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Why TFM alone??? Ilayaraja is probably the best music director that India has EVER produced. What say all of you??

Topic started by Karthik (@ cnl-4.cnel.ufl.edu) on Fri Aug 8 12:14:55 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Srinath (@ socks10d.raleigh.ibm.com) on: Thu Jun 11 18:06:25 EDT 1998
  
  Bharath:
  For one how would you like a song that "impresses your brain and caresses your heart" too ? I can only hope that you are not fighting an addiction for IRs music :-) ! How many songs of other MDs have appealed to you in the same way ?
  I was not talking about TFM's rules or HFM's rules. I was talking about music as a separate entity. It exists within very well defined boundaries (this would seem contradictory to IRs statement that he does not recognize boundaries :D). MDn, IMHO, is mastery of those rules. MSV did not, I repeat, did not bring in any rules to TFM. Nor did IR for that matter. It would seem to be nothing more than an amalgamation of various rules (or should I say styles) that already existed. MSV (I am not even considering NI MDs because they rarely, if ever, mixed rules, except perhaps RDB to a certain extent), gave new dimensions to TFM with his fluid integration of Western Music styles into TFM. This is not a phenomenon. To some purists it might even seem to be a bastardization of music. But for music itself (I am not talking about old timeless classics) to survive as a art, it has to continually evolve. In TFM, MSV gave it a fresh breath of life. But with the advent of IR, those very same classical rules were integrated into TFM seamlessly without being morphed beyond recognition (MSVs interpretation of twist and cha-cha really constitued 'light' music :D, not that I am qualified to comment on twist and cha-cha!). I am sure you would have heard "Kannan Vandu Paadugindran" from Rettai Vaal Kuruvi. That is how I found out that you can be true to the origin of a music style and yet be innovative. MSVs use of these styles pale in comparision with IR. The difference is there for all to see ...err...hear. Ethnic music is a different kettle of tea altogether. BH might be at his best when it comes to Assamese folk music. But can he do an "Anjali, Anjali.." (IRs not ARRs :D)? That would be my idea of the best Indian MD. Given the opportunity, IR too can come up with an Assamese folk song. But I am not too sure that BH would be able to do a vice-versa.
  You also said, "Now that I'm no longer so choosy...", I'm sorry Bharath. But in order to differentiate between 'good' and 'best', we must be very choosy. I too enjoy listening to songs like "Vennilave, Vennilave.." (I sing it quite well too :-)))) !), but when it comes to calling someone the best, I employ all my powers of discretion so that I do not, inadvertently, do an injustice. Well, I agree with you about Anand-Milind, however. I just thought a couple of more names might enhance my arguments :D. See if you are not discretionary, it could prove counter-productive to your motive !
  Srinath
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ nc36.pr.mcs.net) on: Thu Jun 11 18:26:15 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth, Srinath, Bharat
  
  Thanks, Machchigala. Really profound arguments. For the first time, I am hearing the name Bupen Hazarika. I would like to search for some of his music and also Hridayanth Mangeshkar's. If either of you folks have some I would like to know more Indian composers. I would be willing to do a swap. As I was telling Ravi and Manoj I am getting some consignments (if you remember Billy Bunter who used to have a long overdue credit with the cake shop by saying his money order is coming any time? I am getting some rare collections, which I would like to share).
  
  Thanks Friends. Great discussion, whatever I would have said a lot is better told in this thread.
  
  
• From: buddy (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Thu Jun 11 22:07:27 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth,
  
  I can't agree with becas u r an ARR's .......
  
  
• From: Rajkumar (@ ppp113-174.bom.vsnl.net.in) on: Fri Jun 12 01:10:14 EDT 1998
  
  Hai,
  
  I am rajkumar.
  
  I am one of the Raja sir fan.
  
  How are you?
  convey my regards to raja sir.
  
  My id is:jmraju@hotmail.com
  
  with love and affection,
  
  Rajkuamr
  
  
  
• From: kitty (@ giasmdb.vsnl.net.in) on: Fri Jun 12 01:58:17 EDT 1998
  
  Lets not make Facts look like Personal opinions,
  We don't need to discuss or justify that the sky is blue. do we ?
  
  
• From: dev mannemela (@ tide11.microsoft.com) on: Fri Jun 12 04:17:06 EDT 1998
  
  
  Hi Nithin,
  
  The most accesible cassettes of Bhupen Hazarika
  and Hridayanath would be Rudaali and Lekin, respectively. Both are must buys! (or must swaps :-))
  
  Also check out the semi classical "Chaaya Jaagi" (sung by Lata and Hridayanth) from "Maya Memsaab".. Beautiful..
  
  dev
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 161.225.48.3) on: Fri Jun 12 10:37:54 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  
  
  This is for my beloved friend Buddy, I dont understand what you put about me again and
  again.
  One thing I like to convey to you I am great fan of Tamil Music, My opinions are totally unbaissed than yours . But we all know for sure you are a fanatic of IR.
  So dont talk if you dont know to talk about music. Start your own web page put a Raja Photo and perform Pujaas - Who cares, But this a open discussion dont allow personal comments.
  Also Music is not owned by Raja. SA Re ga ma pa dha ne is owned by every little tiny musician in the world. I am one of them.
  If Raja does a mistake it is ignored by people like you - if people like AR or anyone does the same you start to boil and take them for a ride by so called comments.
  I have heard more Raja stuff than you. I know play them all - note by note or part by part or measure by measure or Bar by Bar
  When you guys have every right call ARR has a imposter - I have every right to say the same on anybody - including Raja.
  
  You migh have a satisfaction in pulling me down with your childish reasons - I supported AR for a cause.
  This will be last I will talk explaining my side.
  Simply - I will not contribute on these threads anymore.
  
