Creativity of Ilaiyaraja

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Creativity of Ilaiyaraja Creativity of Ilaiyaraja

Topic started by Bhaskar (@ ww-tk02.proxy.aol.com) on Sat Jan 3 00:48:33 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

Responses:

From: SATHYA (@ client-151-200-126-20.bellatlantic.net) on: Sat Jan 3 01:12:31 EST 1998

Hi Baskar,

You have started a nice Topic. I will put forth a request. In Cine Songs we have a lot of "BUZZ" words without realising the meaning of which we start the topic and diverting the attention in many places. I like to quote a few words which have no absolute meaning. We have to decide the meaning at each context.

Trend
Creativity
Versatile
Viththiyasamana

In this context, if you or somebody else can explain what really we mean by "Creativity", then it will be helpful for all of us to proceed with a converging discussion. I am also eager to share my views once you start the discussion.

Sathiyavageeswaran - (vagees@hotmail.com)
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tk02.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Jan 3 01:40:16 EST 1998

Nanbargale,

When it comes to Creativity IMO, there is none other than Isaigyani Ilayaraaja.

Indha thread Ilayaraaja-vudaya most creative songs pattri discuss seivadharkku ellorukkum oru oppurtunity kidaikkum endru ninaikkiraen.

Indha thread-il neenga ellorum endha paadalai kaetta pinbu ungalukku IR is a Genious endru thondriyadhu andha maadiriyaana paadalgalai vivarikkavendum. Many people have got this feeling at diifferent times and for different songs of IR.

I do not want to divert attention from Vijay's topic of Ilayaraajas greatest Hits, which I am yet to contribute, but this thread will discuss the different aspects of the great songs that have made a major impact on the rasigars.

I think we could discuss about the most creative songs that came after 1984 till date, to avoid redunduncy from Vijay's thread.

But if you feel that the song came before 1984 and had impacted you too much, then you could post that as an exception, explaining why that song made you think great about IR.

Ennai migavum kavardha IR-udaiya paadal endraal Idayatthai thirudadhe padathil varum Ohm Namaha Song dhaan. It was like a 440 Volts shock when I listened to the song for the first time. It just made me immerse into a different world. I was flying in air when I was seeing the song in the theatre, romba unarchivasapattu vittaen endru ninaikkiraen, Aanandha kanneraal KaN kalangiyadhu. First thing I did coming out of the theatre was buying the cassette.

Veettil vandhavudan ellorukku indha pattai pottu pottu elloraiyum kelungal kelungal endru solli kondu irundhaen, Yen endru puriyavillai, Was I going mad or was I just overwelmed by the tune, I could not understand.

Indha maadiri one does a lot of strange things when they listen to songs created by IR which they like so much and which take them out-of-the-world. I assume that this also might be one of the reason why there are so many "rasigars" and "theevira rasigars" of IR, One just can't explain why ??

Idho andha paadaukkana varigal, Indha varigalai paadalai kettukondae paditheergalaanaal ungalukkum oruvagaiyaana out-of-the-world feeling varum endru ninaikkiraen :)

Silence Please ......

Dag Dag Chik Chik Dag Dag....
Chik Chik Dag Dag Chik Chik Dag Dag....
Chik Chik, please put this in the BG :)

Mmmmm.......

Kadhalan:
Ohmm Namaha, urugum uyirukku
Ohmm namaha, uyirin unarvukku
Ohmm.....

Kadhali:
Ohmm namaha, unarvin uravukku
Ohmm namaha, uravin udhavikku
Ohmm.....

Kadhalan:
Vaan vazhangum amudha kalasam
Vaai vazhiyae thadumbi thadumbi
Vazhiyidhoo....

Kadhali:
Thaen pongum deiva vadivam
ThOl thazhuvi thalaivan madiyil
Vizhundhadhoo....

Interlude, adhae paceil oru inimaiyaana violin
kalandhu ennattra karuvigal, isaiyai aruviyaaga
kottuginrana.

Kadhalan:
Moongilil kaatru nuzhaindhu
Mohanam paadudhaa...

Kadhali:
Naal vagai naNam marandhu
Naadagam aadudhaa....

Kadhalan:
Aayiram sooriyan
Naadiyil yerudhaa....

Kadhali:
Aadhiyum andhamummmm....
Vervaigal oorudhaa....

Kadhalan:
Noolaadai vilagi vilagi
Neerodai perugi vazhiyum
Vaelaiii....

Kadhali:
Muttangal vaithathum
Moondru ulagai marandha nenjukku
Ohmmmm.....

Interlude , ting ting, ting ting ... fusion of flute and violin ....

Kadhali:
Sevvidhazh saerum podhu
Jeevangal silirthadhu...

Kadhalan:
Ovvoru aasaiyaaga ullathil
Thulirthadhu...

Kadhali:
Melliya Maeniyum
Sillena aanadhu....

Kadhalan:
Vetkkamum seekiram vidai pettru
Ponadhu...

Kadhali:
Eadendru idaiyum irukka
Nool ondru idhayam
Ezhudhadho....

