Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Juxtaposing Ilayaraja

Topic started by Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on Mon Sep 29 02:28:41 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

This is an attempt to have your views on the diversity of IRs compositions. If we can discuss, in sets of two, contrasting creations of IR, and share with others what appeals to us about those particular tunes, and why we think they are good examples of his melodic flexibility.

The stress should be Separate but Brilliant.

Two sets, and your views.
It will help us all to rediscovers these songs again, and look at them from your "expert" point of view! :-)

---

Responses:

• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Mon Sep 29 02:35:10 EDT 2003
  
  To start off, then:
  This pertains exclusively to the radio project:
  You have to provide me with the contrasting MP3 that you have chosen for discussion here. I'll take points from your posts, and edit it to three / four lines per song. I might even throw in my own two bits, here and there.
  
  But the songs have to have a certain "uniqueness" and should not be all kattavandi or pon meni (there's a contrast!!). Refinement - in all senses would be nice, if not preferable.
  
  If you have another thought, or a better idea, please do share it with me.
  
  There, I've done my bit - for now :-)
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ 203.200.198.9) on: Mon Sep 29 03:48:11 EDT 2003
  
  Situational composition:
  
  There are lot of songs which have a visual point counter point - A lead story counterpointed with a sub-plot. Some examples to illustrate
  
  1. Yaar veettu roja - Idhaya koyil (Mohan singing in a studio unaware of Ambika's arrival and Ambika - the village girl - caught unaware in the city)
  
  2. Paadava Un paadalai - Naan paadum paadal (Ambika singing in a studio and Mohan rushing in his car to see his wife's first recording)
  
  3. Aattama therottama - Captain Prabhakaran. Ramya krishnan entertaining the villains with a dance, while Vijaykanth and team try to sneak into villain territory
  
  4. Pon maaney - Oru kaidhiyin dairy. Kamal has to manage both his responsibilities as an officer and as a lover-boy to Revathi.
  
  5. Vanitha Mani - Vikram. Kamal and Ambika enjoying a duet while Dharma (later to be called Vikram Dharma) is trying to kill Kamal.
  
  Many many more such songs ...
  
  In all these songs, there is a predominant mood of the song which is counterpointed by the mood of the sub-plot. While the plot and the sub-plot are spatially disjointed in the first 4 songs i.e, the plot and the sub-plot unfold in different places; for the Vikram song the plot and the subplot take place in the same space.
  
  So while Ilaiyaraja uses musically different themes (instruments) to provide a jarringly different counterpoint in the first 4 songs, he does something different for Vanithamani. He uses the same instrument well within the same mood for Vanithamani, while still achieving the needs of the plot / sub-plot requirements. In the first interlude you can listen two violent pulses of strings to signify the missed attempts of Dharma's Rifle shots. Listen to the fleeting presence of a passing train (chuk-chuk) in the first charanam. The second interlude also ends with a lovely foreboding of the impending disaster.
  
  Wow what a pleasure! In my younger days the vulgar lyrics was a big-turn off. So appreciating this song had to wait until I started appreciating the Maestro's style of music after growing up.
  
  This song gives me the goosebumps everytime I see or hear it.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Mon Sep 29 10:21:01 EDT 2003
  
  Raghu -
  
  That was an interesting list, and also quite informative.
  I hope that posters participate here, discussing songs in "contrasting" pairs, and give me some hightlights on what to look for, pay attention to, brief notes on brilliance. eg. (Songs beginning with the same word, but presenting a different mood and sensation: Manjal Araikkum Bodhu / Manjal Veiyil Malaiitta Poovae...or Ponnoviyam / Ponnula Ponnula Pannunna Mookkuththi - you get my drift?)
  
  Please don't mention or post your MP3s here for the show. Keep the choice to yourself, and I will email you (if you provide your email id here) and request you to send me the chosen song(s).
  By all means, discuss all the contrasting songs you want (in sets).
  
  Situational songs are great narrative devices. But when one presents a compilation on this topic, there is a lot of voice/explaining to do over air (for those who know nothing of tamizh, or tamizh films) and that can take up a lot of the 120 minutes I have. I would like to keep the commentary brief, pertinent, and just "highlights". 2 minutes commentary per song (or less).
  
  Please share your thoughts with us, over the next few days. Thanks.
  
  
• From: raghu (@ 203.200.198.9) on: Tue Sep 30 00:06:31 EDT 2003
  
  My interest in most of our Maestro's song is strongly tied to his ability to build intricate multiple layers in a song. This analysis is an attempt to share the same joy.
  
  I've observed 3 styles of compositions in multiple layers of music (polyphony / point counterpoint). For clarity let me use point-counterpoint from here onwards. Point refers to the lead melody (most often the singer's voice) and counterpoint refers to the second layer of music that embellishes the lead melody (most often an instrument like flute or violin / strings).
  
  Style 1. A tune is cut into 2 peices, joined seamlessly and given to the point and counterpointing voices. Let me illustrate - Assume the tune is ABCDEF, the tune is cut into 2 pieces say ABCD and EF. They are joined seamlessly by making voice1 sing ABCDE and voice 2 sing EF.
  
