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Raga of song please

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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List | Indian Classical Music Forum

Hindi Raaga of Songs Thread

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: sandhya (@ 24.190.105.223) on: Fri Aug 24 15:30:48 EDT 2001
  
  
  great job by you IRfan
  i doubt that mahaganpathim is naatai & sundari neeum sundaran nyanum is neelambari.. but not sure
  
  
• From: IR fan (@ ) on: Sat Aug 25 03:30:18 EDT 2001
  
  Thank you MS and SANDHYA....yes, Sandhya mahaganapathim is naatai....can you put in a bit more time in validating the above listed songs?...i would be really greatful if more fans like you two with carnatic background helped me in deleting those in the list that are wrong...MS, thanks for pointing that "nilave mugam kaatu" is sindhu Bhairavi. Sandhya, can you confirm about Nilambari stuff? I doubt it...expecting more responses, and thanking you two once again...
  IR fan
  
  
• From: preethi (@ 203.116.61.132) on: Sat Aug 25 10:49:25 EDT 2001
  
  I want to know something about this song
  (ragam and the song name)
  
  Andhmandharai (where unnikrishnan sings
  ends with something like vanajakshi)
  and its a theme tune
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Sat Aug 25 16:51:20 EDT 2001
  
  haris:
  
  Sorry I do not have a link for AC's song.
  
  -----------------------------------------------
  
  There are many songs in IR fan's list I have not heard of and hence cannot comment on the raga of the same. I am just trying to point out a few songs which I knew pretty well and hence putting my 2 cents worth on them:
  
  (1) Abheri - Chinnanjiru Vayathil - Meendum Kokila
  
  kaadhal neruppinile enadhu kaNgaLai vitru vittEn - This line touches the anya swara ni3. One good counter example for this song is "veeNa poove" in mallu by MSV/KJY which is predominantly in aabheri but touches ni3 for beautification.
  
  (2) mazaikkoru devane - Amruthavarshini
  
  One of the numbers which is unsingable for any other person. KJY delivers it in an inimitable fashion
  
  (3) Andholika - Raman Aandaalum Ravanan Aandalum - Mullum Malarum
  
  I am really surprised. The popular krithi "raaga sudhaarasa" is in this raga and I find it difficult to digest that such a powerful raga can be used to create a folk number.
  
  IR may wish to comment on the same.
  
  (4) Bhavapriya - Kandupudichen Kandupudichen - Guru Sishyan
  
  I always thought this song to be in shubapanthu varaaLi. What raga is bhavapriya ?
  
  (5) Chakravaagam - another good example is nee padhi naan paadhi kaNNE
  
  (6) Chandrakouns - Isayarasi - Thai Mookaambigai
  
  Probably the most complicated classical composition of IR till date. I have read somehwere that it is in raga "sallaapam". Can somebody explain ?
  
  (7) Chandrakouns - Karayaadha manamum undo - Varusham 16
  
  If chandrakouns is just the ni3 counterpart of hindhoLam, this song and isai arasi are definitely NOT in chandrakouns. The very first line shows ga3 (manamum) which cannot be chandrakouns.
  
  but, as far as I can understand this song, it is in the same raga of isai arasi though the second sharaNam's first line gives a beautiful scale change. In fact second sharaNam is a complex admixture of swaras. I find it very difficult to follow the second sharaNam.
  
  IR - please comment on this song. Listen specially the line "dhinam Ezai paadum paadal kEttu" and the second sharaNam
  
  http://www.dhool.com/cgi-bin/display.pl?order=title&query=title+like+'karai%'&start=0&offset=40&prevq=title+like+'karai%'
  
  (8) Charukesi - Chinnathayaval Thantha - Thalapathi
  
  Nope. the raga seems to be kaapi and not chaarukesi.
  
  (9) Dharmavathi - Anba Sumanthu - Ponnumani
  
  To me pallavi sounds like shivaranjani with a sligh anya swara m2. I dont remember the sharaNam though
  
  (10) Dharmaavathi - konji konji
  
  idhu bayangaramaanaa kalappadam. raagam nE sollak koodaadhu. AFAIK it shows 11 out the 12 swaras :-)
  
  (11) Hanumathodi - gangai karai mannanadi
  
  This song has been listed under thodi too. What is the difference between the two ragas ?
  
  (12) HindhOLam:
  
  hmmm..many of IR's hindhOLam songs are dlieberately diluted by him. some pure numbers I can recollect are:
  
  a. unnal mudiyum thambi
  b. om namahh shivaaya
  c. dharisanam kidaikkadha - an ulta of samaja varagamana
  d. malaro ninalvo malai magaLo - this is a forgotten number by Jeyachandran - an awesome song
  e. oh janani en swaram nee
  
  ViLakku vaippom is not in hindhOLam but sudhdha dhanyaasi (eternal confusion :-))
  
  other numbers are often diluted with ni3 or m2 usage.
  