Kadhalan:
Ilaimaiyin Ilakkanam
Eduthu solliya Ilayaa
Kannikku Ohmm...

Ohm namaha....

Oru kaadhal paadalukku vendiya anaitthu creativity-yum indha paadalil kaanalam. Given the least importance to lyrics since this song was remade for tamizh from Telugu, the tune and the music delivers the effect of the Kaadhal fire :)

Since Kaadhal is my most favourite subject I have described this first :)

Will be back with more Creative songs of IR later on other subjects.

Neengalum ungal paadalgalai konjam sollugalaen...
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tk02.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Jan 3 01:59:20 EST 1998

Thanks for the Intro...
Satya:
Innum muzhucchi kondu irukkireergala :))
Naandhaan indha TFMDF-la addict aagi vittu Sappadu/thanni/thookam ellam marandhu vittu ippadi type senjukittu irukkaen :))

Naan Creativity yoda meaning enna endru puriyavaikka try seidhullaen.

Various aspects of Creativity:
Creativity - How well it fits into the situation of the Movie ?
Creativity - How well the tune sounds in the situation ?
Creativity - How does the song make an impact on the brains of the reasigars ?
Creativity - How well the orchestration for the song reflect with the lyrics ?
Creativity - How does the lyrics fit into the tune ? Eventhough this is the on the Lyricist Part, slection of the lyricist also makes a difference.
Creativity - Blending the playback singers ?
Creativity - Marubadiyum Marubadiyum ketkka thoondum badiyaana Raagam or tune (Catchyness) ?

Innum solli kondae irukkalam ...

Apparom, ungalukku Pattukku Paattu Pottiyil neengal leading score eduthadharkkaga oru free TFM CD titled "Hits of IR" kodukka pogiraen :) Ungal Address anuppungal :) Ennudaya Anumin-Mugavari bhaskar@lucent.com
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.238) on: Sat Jan 3 02:25:08 EST 1998

hi bhaskar,
i would say that the song 'poomalai vaangi vandhan' from sindhubhairavi fits all your aspects of creativity very well. i have talked about this song in brief before.let me elaborate it a little bit more:
situation: sivakumar boozes,loses respect,he being a great carnatic singer before is just reduced to an ordinary drunkard, because the girl whom he had liked and loved for her knowledge of music which his wife did not have,unfortunately cannot meet him anymore.he becomes depressed and resorts to drinking.
song:poomalai - KJY

the song beautifully merges in to the film and it is asupreme example of the collective genius of IR and KB.

regarding affecting the listeners mind and making him listen again and again ,this song scores over every other classical song which raja has composed in my opinion.

KJY starts of the song in a melancholy tainted voice bringing out the mood beautifully.the lyrics ( by VR ?) goes off like this:
POOMALAI VANGI VANTHAAN POOKAL ILLAYE
SEVI ILLAI INGORU ISAI ETHARKU?
THIRI ILLAI INGORU VILAKKETHARKU?
NAALUM NAALUM AVL NINAIVAL EVEN AZHUTHU
POOOMALAI....
and goes on.i don't want to elaborate on the lyrics except to mention that they suit the situation very very well.

regarding orchestration, melody and the lasting power of the song:
IR has marvellously exploited the beauty of kaanada in this song.the interludes are simply amazing.in the first interlude sivakumar is being carried to his house in an inebriated state and u can listen to the scores of violins and the veena which will leave u breathless. especially in the second interlude

there is a scene in which sulakshana fires sivakumar's driver since it's because of the car that siva goes out to drink.there is a pause for a while in the song when this scene takes place ,or rather the music plays slowly in the BG while sulakshana asks the driver to leave.then as the driver kneels down on the car and cries the BGM takes over with violins playing the swaras at express speed and when the crescendo is reached u are left in a trance.(KB's musical knowledge and direction during this scene deserves special mention)iam experiencing this feeling everytime i listen to this song.u should listen to this song in a kenwood system with bose speakers and surround sound in an enclosed room guys,no exaggeration ,u'll forget everything else in life.

the first few times i listened to the song , I was emotionally moved and the song has left an indelible impact on me.who else other than IR can do it?
ULTIMATE EXAMPLE OF MUSICAL CREATIVITY AND GENIUS.
vijay
From: Sathya (@ client-151-200-125-27.bellatlantic.net) on: Sat Jan 3 05:54:47 EST 1998

My Paravasam Starts Right away from Annakili with TMS singing.

NATHIYORAM PIRANTHAAL
KODIPOLE VALARNTHAAL
MAZHAIYODUM VEYILODUM MANAM POL KALANTHAAL
URANGAAMAL...............................
URANGAAAMAL KAN VILITHTHU OLAI KONDU MAI ELUTHI
ENAKKAAGA KATHTHRUNTHAAL ENNAI NAANE MARANTHENE..

ANNAKKILI UNNNA THEDUTHE.......

I am losing myself at this song. I hardly see such a depth in the tunes (supported by Lyrics) till then.

