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IR-ARR usage of instruments

Topic started by cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on Sat Apr 15 02:38:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

get ready for another round, guys (timepass panna venaam:-))]. no IR or ARR bashing, please, muthallaye sollitten. let's just discuss how each of them has used various instruments. for instance, IR's use of acoustic guitar is unparalleled, while ARR rarely uses it. similarly, IR `pales' before ARR when it comes to electric guitar or keyboards (strictly IMHO, everyone's welcome to disagree). start shooting.

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Responses:

• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Sat Apr 15 02:40:16 EDT 2000
  
  guys, one more thing. let's not talk numbers or quantity here (like raja used flute in 100 films, so he must be better than ARR). sheer quality should matter. we can start with traditional instruments such as violin, flute, guitar, tabla, mridangam, etc
  
  
• From: csg (@ 202.144.10.93) on: Sat Apr 15 08:35:04 EDT 2000
  
  i agree with you cramp lets talk only usage of instruments, more than that the usage in each and every song of Ir matters a lot, because if you take for example classical songs raja only uses veenai,mrudangam,sitar and flute but if you take arr for example he mixes electronic in that for eg;mettu potu in duet.
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ netcache31.mot.com) on: Sat Apr 15 10:12:39 EDT 2000
  
  csg,
  he's NOT 'cramp' :-))
  
  >>if you take for example classical songs raja only uses veenai,mrudangam,sitar and flute but if you take arr for
  example he mixes electronic in that for eg;mettu potu in duet.<<
  
  On seeing this stmt, the song that comes to my mind immediately is "kamalam pAdha kamalam" -mOgamuL (haven't u noticed the guitar piece in the second interlude ??? )
  
  How about endhan nenjil neengAdha (kalaigjnan )????
  
  more later...
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.152) on: Mon Apr 17 01:17:33 EDT 2000
  
  cram!
  IR `pales' in electric guitar? NO WAY! Ask ARR to create a magic like `iLaya nilA' and you'll know what it is to play electric guitar! There are another 100 great examples of scintillating electric guitar usage by IR that I can quote! Synth? May be, but not the e-guitar!
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Mon Apr 17 05:07:52 EDT 2000
  
  hey, i think i used the wrong word. i meant the guitar that ARR used in the Mustafa prelude. i was under the impression that the ilaya nila guitar was acoustic (u know, the box guitar).
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Mon Apr 17 05:08:57 EDT 2000
  
  thanks, Shankar:-)))
  
  
• From: hari (@ 202.141.26.182) on: Mon Apr 17 10:38:56 EDT 2000
  
  cram,
  
  ilaiya nilaa leads ( the famous interlude leads played by raaja himself) are indeed on the acoustic guitar, however the rhythm guitaring (the phaser sound of the chords - notice it in pallavi) are on the e-guitar.
  
  listen to Rumbumbum - proper rock and roll with the ""electric"" guitaring (pun intended:-))
  
  keyboard usage - the sounds in Agni Natchaththiram are too good - listen to Rojappoo paadivandhadhu (interludes) for instance.
  
  And waht abt the wind section? i guess raaja rules easily - April mayile, Rumbumbum, - trumpet usage.
  
  flute - is there an argument?!!!
  
  solo violin - kaalakaalamaaga from punnagai mannan
  
  strings - too many to mention - clearly raaja is a master - sangeetha megam, kaadhalin dheebam onru.
  
  acoustic drumming - megam kottattum, sangeetha megam, vaan megam, kanmani anbodu (cute)
  
  hari
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Mon Apr 17 11:58:53 EDT 2000
  
  hari,
  so where does ARR shine? i think he excels in keyboard and sax (can't recollect raja's sax usage)
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Mon Apr 17 12:46:23 EDT 2000
  
  cram,
  
  pay attention to all the songs of raja. you would find more sax in his songs, than you could count. to start with, please listen to "iniya malargaL malarum inba mennum thOttam" of pUnthOttam.
  
  
• From: hari (@ wwwproxy.iitm.ac.in) on: Mon Apr 17 13:28:42 EDT 2000
  
  IMHO,
  
  I feel that the flow of melody from a certain instrument (the actual note sequence / chord progression) , and how that precisely affects the mood of the song, is the real index of how the MD has "used" the instrument.
  
  ARR mixes tracks quite creatively, but lot of the times, they seem pretty artificial to me- i mean, i feel he does that just to add "depth" to the sound, but there is no mood created by that instrument.
  
  eg- some vaguish kind of mute guitar sound in Snehidhane (or is it some other song from AP - in pallavi)-
  as compared to IR's mute guitar in the first line of pallavi in Rojaappoo of AN. ( goes like - Ro-jaa-ppoo paadivandhadhu - 4 bars of mute guitar)
  
  hari
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Mon Apr 17 15:25:59 EDT 2000
  
  Re: strings - hari you are right !! No equal.
  I was watching 'kai kodukkum kai' yesterday. Rajini is fighting some thugs while his blind wife is being violated by the villain back home - the BGM is just violins - and can you imagine a sad melody for fight !! A polyphonic music with tension in the foreground for the fight and a sad contrapuntal melody in the background !! Compare this with vidyasagar in 'nandini' playing old tamil/hindi songs for BGM. We stopped watching this movie half-way thru to switch to the rajini starrer. Another interesting BGM - when the villain drinks 'toddy' the music reminds you of a snake drinking milk. Though it was tacky I guess it was meant for the less initiated to get the hint !!
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9) on: Mon Apr 17 17:20:10 EDT 2000
  
  cram:
  
  Sax is used in mandram vandha thendralukku. This is one song, I am sure, everybody is bound to know, including the interludes, by heart.
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ tesla.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Mon Apr 17 18:14:15 EDT 2000
  
  I liked the sax piece in 'oho kick yerudhe'. It sounded interesting with the latin beat.
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ host2.cvs.aa.net) on: Mon Apr 17 18:20:22 EDT 2000
  
  mandram vandha thendralukku, MS, that is trumpet.
  The first bgm in anjali anjali (movie:Anjali)
  is Sax tone,
  
  
• From: Murali Rangan (@ apollo.pointbase.com) on: Mon Apr 17 19:31:31 EDT 2000
  
  How about the mesmerising sax in the second interlude of 'Kannan Vandhu Padugindran' from Rettai Vaal Kuruvi? I guess it has so many entities that can be talked about! It is an amazing song! I listen it often in my car CD player.
  