  (13) Jog - Aum Thatheem Thatheem - Punnagai Mannan
  
  NOOOO :-) this is one song which has never seem to be investigated in depth. I have seen everybody say and meekly accept it is Jog but this song has much more than just that raga. This is one of those fabulous numbers which only a genius like IR can give birth to.
  
  this song starts off with Jog - true. Jog ends at "idhuvum oru kalai aagum". The next two lines "seem" to be in desh. Or rather let us discard those two lines and proceed to the sharaNam.
  
  Jeyachandran's "aah" is once again in Jog followed by jathis in tabla. Then comes the drastic scale change. "nEtru en paattu shruthiyum vilagiyadhe" - This whole sharaNam is in Malaya maarutham.
  
  Then pallavi repeats itslef and we hear "jagaN jagaNa jam jam thaka" followed by Jeyachandrans' "aah". This "aah" is in chaarukEsi - a shruthi bEdham of chakravaagam - the mother raga of Malayamaarutham. After all those phrases, we land in "Om thadheem tha". It is here that IR proves what a master he is. He uses the shurhti bedham tactics to such an extent that u will find charukEsi and malayamaarutham alternating.
  
  I am sure that if I, with my limited knowledge, can dig up this much in this song, others like Vasu / IR /Geetha can find more interesting facts. please pour in. the song is available at raaga.com
  
  (14) kaamavardhini - rojavai thaalatum thendral
  
  What raga is this ? can somebody explain ?
  
  (15) Kalyani - Thevan Thandha Veenai - Unnai Naan Sandhithen
  
  Just an observation regarding this song (courtesy vijay). Has anybody heard "rE man sur mein gaa" by R.D.burman (Manna Dey / Asha Bhonsle). This song seems to have been inspired from that number. Asha and Manna freak out in that song proving their vocal supremacy.
  
  (16) Nilambari / KEdaram
  
  Vidhya once pointed out a song "kilukil pambaram'" of S.P.Venkatesh in kilikkam (mallu). I think she can comment on "sundahri neeyum sundhari njaanum".
  
  (17) khamaas - pazamudhir solai
  
  hmm..Seems like the characteristic ni3 is missing. I would say it is in Harikamboji.
  
  Seems like it is getting too long..'ll continue later
  
  
• From: IR fan (@ 202.56.194.140) on: Sat Aug 25 23:00:46 EDT 2001
  
  wow MS, what a clear response you have given...i am really greatful to you for taking time to comment on those listed songs....thank you so very much...i have taken note of all your changes.
  
  (1) Abheri - Chinnanjiru Vayathil - Meendum Kokila - Yes MS, it is not pure Abheri, but based on it ;-)
  
  
  (3) Andholika - Raman Aandaalum Ravanan Aandalum -Mullum Malarum - Some famous classical dancer had a big fight that 'Raman Aandaalum' was a staright copy by ilaiyaraja ( padma subra i think)...the fight continues till date :-)..Yes MS, you were true, what a folkish number based on pure raga..
  
  (4) Bhavapriya - Kandupudichen Kandupudichen - Guru Sishyan - Classical singer Sudha named this, i am not aware either
  
  (7) Chandrakouns - Karayaadha manamum undo - Varusham 16 and isai arasi from thai mookambikai - MS, can you pls clarify...
  
  (8) Charukesi - Chinnathayaval Thantha - Thalapathi (your point taken - raga seems to be kaapi and not chaarukesi.)
  
  (9) Dharmavathi - Anba Sumanthu - Ponnumani - this was confirmed in Ramanan's saptha swarangal i heard, not sure how dharmavathi goes...
  
  (10) Dharmaavathi - konji konji - (Your point taken - ;-)idhu bayangaramaanaa kalappadam. raagam nE sollak koodaadhu. AFAIK it shows 11 out the 12 swaras :-)
  
  (17) khamaas - pazamudhir solai - Yeah Harikambhoji is what i had listed it in, until in sapthaswarangal programme, ramanan accepted when a participant sang it saying it is khamas...can MS or others talk in detail?
  
  MS, i really hope you continue scrutinizing those listed songs..already you have helped in deleting three wrong ones...thank you for your time
  
  
• From: RR (@ 192.122.139.209) on: Sat Aug 25 23:25:38 EDT 2001
  
  MS,IR Fan: 'isai arasi' is in Soorya aka Sallapam. It's hindolam with G2 replaced by G3.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Sun Aug 26 00:50:44 EDT 2001
  
  RR:
  
  Please clarify as to whether the raga sallaapam takes G2 in the ascent and G3 in descent.
  
  
• From: sumathy (@ 194.170.168.244) on: Sun Aug 26 13:55:55 EDT 2001
  
  Hai
  could any of you tell me the ragaa of "Muthukalo Kangal" from Nenjirukkum varai
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Sun Aug 26 19:47:35 EDT 2001
  
  sumathy:
  
  Please see my posting in:
  
  http://newtfmpage.com/forum/17874.ros.html
  
  (From: MS (@ 129.252.26.149) on: Thu Aug 23 18:31:58 EDT 2001)
  
  IR fan:
  
  continuing..
  