Sathya
From: Sathya (@ client-151-200-125-27.bellatlantic.net) on: Sat Jan 3 06:27:07 EST 1998

Sorry, did you tell after 1984? Ok!
From: Sathya (@ client-151-200-126-30.bellatlantic.net) on: Sat Jan 3 06:59:41 EST 1998

I like to qute "Then Pandi seemaiyile" in Nayagan. The speciality is that this song was primarily for BGM. The director has talen the film for more than an year. But Raja during BGM in 5 days has composed this song and used as BGM. The song will be used for all situations in the film. For a happy family environment, a sensation, a disaster everything. I am wondering how he could supress the director in 5 days, with the director having spent over an year on the film.
I claim this type of songs was a trend set by Raja. It is his creativity. He was the person who used the key songs of films as BGM. It was a trend set by Raja.
Raja Rajathaan.
Sathya
From: RAJAN (@ proxy-111.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on: Sat Jan 3 10:40:03 EST 1998

Yesterday, i listened to IR's concert in Singapore in the video. Some interesting things are there in that concert.

Gangai Ameran: Paadalgalil puthumai seikirergal yendru yellorum solgirargale, athai konjam vilakka mudiyuma?
IR: Puthumai yethuvum seiyavillai, puthu uththigalai thaan yen isayil puguththukirean.
Appadi naan muthan muthalil panniathu COUNTERPOINT.
Intha counterpoint-a songsla pannanumnu aasai, atharkaana situation yenakku kidaichathu.
More than one melody sounded together is called ounterpoint.
athaavathu oru song-la 2 tune irukkum. antha 2 tunayume thani thaniya paadina atharkku thani thaniya artham irukkum, but irandayume serththu ore neraththil paadinaal atharkku innoru artham irukkum.
Ithanaii naan kavigar VAALIkku puriya vaikka yennakku konjam kastamaaga irunthathu. Athanaal naane oru tune amaithu utharanaththudan vilakkinean. Naan eppadi vilakkinean yendru ungal munnal seithu kaattukirean.
(Chitra, S.N.Surendarai alaiththu 2 veru tunegalai udane poattu, atharkku lyricsum oru sila vinaadi yochiththu solgiraar; eppadi paada veandum yendru solli kodukkiraar;muthalil iruvarum thani thaniyaaga paadugiraargal; appuram training mudinthavudam iruvarum ore samayaththil paadugirargal)
Avar sonne 2 tunegalai yenakku sollaththeriavillai, antha lyrics:
Kaathalan kaathaliyai varniththu paadukiraar:
Kaathalan: Pon thaan nee...
Kaathali yekkaththudan paadugirar:
Kaathali: Manjam arukil varuvaayo...?

So ithu irandume thani thani tune and veara veara artham lyricsil irukkirathu. Ithai irandayuve ore samayaththil sernthu paadinal namakku innoru tune matrum innoru lyricsum kidaikirathu.
Irandum searntha poathu kidaitha lyrics:
Pon
manjam
thaan
arukilneevaruvaayo

First word from first lyrics and first word from second lyrics; second word from first lyrics and second workd from second lyrics; like wise ..

The lyrics is:
PON MANJAM THAAN ARUKIL NEE VARUVAAYO...

Intha couterpoint yentha paadalil IR seithar yendru yaaraavathu guess panni sollungalean!

Gaigai Amaran: (Adi aathadi from kadalora kavithaigal paattai paadikondirukkum poathu tune, lyricsai maranthu vittar; udane gangai ameran atharkku uthavi seithuvittu; yenane ungalukke maranthu poachcha yendru saigayil ketgiraar)
IR: Naan oru tune poatta udan, antha tunai maranthu viduvean yenenral antha tune thirumba vanthu vidakkoodathendru.

Ippadi yinnum sila interesting matters..!
From: RAJAN (@ proxy-111.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on: Sat Jan 3 10:43:00 EST 1998

Sorry for the typo.
Read arukilvaruvaayoas
arukil

varuvaayo
From: RAJAN (@ proxy-111.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on: Sat Jan 3 10:46:42 EST 1998

Ayyo meandum meandum thavaru seithu vittean!
read
Pon
manjam
thaan
arukil
nee
varuvaayo...!
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-ta03.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Jan 3 17:20:43 EST 1998

Rajan:

Pretty interesting :) aanal tune enna endru theriyaamal naanga enna vendru guess seivadhu ?

Anyways neengale sollungal :)

Sathya:

Anna kiliye unnai thaedudhe paadal oru vidhamana mesmeriser :)

Vijay:

Ungal Poomalai vaangi vandhaal explanation is sooper!! Aanaal unga Bose speakers ellam afford seiyyum alavukku ennaal ippodhaikku mudiyaadhu, ennidam irukkum system-il neenga sonna andha description vaithu kaettu marubadiyum ezhudhugiraen.

Sathya & Vijay:
Oru chinna suggestion neenga Lyrics ezhudhumbodhu italics-il pottaal migavum eduthukaataaga irukkum :) Capitals is usually used in the internet for Flames :)) Kashtama irundha vittudunga paravaillai.
From: gopal (@ 1cust7.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Sat Jan 3 21:46:40 EST 1998

Bhaskar ungaLLukku anuppiya email return aaguthE?!
enna pannalAm??
From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.140.75) on: Sat Jan 3 22:17:29 EST 1998

Counterpoint experimentation can be seen in Sigappu rojakkal itself.

Pattu: "ninaivo oru paravai". It's very conspicuous at the end. It's a different
experienece to listen!

IR's creativity discuss panna intha oru page
pothumaa? Sidhu bairavi padathukku mattume
oru page venum.
From: RAJAN (@ proxy-122.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on: Sat Jan 3 22:24:02 EST 1998

Bhaskar:
Counterpoint:
That song is "Yen kanmani, Un kaathali" from CHITTUKURUVI.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.238) on: Sun Jan 4 00:33:29 EST 1998

hi everyone,
the mirror site at singapore iti.gov.sg does not seem to be up?can anyone confirm it?(ravi?rajan?sathya?gopal?)
vijay
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.238) on: Sun Jan 4 00:48:56 EST 1998

hai bhaskar,
thanx for reading my selection.truly a marvellous song.even i do not have any kenwood system with bose speakers etc.it was just an imagination.i imagined how it would be if i were to listen the song in such a system and in case anyone of u happened to have one,i thought maybe
u could try listening to this particular song once more.
each time i listen to this song i discover something new in that song which makes me enjoy it better.
vijay
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tp03.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jan 4 02:00:55 EST 1998

Gopal:

I have the following Email-Ids:

1. bhaskar@lucent.com
2. patilv@aol.com
3. bhaskaran@hotmail.com

You can make a copy to each of these so that I will get a copy for sure :)
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tp03.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jan 4 02:16:37 EST 1998

Rajan:

En Kanmani Un kadhali is indeed a song lot of special effects.

Other CounterPoint songs of IR :)

Movie: Pagal Nilavu sung by IR & SJ.

Poomalaiye (engum iru) thOl seravaa

and

Movie: Nizhalgal sung by IR? & SJ

Poongadhavae (mmmmm) thazhthidavaa

The words in the brackets are sung using counterpoints :)
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tp03.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jan 4 02:18:31 EST 1998

Ohh.... time 2:16!! post pannaperagu dhaan realise seigiraen, Let me get some sleep :))) See you in the morning :)
From: Nithin Sreedevan (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on: Sun Jan 4 12:49:43 EST 1998

Guys, excellent discussion. Thanks to Sathya and Bhaskar.

BTW, it is not difficult to buy any music system in this country. So, please do not hesitate to enjoy listening to Raja's after 1984 songs in better setings. Before 1984, I think we could all enjoy his evergreen melodies even from AIR. He has experimented with rhythms and beats in the mid 1980s. I am just listening to the song "Chinna Rasaave, Adikadi...." on Bose. Ayyayyo (to express in Navarasa Nayakan's terms) Yenna Pattu, Ayyayyo, what a great song!!

BTW, for me the most captivating songs of Raja is about a 1000 of them. However, a special mention will be made of
"Megame thoothakava, azhakin aradhanai", "Ninaithal Innikkum, Nalla Neram Verum",
"Oru Kumkuma Chenga Manam",
"O Nenjame Ithu Un Ragame",
"Nandavanathil Oru Vann Kuyile"
"Aananda Raagam, Ketkum Kaalam"
"Machchayane Paathingala"
"Iru Paravaigal, Mazhai.."

as being songs with dramatic effects on my moods. Each one has evoked some special soft feelings of me becoming a part of my land and my people, being protected by blue skies and being watched over the moon in the night times with the suns rays and moon beams smiling from through or between the leaves of trees. I felt like as if these songs were enough to help bring peace, happiness and content to the poor and the souls languishing for love for thousands of years.

Tamizhnattu and the whole of South India is truly blessed by God with this once in a 5000 year creation called Ilaiyaraja to happen in our midst today.
From: murali (@ pm8-dbq143.dubuque.net) on: Sun Jan 4 22:24:45 EST 1998

Guys, interesting discussion.

I don't know how many of you heard the song 'Engum
Neraintha Iyargaiyyin Inbakkanavo' from a movie 'Idhu yappadi yurukku' starring Rajini and Sridevi. The movie came in the year 1978. When I heard this song in Ceylon Radio first time,I was really struck (like lightning) by this song's melody and orchestration, it took me to a different world of ectasy.The flute interludes were out of the world stuff. I would give this as an example for Raja's creativity. I have not heard this song for a long time. It will be nice, if somebody can stream this song in this site.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.238) on: Sun Jan 4 22:44:36 EST 1998

murali,
i agree with u.that is a wonderful song.i happened to mention this song in another thread
regarding the name of the film and starcast.i was told jai was there with sri.surprisedto know that it was a rajni movie.songs with rich tunes marked the late seventies and early eighties period of raja.if u all remember more songs u can quote them in my '(1978-1984) oldies collections' thread.
From: gopal (@ 1cust168.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Mon Jan 5 00:04:23 EST 1998

murali
i have the song, and i shall play that in my home page for Raaja. let me have your email.
From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Mon Jan 5 16:03:40 EST 1998

Bhaskar,
In a similar note to "Ohm Namahaa" , there are two excellent songs in "Kaathal Oivathilai " starring karthik . (Most of u would not have heard abt this movie..). The songs are "raaja mohini " and " Maanicka chilaye .. " . I would say these are one of the best duets from IR.
SJ is terrific in the later song. Whenever i hear this song i feel something is special abt the song - but i don't have a clue. Is this a rare raaga or is it the orchestration .?? Has anyone heard these songs. I would like to hear more abt this .Thanks
From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Mon Jan 5 17:22:01 EST 1998

MSK:

Alaigal Oivathillai starring Karthil kaettu irukkiraen, but not Kaathal Oivathillai :)) About the songs also I am not getting a clue with just two words, may be GP can help us here?

GP:

Neenga kaettu irunkeengala ?
From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Mon Jan 5 18:15:53 EST 1998

Well, The starting line goes like this.!

#1. Raaja Mohini Suba raaga devi nee
..

#2. Maanicka silayae manmatha kalaiye
manasukkul adikuthu alaiyee..
aenintha kanavu aaanantha ninaivu
etharko thudikuthu imaiye..
Thaen kudam sinthiya eeram thedukiren
Ithazh Orum..
Thalaiyizh irunthu virunthu
Thalaivaa thinamum arunthu ..

That's all i could recollect -I have'nt heard that song in the last few months. I'll dig up from my cassettes and post the exact lyrics of the first few lines. But I tell u, The song is a real Feast.!

MSK
From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Mon Jan 5 18:43:25 EST 1998

MSK:

I don't think karthik *ing in that movie, vaguely remember about the stars but I can guess Prabhu in the lead role. I saw the cover of LP record of this movie in audio centers long long ago. I am not sure though. But I do remember the songs, they are too good.

MPR
From: murali (@ pm1-dbq114.dubuque.net) on: Mon Jan 5 22:06:05 EST 1998

Vijay,

Happy to know that you also felt the same way about 'Engum Neraintha...' song.

Gopal,

Thanks. Looking forward to listen to the song.
From: murali (@ pm1-dbq114.dubuque.net) on: Mon Jan 5 22:07:46 EST 1998

Gopal,

My e-mail id is murali@dubuque.net.
From: Gokul (@ 171-136-112.ipt.aol.com) on: Mon Jan 5 23:51:45 EST 1998

MSK:

You are right about the name of the movie.
It is called Kathal Oyvadhillai.I think Mohan
was the Hero and looks like a dubbed movie from
Telugu. The one song I remember is something
Goes like "Ranga Ranga". IR was the MD and it had
good songs.
From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Tue Jan 6 11:23:51 EST 1998

Gokul and MSK: Kaadhal Oivathillai *ed Karthik and Ramya Krishnan. It is dubbed from Telugu. Came sometime in early 90s.
From: Ramki (@ b205.bernhard.wmich.edu) on: Tue Jan 6 17:11:55 EST 1998

Ravi Shobana was the heroine in 'kaadhal oyvadhillai'.

Bhaskar i will like to mention'vasantha kaala kolangal'from Thyagam.Romba simplaana music but effective lyrics and mesmeserising tune.Adhuvum SJanakiyoda voicele sila lines romba effectiva vandhurkkum like'theril aerum munnamae devan ullam therindhadhu,nalla velai thiru ullam nadakkavillai thirumanam,nandri nandri deva unnai marakka mudiyuma'.

The same film had another good solo by TMS'nallaverkkellam saatchigal rendu'.Though the initial tune and music was the repetition of the hindi original,Raja changes it beautifully in the charanam.
From: Amar (@ worf.qntm.com) on: Wed Jan 7 14:29:30 EST 1998

Bhaskar,
The title of this topic made me look into this in the midst of my busy schedule and I would like to make a comment.
You have made several points as the defining factors for "Creativity", but in my humble opinion, except for point#3(the impact on the brains of the listeners which may to some extent qualify) other factors are pretty much required for every song( a lot of songs may or may not follow that, but that is besides the point! ).

IMO, creativity is something unusual that bends or breaks the "norm" accepted/expected; somthing that shows a very different/novel way of doing something known; something that surprises the listener's senses as it pleases.

For example, in "Urukkamaana" situations, we always( pretty much ) expect the sound of "Shenai" or "violin", but instead, if the MD comes up with a tune with "guitar" or "drums"( which is unimaginable and I don't even know if that is possible! ) and still brings out the "Urukka" unarchi in the listeners, then there is Creativity.

The song( Yen Kanmani, Unn Kaathali ) that Rajan mentioned for "counterpoint" is something never ever tried before and that you can definitely call as being "Creative".

The song from "Sindubhairavi" where Suhasini tries to prove her point to Sivakumar by accepting his challenge and starts singing "Paadariyein Padippariyein" in a folksy tune and gradually transition it into Sivakumar's forte, the traditional Carnatic "Marimari Ninney" is something I consider a "Creative" attempt( owing to the greatness of KB & IR, whoever and however that song idea originated and was implemented ).

