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Are IR's songs mini-symphonies ?

Topic started by cosmician (@ 194.170.1.66) on Mon Apr 23 08:05:12 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

It has been quite sometime since I'd listened to IR songs...apart from Friends and Bharathy and a few others...I'd even stopped listening to IR's older nos...thus when I listened to a few of his older numbers chosen at random...the thng that struck me was the perfect structure and how differenet instruments blended into the mould of the theme or tune that he had set...and hence my query...does IR approach each song of his as a mini-symphony ? I think he does...but more music literate folks will have an accurate analysis....

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Responses:

• From: Shankar (@ 64.104.128.15) on: Mon Apr 23 09:25:25 EDT 2001
  
  I'm not sure if he does that as a mini-symphony, but
  what i have noticed is that the interludes go out of the song and we are brought back into the song (typiclly a single guitar/jal-tarang/violin doing the job of
  ending the digression)
  
  Take for instance Roja onru muththam kEtkum nEram from kombEri mookkan -the second interlude takes off with a flute and at the end of the piece u wud thing the second stanza is gonna start only to find that a bunch of violins take control and we get back to the song with a single violin.
  Another such instance is poovE sem poovE from solla thudikkudhu manasu.
  
  In the recent times(!), i found a similar instance in
  devathai (first stanza of nAL thOrum endhan kaNNil)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon Apr 23 11:40:10 EDT 2001
  
  cosmician..what happened to you ? :) :) If you define polyphonic music as mini-symphony then the answer to your question is surely yes. I have seen IR write contrapuntal music even for just ordinary songs/dance numbers. He is just not happy with a single instrument playing at any point of time (ofcourse, along with percussion). But I am not sure whether many of his audience appreciated this. I attribute this to the lack of exposure to WCM among our people. Listeners who enjoy this aspect of IRs music will find the current POP songs not satisfying at all. Melody is another of his forte but because of the system of rAgams (and widespread knowledge of it) this is not a USP (unique selling proposition).
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Mon Apr 23 12:11:52 EDT 2001
  
  
  devathai (first stanza of nAL thOrum endhan kaNNil)
  
  I know IR was the MD of that film, but did he do the BGM?. I watched it two weeks ago in DD (I think). I couldn't hear most of the dialogs and the BGMs took over. Many characters in the film spoke the dialogs as if they were inside the well.
  
  I have seen Avadaram of Nasser and I own a complete cassette with all its songs. It is one such film of IR in 90's in which all the songs were class. Avadaram was a flop, but its exposed nasser as a good thinking and different director.
  I don't know what happened to him in Devathai. And, also in the bgm IRs usual violin and flutes were missing. So, I think his son (KR probably..) had done the BGM.
  But for one song, nothing much could be said about other songs.
  
  
• From: Vijay Venkatram J (@ 202.54.33.218) on: Mon Apr 23 12:35:18 EDT 2001
  
  Hai all,
  Shankar - I have felt the same way you feel many times - The Taking off of a song with Tabla rhythm in the pallavi into fantastically rolling drums in the interlude only to merge with strings and bass guitar into the same or another tabla rhythm still not altering the flow or mood of the song and also not spoiling the situation.
  
  Some Examples:
  --------------
  1) Paattu Thalaivan - Idhaya Koil
  2) Naan Thedum Sevvandhi - Dharma Pathini
  3) Yedho Ninaivugal - Agal Vilakku
  4) Yaar Veettil Roja - Idhaya Koil
  5) Kannan Oru - Badhrakali
  The magic is present in these songs because He composes them as a whole and when they originate in His mind, they are in full form. Thats why though the song takes various routes it finally reaches the detination hale and hearty! In contrast, other MD's compose pallavi separately and saranam separately. Then they want to do some filling work between the two and that becomes the interlude. This makes the difference. I personally feel that I can classify a new MD by hearing his first album into either a Spontaneous Composer or a Music Constructor (Because he makes concrete from mixing different materials,Just A Joke!). This is because I have been a chronic listener of Raaja.
  Yes, another point is that IR never ignores any situation. He gives equal weightage in composition even to a comedy song though it may be picturized for Goundamani-Senthil (Ooru Vittu - Karakaattakkaaran). Others do well only in heavy situations and in such trivial situations,they use simple Gana like material.
  Kiru - What u say is true! One Carnatic Musician friend of mine remarked:
  
  "Even the Greatest Raaja Fan can relish only 40% of Him"
  
  I am sure no true Raaja fan will object this. So, Cosmician, I strongly support u -
  
  "Interludes & BGM's of Maestro Dr.Ilaiyaraaja are Mini Symphonies"!
  
  Maestro's Fans Come To:
  -----------------------
  http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/maestroilaiyaraajafansclub
  
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Tue Apr 24 01:04:18 EDT 2001
  
  Kiru...what happened to me ? Well I've grown up listenting to IR songs...so he'll always be the Father of my Musical side...ARR came in on my transtion from a teen-ager to manhood and into a world of media-boom and exposure...so he's always a symbol of the times...when I started listening to pop-music in 1985...I loved the synth sounds of Depeche Mode and Pet Shop Boys and wanted to hear touches of it in IR's music too....he did it in certain instances but ARR was more I think gave me an Indianised version of what I liked hearing from Western pop...but IR will always be the pioneer...as I always hold that without IR's pathbreaking work, TFM wouldn't be where it is today...
  
