity, then how does he sound so western or approach it with western orchestratio, etc.. Should IR not be acknowledging that Western Classical is actually fascinating and Carnatic plain boredom.
I'v matured in the last 5 years only!!! and I find that Carnatic is indeed the mother lode of music, and the grandmother of the fascinating Indian film music.
This is what I am saying that Western is kinda the digital format and Indian classical the analog, but with much more history that went into the birth of many raagas based on time and cultural and spiritual factors, all 3 of which are present in only minute percentages in Western classical. Let us say, in another 500 years Western music will converge to the Indian levels, that is saying that it is catching up much faster than we have developed the Carnatic system, if u see what I mean about the history/time factor.
I've to listen to NBW after understanding your insight. It was a short album, that is one thing I did not understand also.
Another statement I am making ahead of current research in the filed of cutlure, anthropology or music: what if as I have been indicating in this forum at other topics, what if "Music is a form of Carbon Dating of civilizational history? Think about it and you'll see, that Musical maturity will be the key to understadning a civilization' spiritual and social longevity in the past and to the future. Again, there is another issue known as Aggressive Music ;----) that has reduced the value of civilzation and also has proven destructive to social growth./
- From: raycas (@ 131.130.125.13)
on: Mon Jun 21 13:33:59 EDT 2004
so just for the records: "how to name it" was released 1983 and "nothing but wind" 1989?
i've been seaching for the release years of both these albums... just like to keep my id-tags complete...
anyway, thanks...
raycas
p.s.: great albums by the way... i love the starting of how to name it...
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