"Kanmani Anbodu Kaathalan, Naan Ezhuthum Kadithamey" from "Gunaa" is an excellent example of IR's creativity( partial credit goes to Kamal for coming up with such a novel requirement )

"Antharangam Yaavumey, Solvanthenraal Paavamaa?" from "???" by SPB is a song( I haven't seen the movie and so I don't know the actual scene, but I am guessing that the Manasaatchi of the Hero is singing and the Hero himself is counter-singing ) for another Creative idea( but, this one has already been attempted by MSV in "Sakkappoadu Poadu Raja, Unn Kaattiley Mazhai Peyyuthu" in "Bharathavilas" ).

Using the appropriate singers for the actors/actresses and for the situations is expected and there is nothing great in doing the expected thing. But, if an MD uses a very inappropriate singer for an actor/actress or situation and still makes the whole thing look and sound great is being "Creative".
For example, at one point, everyone expected some known singers for "Carnatic" songs( Balamuralikrishna, Yesudass, TMS, Sirgazhi, et al ) and SPB was known for Love/Romantic/Playful songs. But, KVM used SPB to song all the great Carnatic songs in "Shankarabaranam" and still made the songs and the movie sound/look great. That is being creative.

I can go on and on, on "creative" ideas in songs by IR but will have to take a break now and come back later.

If we follow your general rules for defining creativity, then we might end up listing all the great hits of IR. If I am wrong, please let me know where and how.
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-ti05.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Jan 7 19:54:02 EST 1998

Amar:

Thanks for bringing out the exact meaning of Creativity, if you see my posting time it is 2.00am early in the morning :) So appodhaikku thoninadhai ezhudivitaen, neenga romba arumayaga meaning kuduthu irukkenga. But I hope you got what I wanted to convey by the explanation of the Kaadhal Song Ohm Namaha, Usually Ohm Namaha appadeengra vaarthai devotional songs-la mattum dhaan kaettu iruppom, aanaal IR andha vaarthaiyai oru Kaadhal paadalukku evvalavu effective-aaga use seidhu irukkirar endru paarthaal adhuvum enakku oru Creativity maadiri dhaan thonudhu :))

Neenga sollra aspects vachhum indha topic-la ezhudhalaam. Neenga sonna piragu enakkum etthanayo paadalgal mandhukku varuginrana, For Ex. Song in Kalyana Raaman, Kamal or SPB sings in a very different tone, Aahan vandhurichhu aasaiyil odivandhaen, paalum pazhamum thevaiyilla is an excellent song, eventhough the tone of the singer is unusual :))

More Later . . .
From: kirubakaran (@ slipper.watcom.on.ca) on: Wed Jan 7 21:41:54 EST 1998

Subject: Stereo Systems

Kenwood or Bose are not necessarily good systems to listen to music (sorry, I dont mean to offend anyone. I just want to share some info here). They are probably good for watching TV - exaggerated bass.

Here are few guidelines -

1) you need a really high current amplifier. The parameter to look for is "headroom". This rules out most receivers sold in US stores. The Sony "ES" series are better.

2) Do not go for the "mini-component" systems like Aiwa etc. Go for amps, speakers etc.

3) If you are in the US/Canada you can buy the Stereophile magazine. Or search the net. Usually people put up their reviews.

4) The quality of CD/tape also matters. I find ARR CDs to have better recording than CDs of old Ilayaraja songs. Maybe old songs are in analog tapes with hiss which converted to the digital CD format are not very good.

The configuration I have is considered the cheapest. I have a NAD Integrated amplifier (no remote) cost US$325 and PSB speakers US$180. You can get Paradigm speakers for the same price. I like my system. I tested my system before buying it with Pink Floyd - The Dark side of Moon and Wall. Pink Floyd music is good for testing - was recommended by a music savvy friend.

Regards,
- kiru
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tp04.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Jan 7 22:53:35 EST 1998

Kiru:

Thanks for your kind information. Aana ARR CDs, IR CDs appadinnu comparison kondu vanthadhum konjam bayama irukku, I do not intend this topic to have any mention of ARR, as this topic is purely devoted to "Creativity of Ilayaraja" :) Eventhough your comparison was on a different vien, I hope this is ignored by everyone and continue discussion related to the topic :))

I would like to share with all of you another song by IR which I think is very creative. No one before has ever attempted to give a Pure Madras Cheri Bhaashai(No Offense intended!) song before. IMO, IR was the first one to give a song of the kind which was very catchy too in the movie En uyir thozhan. The lyrics of the song goes like this:

IR:
Machhi mannaru, En mansu kulla bejaru,
Touch-chu pannaru, Takkaraa ninnu pOnaru

Daavu oru daavu naan kattum nEram
NOovu oru nOovu puriyama yaerum
Thaaraen othamaiyan poova

Ah sammu sammunnu vaasam,
Ayya sallu sallu-nnu thookum

Machhi Mannaru .....

Yaaaaanannnnn.......

