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'IR says NO to songs put on the net'

Topic started by Subbiah (@ 192-39-7147.unisys.com) on Mon May 15 09:03:40 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Please refer to the latest message from IR in his official website www.raaja.com. He has requested the fans not to upload the songs on the net. He is asking to buy the original CD's/Tapes. I feel that he is right. I would like to see other's reaction to this IR's statement. Please proceed.

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Responses:

• From: Udhaya (@ 209.36.218.162) on: Mon May 15 14:23:25 EDT 2000
  
  Personally, I think the web is a good place to preview a song. When I heard the songs from IR's TIME, I rushed to the store after work and bought the CD. But when I heard some other works like "Manam Virumbuthae Unnai", on the net, I realized it didn't suit my needs so I didn't buy the CD. Hearing songs on the net, despite bad sound quality, allows me to sort through the maze of new music and pick my favorites.
  
  Any music lover worth his/her salt would want to own a CD instead of relying on the net. If I were to blindly buy new CDs without hearing the songs first, would IR or any distributor be willing to refund me if I hated the CD? I think not.
  
  I think IR should look at the greater good of spreading his music and influencing people to buy his music through the net rather than jump on the piracy bandwagon which has many related issues working against the consumer. The related issues--exorbitant prices($13-$15 US dollars for a CD is outrageous), a good soundtrack coupled with a lousy one, missing songs from the soundtrack.
  
  So, if songs on the net curtail the revenues for a few corporate fat cows, it is only one small advantage the customer has over the system of music distribution. Long live songs on the net!
  
  
• From: chandy (@ ws025038.coba.siu.edu) on: Mon May 15 14:40:24 EDT 2000
  
  There are 2 issues here - one is the piracy and second is internet as a delivery mode of music. The 2 issues shouldnt be confused with each other.
  
  Sooner or later, net is going to be a regular mode of delivery of music. From what we see on internet today, Net a medium of music delivery is going be a dominant mode in future - it cannot be avoided. Net may not be very popular medium of music delivery in India right now, but it is going be a major force in near future. It is essential to understand this and be net-savvy, to make the best possible use of it from a business point of view. Instead of avoiding net altogether (which is not going to work), it would be wiser to think about the best possible ways to exploit this medium.
  
  CDs, sooner or later will have to be available cheaper to the customers. Else the music companies will eventually loose out.
  
  If the music companies themselves make an effort to put out their songs on net (in certain format with some secured features), that would be good way to listen to the music before someone wants to buy it and own it. If music companies take the initiative themselves, the mushroom like net-music pirates will seek some better jobs.
  
  While I agree with IR in principle with his objective of curbing piracy, I dont agree that it could be tackled by not putting songs on net. That wont work and is practically impossible!!!!
  
  
• From: Krishna (@ mailserver01.sb.com) on: Mon May 15 15:44:41 EDT 2000
  
  I think this is something IR has held a very strong conviction for a long time. i do not know how many would remember, IR used to be the music director for all K Balaji's production which was a big banner in the late 70's. At that time the royalty from cassette sales would go just to the producer of the movie. IR was the first MD to take an issue with the producers on this issue. K Balaji refused just based on this issue. IR also took AVM on this issue and later AVM agreed to this. So, IR has always advocated for the creators of the music album to get their due return for their efforts. I see his objections to hosting songs on the net resulting from this principle. Given that the internet is growing as a large channel of distribution, a solution could be worked out where songs could be heard thru' this media without resulting in a significant loss of compensation for the creators of the music album.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.123) on: Mon May 15 19:13:38 EDT 2000
  
  I think the best way is for the music companies to involve themselves in some e-commerce. as someone had already suggested before, these companies can upload copyrighted mp3 formats of the song on the net and charge an appropriate amount for every download of the song. they can make this site password-protected. This way it serves 2 purposes.
  
  It promotes sales of the individual songs/albums that otherwise no one would even think of buying in a pre-recorded version. It permits easy access to songs.(many of us here in YS dont have shops in our town that has all those tamil CDs)and it also helps the listener to put together the downloaded songs according to the sequence in which he wants them to be. He is also not forced to listen to some crappy songs that are a part and parcel of these pre-recorded CDs.
  
  Might be practically difficult, but not entirely impossible.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Mon May 15 22:31:24 EDT 2000
  
  While many have responded to IR and removed their Real Audio songs. I find it outrageous that companies are selling mp3 songs on CD on the internet (www.tamilsongs.net/www.tamilmp3cds.com). Going by the price of these CDs, I am guessing these are being done without the consent of the original publishers.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ 63-217-90-105.sdsl.cais.net) on: Mon May 15 23:50:34 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya:
  I agree 100% with you. Real Audio files are ideal for promoting songs on the web. Had I not listened to Time and Hey Ram on the web, I would not have bought the cassette and CD respectively. After repeated listenings, you either go out and buy the CD/cassette or you decide the song isn't worth owning - in which case, the MD or the music company does *not* deserve my money. I think of it like borrowing a CD/Cassette from my friend and checking it out before buying one for myself. Rather than complain about piracy on the Net, let them come up with great collections. They must concentrate on improving the product rather than chastise the consumer !!! BTW, if IR is afraid of Real Audio songs biting into his pie, there is something seriously wrong somewhere ! I do feel uploading MP3 files ripped off CDs is wrong. With CD Recorders you can literally recreate the original CD this way. But ARR would really have something to worry about with MP3s :-) I bet ARR doesn't worry about RA files on the net ;-))) (Ok, that was a cheap shot against IR, but it's probably true :-))
  
  
• From: suresh (@ dedicated-149.chn.vsnl.net.in) on: Tue May 16 01:26:08 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya and Srinath
  
  agreed, you'd want to sample before you buy the product, but do you require the whole album to be played, before you're convinced to buy? would you want to watch a whole movie instead of a trailer before you go to watch it?
  
  i've noticed many times that i seem to be among a miniscule few here who take the trouble to buy tapes/CDs, be it a Karisakkattu Poove or Kanna Unnai Thedugiren, as they're released and post info here.
  
  udhaya, what corporate fat cows are you talking about? how many music companies in India do you think are making money? i've worked in the audio industry myself, and it pains me that such a cavalier attitude to piracy is widespread even among the knowledgeable.
  
  vijay has made a point that i think is reasonable, but to exult in an illicit (IMO) freedom that technology has given us, and to above all, wrap it in consumerist rhetoric is an injustice to people like us who still eagerly wait for an IR release and don't bemoan spending the 50 Rs. even if the cassette contains one good song.
  
  i understand all the other issues - prices, bad compilations, lack of access, missing songs etc. - you're raising to support your stance, having lived out of India myself, but can never condone this mindless parading of all new releases in the multitude of song lists..
  
  
• From: Kamesh (@ 203.106.110.234) on: Tue May 16 04:58:52 EDT 2000
  
  The bulk of the cassette market is in TamilNadu. And the maximum amount of piracy happens here. Go to any cassette shop down south (Trichy, Kovai, Nellai, Madurai areas, not much at chennai though) and you can find BRANDED pirate works of all popular and unpopular movie songs. These industry people should worry about this instead of pouncing on the net users. If they do this they can see direct increase in revenue. Why are they not doing this? Or are these pirates under political patronage?
  
  
  
• From: suresh (@ dedicated-149.chn.vsnl.net.in) on: Tue May 16 06:58:20 EDT 2000
  
  Kamesh
  
  Try as they do, nobody's been able to stop the piracy menace in TN (or in India for that matter) as the loop-holes here are just too many to plug. Despite posting heavy security guards with all film boxes, everyday raids uncover right in Chennai 100's of pirated VCDs.. Kamal recently almost instigated a riot as his security force clashed with Burma Bazaar traders, finally needing the CMs intervention to sort things.
  
  Plus, audio piracy as prevalent through the 'recording centres' is too deep-rooted in our culture, I guess, for anything to end it immediately. Though, I've seen many shopowners reluctant to record from ARR's new releases, after
  several raids were conducted in Chennai and Coimbatore. The supply chain in audio piracy is too widespread and mobile for any audio company to make a serious attempt to curb it; there have been too many failures in this regard than you can document
  
  All this beside, just so this is happening in TN, does that absolve the people involved in proliferating net piracy? And sad part is, this is being done by a much more informed chain of people (and without any significant commercial
  motive)than the average pirate in Madurai or....
  
  
• From: Subbiah (@ 192.39.227.151) on: Tue May 16 07:15:08 EDT 2000
  
  IR's original message on Copyright. For your ready reference
  http://www.raajangahm.com/message2.html
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ mail.startec.net) on: Tue May 16 10:30:36 EDT 2000
  
  "would you want to watch a whole movie instead of a trailer before you go to watch it? "
  
  I am not buying the movie, am I ? :-)
  
  "i've noticed many times that i seem to be among a miniscule few here who take the trouble to buy tapes/CDs, be it a Karisakkattu Poove or Kanna Unnai Thedugiren, as they're released and post info here. "
  
  Precisely my point. Only a minority is willing to purchase an album even if it is not worth the money. So why not cater to the requirements of the majority and make the composition of the album flexible or ensure that an album titled "Hits of Ilaiyaraaja" has only "hits" of Ilaiyaraaja !
  
  "wrap it in consumerist rhetoric"
  
  Whoa ! Touched a raw nerve, did I ? I am still not paying good money for bad products. Call it rhetoric, call it what you will !
  
  Suresh, I still feel that an MD or a Music Company should not feel threatened by Real Audio songs on the net - yes, even new ones. I also made my point clear about MP3 songs ripped from CDs. I don't see how my statements condone piracy ?
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp02.sprint.com) on: Tue May 16 11:17:44 EDT 2000
  
  Srinath & Udhaya: I am also leaning towards Suresh's logic. I feel loading complete songs definitely violates an opportunity for the song to be otherwise bought by 'you the consumer'. By insisting that IR or ARR should give all hits in a cassette/CD is an unrealistic standard. Plus, who gets to decide what a good song or hit is? If you think that CDs are overpriced at $12 a pop (compared to American CDs) then buy a cassette at $3 (which is definitely comparable to the price of local cassettes) and then buy the CDs that are "proven". True that there are other forms of piracy but that doesn't justify the existence of one more.
  
  My question on a related issue is, I thought these days MDs sold their music to the producers on a per movie basis. ARR gets multiple lakhs or crores for making the music for a movie. I don't think his remuneration is linked to the actual number of units sold. So why are the MDs championing the cause against piracy (instead of the Producers)?
  
  

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