  Example
  
  Kaalai nerap poonguyil - Amman kovil kizhakkaaley. Listen to the first 2 lines.
  
  Kaalai nerap poonguyil,
  kavidhai paada thoondudho (SPB's voice stands unresolved while the flute gives the tune its resolution). Try singing this loud and you'll feel incomplete, because it is the flute piece which will make the 2 lines complete.
  
  Style 2. The lead voice is introduced to play a melody, a second more colorful (richer melody) voice is introduced subsequently along with the leading voice. They both play together for a few bars and then the second voice takes over.
  
  Example
  
  Paadavandhadhor gaanam - Ilamai kaalangal. Listen to the first interlude.
  
  Maan kanden Maan kanden - Raajarishi. Listen to the first interlude. I always get the feeling Ilaiyaraaja hoodwinked the censor board by making the Strings (playing both point and the counterpoint) to intertwine passionately. Something that Sivaji and Lakshmi cannot do onscreen.
  
  Sundari neeyum - Michael Madana Kaamaraajan - Listen to the first interlude. This is a lovely 3 part counterpoint (Part 1 - guitar, Part 2 - Strings, Part 3 - chorus)
  
  Style 3 - In this style the point and the counterpoint seem to co-exit together for a big part of the song often alternating their roles.
  
  Example
  
  Poo maalaiyey - Pagal nilavu.
  En kanmani - Chittukuruvi
  Metti oli kaatrodu - Metti. The opening humming
  
  On rare occasions, our maestro offers us a glimpse into his composing style by choosing to use human voices for both the parts of the counterpoint.Here our maestro's replaces his favourite strings with human voices.
  
  Example
  
  Yeriyiley, elandhai maram - Karaiyellaam shenbagappoo.
  
  Ponnoviyam, kandenamma engengum - Kazhugu
  
  Thaam tha dheem - Pagalil oru nilavu
  
  One small digression to AR Rahman. Raasaathi en-usuru - Thiruda Thiruda also belongs to style 3.
  
  Raghu
  
  Disclaimer : I could have made many mistakes in my interpretation of point-counterpoint so I would be glad to admit them if somebody points them out to me.
  
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Tue Sep 30 10:23:41 EDT 2003
  
  raghu -
  
  Once again, I found a few highlights in your post that I had completely missed (even on repeated hearings of the songs.) I must make it a point to listen more intently to the interludes to notice how they stitch the song into embroidered patterns. thanks for sharing.
  
  Counterpoint / Contrapuntal...Can you please explicate this difference to those of us who have little knowledge that can be dangerous...(but not harmful :-))?
  
  Also - do you have MP3 files for these songs you have chosen as examples? Please let me know.
  I look forward to your next post.
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Tue Sep 30 10:29:50 EDT 2003
  
  Raghu -
  
  What about "Rasavae Unna Naan Enniththaan" from TKR? Is the "dham dhadham dham dhadham" chorus a counterpoint on which the melody is layered? Particularly, the "aavaaram poovu adhukkoru novu..."? This thought just came to me? Am I on the right track (sic)?
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Tue Sep 30 12:59:58 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz
  I have decent quality MP3's of all the songs barring one (Eriyile) in Raghu's 2nd list. Can put them in the briefcase if you want. Let me know...
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Tue Sep 30 13:17:57 EDT 2003
  
  suresh -
  
  Please do. And send me the link to the bc at the email addy above.
  
  Another thought for a different compliation that still maintains the "contrast" aspect, but also offers varied shades and hues:
  
  Seasons with Ilayaraja (this is partly inspired by isai_nanban's suggestion of "cool clime" songs.) If we can come up with differing sets of 4 (Vasantham, Kodai, Ilaiudhir, Kulir - sariya??)
  That would give me 16. Opening and Closing song - I decide :-)
  
  Thennaga Vivaldi? :-)
  
  isai-nanban, Raj, Raagam and others...share your views on this idea. suggest better ones if you can.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 12.210.95.2) on: Tue Sep 30 14:59:33 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz,
  Why don't you write to TFM admin to make this a permanent topics thread? This kind of thread is quite useful, but contributions might not pour in everyday and many IR fans don't want this thread to go into the archives.
  
  bb,
  If you read my request please consider it.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.87.30.219) on: Tue Sep 30 15:30:57 EDT 2003
  
  Jag -
  
  I have compiled many anthologies of IRs music for my radio programme for over 12 years. The more I listen to IRs 70s/80s film tracks, the more I am inspired to compile "thematic" segments. Over the years, I've presented at least 40 odd shows, exclusively on IR.
  I will be happy to share my segments with you (but most of the songs I have are on tape, so I will not be able help you with audiofiles.) If this is of interest to you, I'll be happy to email you the list of compilations over the years.
  (as an aside, tamil listeners who call the studio always wonder why they CAN'T find such compilations on commercially available CDs!!I can only suggest they tape the show when it broadcast!)
  
  Thank you for your interest.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.88.155.34) on: Tue Sep 30 16:08:37 EDT 2003
  
  Naaz
  
  I have uploaded most songs in that list into the briefcase, check your mail.
  
  For want of space, I'll have to wait until you download these, then delete them to add the rest.
  
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments