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Why Tamil Film Music is WAY AHEAD of other Indian Film Music?

Topic started by ..raj (@ 203.200.197.65) on Wed Feb 18 06:42:07 EST 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Be it IR, MSV, AR, YSR, or HJ..... Why Tamil Film music and composition is a way ahead of other Indian Film Music? Or I am feeling so since I am listening to them often?

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Responses:

• From: thiru (@ 210.214.128.161) on: Wed Feb 18 07:44:52 EST 2004
  
  Ir, msv and ARR in the list is perfectly acceptable but not Ysr and hj.
  YSR has done so many albums last 5-6 years yet his hits are limited.
  Poovelam ketupar, kk, deena, mp was average.
  rest ..... not worth mentioning. dont hype him cos he is IR's son.
  HJ - started with lot of promise but i think he has faded out with poor albums like ullam ketkume more, arasaktshi, kovil.
  Shankar's Anniyan might help HJ to come back.
  
  
• From: dubya (@ 203.195.208.3) on: Wed Feb 18 10:17:51 EST 2004
  
  Simple. IR factor is the most dominant factor which set high standards for film music composing.
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 4.17.250.5) on: Wed Feb 18 13:36:26 EST 2004
  
  because of the audience. There is a greater requirement for good music form Thamizh audience
  
  
• From: kuruvikkoottam (@ 210.210.76.35) on: Tue Feb 24 00:50:47 EST 2004
  
  it is way ahead, because it is running away and ahead, because it is on shaky ground and not much to stand on...
  .
  kuruvikkoottam
  
  
• From: Mumbai Ramki (@ 203.124.225.116) on: Thu Feb 26 02:48:41 EST 2004
  
  It is ahead only now ..not in 50s or 60s or 70 s ....!!!!!
  
  As far as bGM is considere dteh sole responsibility of lifting it inetrnational audiences goe sto maestro ...for songs it is only ARR ( as far as popularity is considered )
  
  
• From: dinesh (@ 210.186.42.1) on: Thu Feb 26 06:31:13 EST 2004
  
  its because ARR is in TFM,just see the diff when ARR is not gonna be in TFM,TFM music industry sure will face a downfall,just keep this word!!!no one will be there to improove TFM music..CHIOAWZ!
  
  
• From: Bollywood music sucks (@ 68.160.227.116) on: Thu Feb 26 15:33:00 EST 2004
  
  Mumbai Ramki,
  In the 50s and 60s music was good. So was tamil film music. In the 70s Hindi music degenerated to copying(only that it wasn't found out then). In the 80s it became more blatant. Tamil film music has always been good
  
  
• From: Bollywood music sucks (@ 68.160.227.116) on: Thu Feb 26 15:33:32 EST 2004
  
  "In the 50s and 60s music was good. " I mean Hindi film music was good.
  
  
• From: :-) (@ 203.200.199.155) on: Fri Feb 27 00:59:43 EST 2004
  
  HFM was good in 70s too. There were copied songs but few. Anyway the numbers (majority)that were huge hits were not copied.
  
  As opposed to that since 90s major hits/popular numbers in tamil have been blatant lifts/copies.
  "Height of bias" that someone doesnt see/say that.
  
  Its also true that the trend was reverse till 60s.
  HFM was a source of inspiration for many MDs in south ( particulary tamil/kannada)
  
  -UR_ATT_SUCKS
  
  
• From: AV (@ 132.206.72.95) on: Fri Feb 27 14:58:33 EST 2004
  
  "In the 70s Hindi music degenerated to copying(only that it wasn't found out then)"
  
  I don't really agree. Let's take the case of RDB. True it is that RDB was often heavily inspired by western sources. The website for plagiarism in Indian film music lists around 30-35 songs by RDB that were inspired or copied. Firstly, let us note that in his life, he composed atleast 2000 to 2500 songs in total. 35 out of 2000 is less than 2 per cent. And even as far these 35 songs go, most of them were not blatant rip-offs, the kind of stuff that Veda, Deva, Annu Mallick indulged in. (Even KVM's score in ShankarabharaNam is not an original. He has used existing classical songs almost as they were. Naushad too has re-used so many existing Hindustani bandishes almost as they were. In such a scenario, I do not understand why people are reserving their barbs solely for RDB or ARR! A copy is a copy whether its source is a western song or a traditional one!)
  
  In every inspired song, RDB has managed to put in his own unique stamp. So much so that I often prefer the inspired Hindi version to the English original. Maybe because those English singers just didn't possess Asha's superlative voice control. As a matter of fact, both R D Burman and his father, the illustrious S D Burman, were heavily inspired by Rabindra Sangeet. Some of their traditional compositions trace back to Bengali Rabindra Sangeet, Nazrul Geeti and Bengali folk music, albeit with their added input, such as clearly perceptible changes in rhythm, innovative interludes, intelligent use of pauses and other special effects and so on. Furthermore, let me add, that Rabindranath tagore himself was often inspired by Scottish and German folk music, Carnatic music and Hindustani classical bandishes. As a matter of fact, Tagore has himself documented his inspirations very candidly, something that today's composers may as well emulate!
  
  It is also true that Tamil MDs were inspired by Hindi film songs in the 60s (vice-versa also may be true!). For instance, all songs in Yaar Nee were note-by-note lifts from Woh Kaun Thi. S D Burman's Thandi Hawayein became Konjum Puraave.
  
  
• From: Bollywood music sucks (@ 68.160.227.116) on: Fri Feb 27 20:36:15 EST 2004
  
  "HFM was good in 70s too. There were copied songs but few. Anyway the numbers (majority)that were huge hits were not copied. "
  
  This is true. But, number of copied songs by RD Burman is way too high to pass it as acceptable limits. I mean what is Sholay without Mehbooba, Manoranjan without "Aya hoon mein", Yaadon ke baarat without chura liya. The fact that this happened during his peak makes it all the more worse.
  
  
  
  "As opposed to that since 90s major hits/popular numbers in tamil have been blatant lifts/copies.
  "Height of bias" that someone doesnt see/say that. "
  
  What happened in the 80s and 90s can't be compared. But, 70s set the tone however. Copying and climbing up the ladder was however started in 70s.
  
  "Its also true that the trend was reverse till 60s.
  HFM was a source of inspiration for many MDs in south ( particulary tamil/kannada) "
  
  The good talented ones like MSV, KVM, GRamanathan in Tam and GK Venkatesh in Kannda even then didn't copy. Veda and such did copy. Their ilk still is there in tamil films actually. Tamil films second rung are generally copycats.
  
  
• From: Bollywood music sucks (@ 68.160.227.116) on: Fri Feb 27 20:49:08 EST 2004
  
  "(Even KVM's score in ShankarabharaNam is not an original. He has used existing classical songs almost as they were. "
  
  No sir this is not completely true. Part of them were classical songs. But, songs like Sankara, Dorakuna, Ragam Tanam Pallavi, Omkara Naadanu were composed for the film.
  
  "Naushad too has re-used so many existing Hindustani bandishes almost as they were. In such a scenario, I do not understand why people are reserving their barbs solely for RDB or ARR! A copy is a copy whether its source is a western song or a traditional one!) "
  
  Easy to argue that. But consider this. A traditional one is accepted and known and is not made out as original work. If India had proper copyright laws, stealing from contemporary musician would get different treatment. Guess why.
  
  
  "It is also true that Tamil MDs were inspired by Hindi film songs in the 60s (vice-versa also may be true!). For instance, all songs in Yaar Nee were note-by-note lifts from Woh Kaun Thi. S D Burman's Thandi Hawayein became Konjum Puraave. "
  
  
  Veda was a known thief. Major MDs of tam didn't steal as much.
  
  
• From: bru (@ 68.126.191.68) on: Fri Feb 27 21:41:32 EST 2004
  
  HO HO HO NALLA BRUDAAAAAAAA
  
  
• From: AV (@ 132.206.72.96) on: Sat Feb 28 14:01:37 EST 2004
  
  "No sir this is not completely true. Part of them were classical songs. But, songs like Sankara, Dorakuna, Ragam Tanam Pallavi, Omkara Naadanu were composed for the film"
  
  Mea culpa! I ought to have been more specific.
  
  "Easy to argue that. But consider this. A traditional one is accepted and known and is not made out as original work."
  
  This is not always true. Not many people know the true source of many existing semiclassical songs. My point is that in terms of the MD's creative effort/ input, there is no difference what the source of inspiration is. And for that reason, RDB and ARR are no worse than Naushad or KVM. The genius MDs of yesteryears are not as frank in admitting their sources of inspiration, as they are in criticizing modern MDs.
  
  
• From: Bollywood music sucks (@ 141.157.236.35) on: Sun Feb 29 00:12:25 EST 2004
  
  "This is not always true. Not many people know the true source of many existing semiclassical songs."
  
  In films? Other day someone said Rahman copied Alaipayuthe kanna song from Raja's "ethanai Konam ethanai paarvai" without knowing that it is a song by Oothukadu's. Yeah it is impossible to educate people at times. But that is not my point. It is fairly well known when someone sings Brochevarevarura or Samaja varagamana. I mean, it is not possible for everyone to know who the composer is. But, people know it is not cheating.
  
  My point is that in terms of the MD's creative effort/ input, there is no difference what the source of inspiration is. And for that reason, RDB and ARR are no worse than Naushad or KVM. The genius MDs of yesteryears are not as frank in admitting their sources of inspiration, as they are in criticizing modern MDs.
  
  
  "My point is that in terms of the MD's creative effort/ input, there is no difference what the source of inspiration is."
  
  Actually there is a huge difference. Recycling traditional song doesn't count as cheating as you don't try to pass of Samaja Varagamana as your own work. If the original guy knew of Mehbooba song and sued RD Burman, with proper copyright laws, Burman would have become bankrupt instantly. Fact is there is lot more tolerance for plagiarism among public and law in India than in western world. In a western country a Plagiarist of the order of RB Burman would have been behind bars.
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 195.229.241.165) on: Sun Feb 29 05:30:39 EST 2004
  
  If Bappi had been sued India would have gone bankrupt.The decline of HFM started after 1974-75,decisevely Post-sholay period.Save for some bright talents like SEL and Vishal Baradwaj the situation is pathetic today.
  
  Sometime back i raised a question as to whether there are any Classical music movies/Classical raga usage in HFM since 80.When we can quote many numbers of IR ,ARR -AV(AVR?) a Dfer could respond with a solitary movie - Bhairavi ,the Ashwini Bhave starrer (MD-LP).
  
  
• From: jacky (@ 61.1.201.233) on: Sun Feb 29 07:35:28 EST 2004
  
  
  I think Ismail durbar can be added to the list of bright talents.
  
  

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