Sokkaana kuppathulla, kuyilukku ooodu
Kaetkadha bhaasayila, koovi paadu

Chitra:
Raasave unna vittu naan enna paada
Koosama kaiyya sendhadaa..

IR:
Yen cauveri aaraattam ne maen ne maen
Oodadha kooovam dhaan naa maen

Chitra:
Pazhasellam poiyaachu raasa, raasa
Mansellam poovaachhu laesaa

IR:
Yea....
Asaiyilla allikina, anga inga killikina
Ulladhella sollikina, unna vachhu thallikinu
Oooorellan rounduduvom vaaa maen..

Chitra:
Ah sammu sammunnu vaasam,
Ayya sallu sallu-nnu thookum

IR:
Yinna sada paatthukiniyaa...
Yippo innanRa :))

IR:
Regentaaa kOtu suitu pottukinu keeraen
Nee kaetta ellathaiyum vaangiyaaraen

Chitra:
Sooperstaar padathukkuthaan kootikittu pOnga
Adhukkaga tickettu rendu vaangiyaanga

IR:
Yea..
Kai kaala peechaangarai yaen maen yaen maen
Kai kOthu yen kooda vaa maen

Chitra:
Nee pogum edamellam naa dhaan varaen
Thaangadhu piringaalae veru

IR:
Appdingra...

Saami kaiyil chatthiyama
Solliputtaen nichayama
Chittiyilae needhaan inga
Dharmanukku sondhamu maen
Saera samandhatha thaa maen

Chitra:
Ah sammu sammunnu vaasam,
Ayya sallu sallu-nnu thookum

IR:
Yaa....

Chitra:
Ah sammu sammunnu vaasam,
Ayya sallu sallu-nnu thookum

IR:
Machhi mannaru, En mansu kulla bejaru,
Touch-chu pannaru, Takkaraa ninnu pOnaru
From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Wed Jan 7 23:51:26 EST 1998

Yes!. This is a fabulous song. If u refer back to one of the Classical IR articles by Lakshmi , it says that it is a pure classical raga preseneted in a very catchy way - ie in colloqial tongue.

I love this song just for the tuen and simplicity-
No one but IR can do this ..
From: Amar (@ worf.qntm.com) on: Thu Jan 8 09:41:14 EST 1998

Bhaskar,
I can only vaguely remember the song "Ohm Namaha" from "Idhayathai Thirudaathey" and hence, I did not comment on that song. I will try to listen to that song and then put my comment on that. But, your point on how that song is unique and hence creative is will taken.
Keep this good topic flowing.

"Aahaa Vanduthuchu" from "Kalyaana Raman" is another creative song from IR in that song by itself as well as in giving the same song in a different tone with another singer was excellent.

"Machi Mannaaru" song from "Enn Uyir Thozhan" was a good example of creativity. As MSK pointed out, I also remembered reading that Classical IR article where it was mentioned that this song was not only just based on a Pure Raga but also the raga was supposedly a "Soga Raga" and IR had come up with a "Fun & Jolly" kind of tune with that Raga. The article also mentioned that pure Classical Experts criticized this attempt but I am sure they would have wondered and admired( in their hearts ) at this creative attempt by IR.

More later!
From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Thu Jan 8 13:55:55 EST 1998

I have machchi mannAru only once (maybe twice). I think it is
mAyAmALava gowLa rAgam.
From: Arimugam (@ mercmarine.com) on: Thu Jan 8 14:57:02 EST 1998

Oru katchiyil padal eppadi aarampithathu enru theriyamal appadiye kaatchiyudan onri varuvathu "CREATIVITY" enraal Raja Rajaathaan. Enakku piditha sila Creativity samples..
1. Muthaliravil revathiyudan kamal pesinde irukkumpothu paattaka maaruvathu.."Ingi iduppazagi.." antha sokkavaikkum voice and appadiye kalantha isai. (Devar Magan)
2. Kampu suthinde irukkumpothu music start ayittu "saanthu pottu oru santhana pottu" padal uruvaanathu arumai. (Devar Magan).
3. Letter elutharathu patta maari neradiya solla vendiyathe solra katchi Gunavil idha vida Creativitykku example solra pattu thevai illai.
4. Oru azhakana girl vidikaalayil kolam podumpothu athum maadilernthu oru azhakaana ilaignan parkumpothu just kolam pottuttu smile pannittu pona oru kaatchikku sirappu illai, antha kaatchikku uyir koduthu 'Kaalai thenral padi varum raagam' enru oru excellent song koduthu asathiya raja is "king of creativity' in music.
5. Oru kuzhappamana athe samayam comedyana kathci atharku oru mettamaithu kalakkiya rajain creativity 'kai vaichalum vaichalum vaikkama vidamatten..' Mickel mathana kama rajanil kalakkal.
6. 'Adi aathadi ilam manasonnu' from Kadalorak kavithaikal.
7. Oru nanbanaga, kaathalanaaga, uyiraaga ninaithiruntha oru uyarntha nadanak kalaignan, mathuvirku adimayagi aabathana nilayail kinatrin mel adikondu iruppathu, thanathu uyiraga ninaitha kathaliyay neenda kalankalukku pinpu santhikkinra oru katchi 'Salangai oli'. Antha 'thakida thathumi thakida thathumi thanthaana..
ithaya oliyin jathyil enathu thillana..' antha paadalin creativity, antha song mudiyumpothu kamal and jaya meet pannumpothu oru background music, wow athu creativitynga.
8. Pathinaaru vayathinile (1984kku munnal release enral sorry please take this one as exception) sridevi kamalukku oru arai koduthathum oru paattu start aagum(aattukutti muttai ittu or sevvanthi poo mudikka), antha araikinra soundaiye pattin muthalisaiya vaitha arumai oru creativity.
9. Oru niraiveraatha kaathalin mudivu tharkolaithaan ena mudiveduthu kaathalanum kaathaliyum maranathirku thayaraagum munbu oru amaithayana idathil avarkalain ithayath thudippai velikkatti enathu ithayathudippai(ennai pola evlo pero theriyavillai!!) athikap paduthiya 'Enna saptham intha neram' from Punnagai mannan. Antha song inraikku alla enraikku kettalum my heart beat goes up. Antha music..antha varikal...atha varnithaal naan romba unarchi vasap pattuviduven..so sathya or baskar please antha pattai varnithu Rajavai perumai paduthungal.
................Innum Varum..
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Fri Jan 9 19:14:38 EST 1998