  
• From: prakash (@ 172.149.13.123) on: Tue Apr 24 16:09:38 EDT 2001
  
  http://www.newtfmpage.com/forum/tech.html
  go thru the entire thread-there are lot of postings which shed a lot of interesting views on IR's mettle in WCM-you will lot of new ideas and answers for some of your doubts as well.
  
  
• From: UVII (@ 63.225.121.230) on: Tue Apr 24 19:51:02 EDT 2001
  
  1. I know IR was the MD of that film, but did he do the BGM?.
  
  2. I did not know that IR was MD for Solla thudikuthu Manasu
  
  I am not suprised on seeing CF's questions. He can ONLY ask these type of questions.
  
  I couldn't hear most of the dialogs and the BGMs took over. Many characters in the film spoke the dialogs as if they were inside the well.
  
  
  I saw Dhevadhai in Devi Paradise, the film is in DTS and I did not have problems hearing the dailogues. I think CF was inside a well and heard/saw(??) the film running outside the well. :-))) NOM.
  
  
• From: S T S (@ 65.3.195.189) on: Tue Apr 24 23:13:35 EDT 2001
  
  CF,
  
  Devathai has the following beautiful songs and they are all excellent. Probably you have not listened to them. Which one you say is good?
  
  Deepangal Pesum
  Naal Thorum
  Oru Naal
  
  If you want to decide the quality of BGM with DD, it is upto you. BGM be better enjoyed in theares IMO.
  
  
• From: S T S (@ 65.3.195.189) on: Tue Apr 24 23:26:06 EDT 2001
  
  Sample 2 from our friend CF,
  
  http://www.newtfmpage.com/forum/4154.13.30.08.html
  
  From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Fri Apr 20 13:49:34 EDT 2001
  
  Which means, again a commercially flop picture from Kamal. Isn't it?
  Last few commercial flops of Kamal( as hero) + IR (also family)
  
  Hey Ram
  Mahanadi
  I don't remember many now?
  
  
  Dragging IR's family too! This are your samples. I find many more. This is to mention you that everyone is equally thrashed. Happy?
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.5.192) on: Wed Apr 25 01:17:45 EDT 2001
  
  I remember reading great reviews for dEvadhai BGM. A question on that being special appeared in Vikatan in an interview with IR (the interview in which he first told the appaLam-ooRugAi stuff). I think IR replied complimenting Nazar for spending that money on DTS which helped the BGM to be grand.
  
  So your copy of video has to be bad, CF:-)
  
  
• From: :-) (@ 64.104.128.15) on: Wed Apr 25 11:38:20 EDT 2001
  
  >>
  But for one song, nothing much could be said about other songs.
  <<
  
  soopper comedian pA nee :-)
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Wed Apr 25 12:09:31 EDT 2001
  
  STS:
  Devadai had one of the bad BGM as far as killing the dialogs are concerned. I saw it in TV. There is no problem with my TV set. Its working well.
  Its especially the last sceen where, there is a fight between between vivith and nasser and dialogs in between. If you could rewrite the dialogs here then I shall be greatful to you as I could not follow the dialogs as BGM took over. At least now I will be clear as what the characters spoke.
  I don't have any doubt about IR's credentials in BGM. There is no body in IFM who is better than IR in BGM. Not even ARR. But, IR had also given many films where BGM were mediocre to very mediocre. Devathai is one such film IMHO.
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 12.47.56.254) on: Wed Apr 25 13:04:02 EDT 2001
  
  CF, by IFM did u mean Indian or International :-) just kidding.......
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Wed Apr 25 13:16:54 EDT 2001
  
  IFM is Indian film music. I am not an IR fanatic and also I don't know much about international film music. Neither do I know much about Indian film music. Just based on my observation on bgms on hindi, south, bengali films, I feel that IR had done pretty well in bgm.
  
  I have one more thing about IR's bgm that I don't like. But not here. I don't want to get into trouble now.
  
  
• From: UVII (@ 63.224.65.186) on: Wed Apr 25 13:25:12 EDT 2001
  
  I have one more thing about IR's bgm that I don't like. But not here. I don't want to get into trouble now.
  
  No one is going to take your statements seriously after you got exposed :-))) by saying the foll stmts...
  
  
  1. I know IR was the MD of that film, but did he do the BGM?.
  
  2. I did not know that IR was MD for Solla thudikuthu Manasu
  
  
  
  So go ahead and tell it CF.
  
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Wed Apr 25 13:33:25 EDT 2001
  
  UVII:
  I just want to know , am I participating in any quiz programme or are you a quiz master.
  Solla thudikuthu Manasu - it was a mistake and I accepted it. It was just a matter of curiosity and I was not so curious about that song and I explained why ,long before.
  
  Regarding devathai, I knew IR was its MD. But its BGM was not that good. There have been films of IR in which his son KR had done bgm. I think one rajini's film falls in that category. I just expressed my doubt. If you are just fair enough then you will also accept that devathai's BGM was a mediocre one.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: sats (@ 139.177.224.100) on: Wed Apr 25 14:14:21 EDT 2001
  
  CF
  
  Unmaiya sollanumana the only best thing in the devadhai movie was the BGM , Ore mattera thirumba thirumba sonna adhu unmai ayidadhu nanba
  
  

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