  (18) Lalitha - ther eis another number in lalitha which is pretty unknown - vanakkuyilE kuyil tharum - from Priyanka
  
  (19) Lathaangi - chinna rasaave
  
  this is another song which has been grossly mistaken. I remember a discussion ling back with IR when we foudn out it is in sarasaangi and NOT lathaangi. Difference ? lathangi has m2 and sarasaangi m1. AFAI can hear only m1 is in the song.
  
  (20) Lavantipriya
  
  hmm...enna ragam idhu ?
  
  (21) Madhuvanthi - Ennule Yetho Yeangum Geetham - Rosappu Ravikkakaari
  
  Nope. seems to be in dharmaavathi. niraiya idangaLail madhuvanthiyOda prayogam gets a serious dish out.
  
  (22) alayamaarutham - Amudhae thamizhae - kovil pura
  Malayamaarutham - Nila kuyilae - Magudi
  
  Both are in a raga called rasikaranjani . vibhaas. There had bene enough discussion on thsi beautiful raga in this thread already. It is malayamarutham sans ni2
  
  (23) manirangu
  
  another name from the blues. Vasu ?
  
  (24) Gowlai
  
  Indha raagaththil oru paatu irukku. vEdham nee iniya naadham nee from Kovil pura. This song is an absolute gem.
  
  (25) Mohanam - bhadrakaaLi
  
  This song has a peculiar progression. It is Not in mohanam but the ascent/ descent are as follows:
  
  sa ri2 ga3 pa dha2 sa
  sa ni3 dha pa ga3 ri2 sa
  
  Nilavu thoongum neram and kasthuri maane - diluted with kalyaaNish effects. Idhayam oru kOvil - another song showing 10 swaras out of 12 but with mohanam as platform.
  
  (26) Eththanai kONam ehtthani paarvai
  
  this seems to be a completely classical colelction of IR but a rare one. If somebody has links, please put them here. there is one alai paayudhe by KJY/SJ.
  
  (27) natakpriya - chinnan chiru kiLIye
  
  illiyE..chaarukEsi madhiri irukku.
  
  (28) panthuvaraaLi / kamavardhini/ puriya dhanashree
  
  Somebody please explain the differences
  
  (29) poovikalyaaNi - ethilum ingu
  
  Definitely not. It is in vibhaas / rasikaranjani
  
  (30) ReethigowLai
  
  Antoehr number is "meettaadha oru veeNai" from poonthOttam
  
  (31) revathi
  
  Sangeetha jatthi mullai's aalap is in shivaranajni. It goes through a shruthi bedham and starts off in revathi.
  
  (32) sarasaangi
  
  Try humming "kaadhal kavidhaigaL padiththidum nEram"..u will be fooled for a moment that it is in sarasaangi. The song shows the characteristic rishabham of MMG only in sharaNam. MMG and sarasaangi differ onLy in Ri (ri1 for MMG and ri2 for sarasaangi). maharaajanOdu raaNi seyyum nEram seems to come very close to kaadhal kavidhaigaL because of this. Usually the usage of ri and ga differentiate ragas in a more punching manner than other swaras. but these two seem to be an exception.
  
  (33) saraswathi - isaiyil thodangudhamma
  
  Is it ? Not in hamsanaadham ? What are the swaras for saraswathi ?
  
  (34) Sindhu Bhairavi - Maniye Mani Kuyile - Nadodi Thendral
  
  This is a medley of 2 ragas. Don't remember what.
  
  (35) Shrotasvini
  
  Antoehr number in this raga is oh vasantha raja - atleast the start is in this raga. Sumam prathi sumam sumam (telugu) is also in this raga. I have a strong feeling that "poo maalai oru paavai aanadhu" ahs some shades of this raga
  
  (36) MalargaLil aadum iLamai pudhumaiye
  
  It has been listed under mohanam / sudhdha saaveri . I feel both are right..anotehr shruthi bedham confusion :-)
  
  (37) tharaLAm - thOGai iLamayil aadum
  
  ippadi oru raagama ? hmm..aaNDava :-)
  
  (38) vaguLAbaraNAm
  
  One song I can recollect is the folk classic - aaru adhum aazamillai..adhu sErum kadalum aazamillai. I somehow have a strong feeling that this has been the inspiration for "tu hi to tu hi to satrangi re" of dilse ( ennuyirE ennuyirE..en aarauyirE)
  
  (39) Vasantha:
  
  Other tidbit vasanthas : "raagam vasantha naanum rusiththu paarkka rasam thaa" and " vaazai ilai neer theLiththu pOdadi en kaNNe"
  
  Waiting for other's responses...
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Sun Aug 26 19:54:34 EDT 2001
  
  Just got reminded of another number in vakuLabraNam - "yey jinga jinukku dhaan indhaa unakku dhaan chittukkuruvi...yey bandha edhukkuyya pandhai uruttuyaa thottu thazuvi" from a bhagyaraj movie..
  
  

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