  - Murali
  
  
• From: Diwakar (@ 206.175.177.136) on: Mon Apr 17 19:38:51 EDT 2000
  
  What about pAttu thalaivan pAdinAl from Idhaya Koyil? Is that a sax?
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Thu Apr 20 11:35:45 EDT 2000
  
  enna saththam intha neram from punnagai mannan (what a song!!!) has this beautiful piece in the first interlude. is that trumpet or sax?
  
  
• From: rjay (@ brkfw0005.navistar.com) on: Thu Apr 20 13:36:31 EDT 2000
  
  An innovation in instrument
  in Smaiyaee first
  interlude. It starts like a female voice
  and morphs into a synth(I suspect an
  analog synth) and into a tenor sax
  piece.
  The similarity between the three instrumental
  tones is amazingly matched as a teaser!
  (Similar to Janaki's voice versus Nadhaswaram
  in Singara velanae)
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Thu Apr 20 16:10:52 EDT 2000
  
  Actually the voice and the sax are so well blended together it becomes difficult to differentiate which is playing / singing.
  
  
• From: Krishna (@ mailserver01.sb.com) on: Thu Apr 20 17:51:39 EDT 2000
  
  Also listen the use of Sax in "Solla Solla Enna Inimai" from a Kamal starrer by IR..Just great..IR also used a lot of Sax in old songs.. in Kakki Chattai, Annai Oru Alayam....
  
  On use of synthezizers, "Nizhalgal" songs are amazing.
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ ttdslppp247.sttl.uswest.net) on: Thu Apr 20 22:10:51 EDT 2000
  
  ravi,
  it is basically using a sax envelope over a vocals , he might have sampled them both and mixed them as a new tone and played it over a range of notes of keyboard...
  interesting piece of sound....
  
  trivia:
  raja using mirudangam....in oh oh megam vandadhoo (mouna ragam), has anyone noted it.
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Fri Apr 21 06:56:56 EDT 2000
  
  talking of the blending of instrument and voice, the prelude to kaadhal rojave from roja also sounds deceptively like a shehnai.
  
  
• From: csg (@ 202.144.10.93) on: Fri Apr 21 07:17:09 EDT 2000
  
  to tell ilayaraja's brilliance listen to the song in "vanna vann pookkal" sung by KJY you can listen to flute and percussion,i.e. 10% flute and 90% percussion.I am sure that ARR cannot give us such a song because the percussions used by IR blends with the song's raga suddha dhanyasi
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ ns1.poloralphlauren.com) on: Fri Apr 21 11:26:13 EDT 2000
  
  Cram,
  IR pales before ARR when it comes to Electric Guitar and Keyboard???. Thats absolutely false.
  IR is the MD who has used every instrument to its true potential. He does not use an instrument just for the heck of it. For e.g, for his best use of electric guitar listen to the first interlude of Naan Thedum Sevandhipoo idhu, Prelude of En Enneya pon nillave, 2nd interlude of Ninukori Varnam and many more.
  
  Coming to modern keyboard, it's not that he does not know to use it or anything like that. He feels its a crapy instrument for his compositions. But off late he has used it and kind of showed his excellence on it too, for e.g., the best of his keyboard music is in Ennai Thalata Varuvaallo.
  
  He has also used drums with a balanced approach unlike the modern MDs who think drums is a must for every song.
  
  Any opinions?
  
  
• From: Ganesh (@ 134.113.200.28) on: Fri Apr 21 13:43:03 EDT 2000
  
  I am amazed to see fans with so much knowledge in music hats off to u guys. Whatever you guys have said so far is very true. But IR has a kind of hatred towards Synth and Digital music, being a very ardent follower of IR just like you guys you would have noticed starting from 90s IR music stand. just went down to bad but offlate like Kannukkul Nilavu he shows he still got the fire in him but I think he is too late because he is totally Isolated by the filmmakers and his exfriends look at the crap copy music deva and others making it and getting title 'ISAI PERARASU' and lots of movies whereas IR doesnt have any breaks,sometime good song go waste because of poor direction and actors like 'Meetadha Veenai' from Poonthotam beautiful peice in the recent past fusion kind of music but got no attention,he seems to have bad luck and time following all over
  but that doesnt mean AR is inferior,AR gave new approach to Sound and Quality when IR music was getting sterotype formula music.
  Duet is the best of AR so far according to me very experimental and nice use of SAX with scintilating rthym programming (90% of his music is Synth based good on quality bad for musicians)in classical and Jazz kind of what do u think ?
  
  
• From: rjay (@ brkfw0005.navistar.com) on: Mon Apr 24 12:22:43 EDT 2000
  
  Sax envelope on human voice, that might be
  the right mechanism, Thanks Srikanth.
  
  I was thinking that he had two tracks one
  with female voice and other with a sax
  and microswitched all the way. I hear some
  Pop songs on FM last month do that very effectively.
  The voice suddenly gets a filtery sound,
  it is nice to hear that. Like they have
  selected a section and filtered the
  formants out there!
  
  
  

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