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Bharat (@ dsi.mids.com) on: Fri Jun 12 10:48:04 EDT 1998
  
  Why are the postings getting increasingly personal? This is a discussion forum for arguments and counterarguments about music. Every day, there is a new thread that has someone or the other making a wild assertion, and that gets carried on to the lowest forms of insults.
  
  If there are genuine issues with someone's views, please please explain your stance, as Srinath did so well yesterday. This is not about winning or losing, folks!
  
  Passion is necessary in the appreciation of music, but this is bloody insanity!
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Fri Jun 12 10:59:45 EDT 1998
  
  Bhupen Hazarika won the Dadha Saheb Phalke award a few years back.
  
  There was an article on him in Rediff on the Net a couple of months back.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ socks8d.raleigh.ibm.com) on: Fri Jun 12 12:00:07 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth:
  I took a pot-shot at Rahman yesterday in another discussion. I'm sorry if it seemed to be a personal statement against you. But I really cannot appreciate your defense of ARR. I too am a guitarist and, though not formally trained, have found that IR's compositions far exceed ARR's. In fact, I am not even bothered about ARR copying tunes (I've never caught him at that). But fact remains that his only claim to fame is 'different' music - not necessarily good music. I can only think of a handful of good songs from ARR - 'July Maatham Vanthaal', 'Konjam Nilavu', 'Puthu Vellai Mazhai', 'Vennilave, Vennilave...'. My only contention is that ARR is no comparision to IR. If IR makes one mistake he has about a 1000 things to compensate for them. But ARR doesn't. His ratio of good songs to poor ones is pathetic. And that is why his mistakes are so obvious. I was spurred into becoming anti-ARR only after listening to ridiculous statements from ARR fans claiming that ARR is better than IR. After a long time I found a niche where IR is really appreciated here in TFM page. I don't intend to yield the least quarter :-)))
  Don't bracket ARR and IR together. As a trained musician you should know best of all that IR is a better exponent of music than ARR can ever hope to be. It's been a while since I stopped playing the guitar (about 2 years now). But some of the best moments of my life were spent in front of a scratchy 2-in-1 trying hard to decipher those lovely bass scores (I was a bass guitarist with our Light Music Troupe - Ragadhara) from IR. I remember, for every ARR song played on stage, I used to listen to the first 4 bars and used to mark |%| for the rest of the page :-))). For example - Humma and Oorvasi. In fact, there have been occassions where I have been forced to improvise in order to prevent the song from sounding empty. On the other hand, I have received a lot praise from lay-men (inspite of being a bass guitarist, who is more felt than heard :D), whenever I have played for songs like Kanna Vandu Paadugindran, Anjali Anjali (IRs), Raaja Raaja Chozhan, Oororama Aaththupakkam ThennanthOpu etc. I have often banged my head in frustration listening to people appreciate Kaathalikkum Pennin Kaigal :( for its bass score. ARR cannot afford to make a mistake when he is only producing mediocre work. FYI, I was trained as a classical violinist for 6 years (my poor violin master, avar panna paavam :-)). And though I write most of my music in Carnatic notation I also use a bit of western notation, especially when the bass follows the rythmn guitar. So if (and that's a BIG IF :D) I am mistaken, please enlighten me as to where and how ARR is a better musician than IR. I'll do my best to understand. Am I biased ? Well, if a desire for the best is called 'bias', then yes, I am biased.
  There are other facets to MDn that I would like to discuss. One of them is speed of production. But this posting might get too long for that. If someone is interested, I am willing to argue why not only speed of composition, but also the number of songs contribute to IR's greatness.
  
  Bharat:
  Thanks ! It feels good to be appreciated :D
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 161.225.48.3) on: Fri Jun 12 12:22:22 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Bharat,
  
  Yes sir, I will add - the oh butterfly 2nd bgm,
  very very hard to play, often I step record on the sequencer. Also the Guruyaur appa opening piano and "Then madurai vaigai nathi" opening piece. I accept the fact Raja is the best in those kind of arrangements. Bass parts like iravu nilavu in Anjali - - Ninukori varanam - bass parts from keyboards. - Remarkable..
  
  Ar has also some good slaps done in Samba Samba song - also the (bhilahari) rock guitar bit.. in the first bgm - There are more - like in songs he uses a sound called Hollow Recorder which often comes behind the whole song - fills the space like kennyG - . Have you tried playing the guitar pieces in July madam vandal . This was played by my friend prasana- very hard flamingo stuff
  (you see I am not biased)
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ socks8d.raleigh.ibm.com) on: Fri Jun 12 12:42:28 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth:
  I was not asking for good examples. I already agree that ARR is good. I only want to know where he has exceeded IR's proficiency. 'Hollow Recorder', did you say ? Ironically named, isn't it ? I also believe in maintaining some kind of fidelity to music. Gimmicks should not be your selling point (I mean ARR's, I would never attack you personally :-)). Guitar ? Every guitarist (except Heavy Metal freaks) whom I've ever met claims that he picked up the guitar after listening to Ilaya Nila. FYI, I still can't play that piece. July Maatham is good. I don't intend to take away that credit from ARR. But I refuse to give him credit where it is not due. And IMHO it is perhaps better that you stop mentioning about Anupama being your cousin Prasanna being your friend. These are the kind of statements that could attract personal attacks from nuts. I am only requesting you to avoid using them in the context of TFM DF :-)))
  Please tell me exactly in which area of music ARR has bettered IR. You have already agreed that IR is better when it comes to grand arrangements and bass parts - couple of more examples would be Nalam Vaazha (Orchestration), Enna Saththam Inda Neram (guitar again) and Pon Maane Theduthe (Bass). Another example of bad bass score from ARR - Udit Narayan duet from Muthu (Can't remember the name).
  
  

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