another song which i shall always remember is the short piece from the film,sindhubhairavi once again.it is 'anandha nadanam aadinar'.how beautifully does it merge with the film .sivakumar starts singing when someone comes and tell him that his wife had made a suicide attempt and had fallen ino a well.sivakumar with tears in his eyes sings this song which ironically is set in a happy mood.
the contrast betweeen the song and the actual situation is brought out well and once again the collective genius of IR and KB is brought out in this song.i would say that this film in my opinion rates as the best amongst all the colour films that
KB has given.as a lover of carnatic music i was able to appreciate this film better and i think any rasiga would have experienced the same feeling after seeing the film.
vijay
From: Sameer (@ 206.217.81.242) on: Mon Jan 12 01:34:08 EST 1998

I am new to TFM. I have heard of Illayaraja a lot, but I have heard only a bit of his music. Can someone sugesst four or five of IR's greatest albums. I would appreciate it.
From: gopal (@ 1cust165.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Mon Jan 12 10:13:26 EST 1998

Welcome Sameer

To name four/five is tough! Yet, try to get some of the follwing albums/cassettes and listen to them:

1. AvathAram
2. Mouna RAgam
3. Agni NAtchathiram
4. KAdhalukku MariyAdhai
5. POOnchOlai
6. VaLLi
7. Dharmadurai
8. KadalOrakkavidhaigaL
9. Mudhal MariyAdhai
10. Veera
11. Nandhavana ThEru
12. pAttu PAda VAA
13. Oru Oorula Oru RAjakumAri
14. GOpura VAsalilE
15. EjamAn, Chinna Koundar...............
From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Mon Jan 12 13:20:41 EST 1998

16. How to Name it
17. Nothing but wind
18. India 24 hours
From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Mon Jan 12 18:19:27 EST 1998

Sameer:

My top 5 picks of IR which is really very difficult out of about 850 movies :)) would be:
Also which has a lot of creativity of IR,

1. Mudhal Mariyadhai (Village songs)
2. Sindhu Bhairavi (Classical based)
3. Mouna Raagam (Mix of classical & western)
4. Alaigal Oyivathillai (Mix of Classical & western)
5. Idhaya Kovil
From: Sameer (@ 206.217.81.242) on: Mon Jan 12 18:39:39 EST 1998

Thank You Gopal,Bhaskar,aruLarasan. I will see if I can get some of these albums.
From: Swaminathan (@ 129.107.22.165) on: Tue Jan 13 00:50:17 EST 1998

Hey guys you all have missed 'JOHHNY" from your list.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.252) on: Tue Jan 13 13:18:25 EST 1998

guys,
check out vikatan's review of the BGM in kathalukku mariyathai.kalakkivitaaram raja!
vijay
From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Tue Jan 13 16:00:32 EST 1998

Vijay,

Thanks for the info, I am subscribing to Vikatan here in US, could you please let me know in which issue.
From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Tue Jan 13 17:03:52 EST 1998

Bhaskar:

It's in the latest issue of Ananta vikatan. Here is the URL:

http://www.vikatan.com/3_1_98/vimarsan.htm
From: malai (@ 167.16.55.101) on: Tue Jan 13 17:26:30 EST 1998

no one has mentioned about the bit songs in rajaathi raja & veera

aathukkulla aathi maram...

adi panthalila thoonkukeera...

also i have to tell about the song in avatharam

enna anne..akkavu munnadi...
thalatha vera potteengala..

oru koondumani kullunguthadi..
like this
karakattaa kaaran
nattupura pattu
aavaaram poo
aathmaa

also i am very much impressed of the old songs

Ilamaiyenum poongatru...(pagalil oru iravu)
poonaram poovaram...

chinna poraa onroo yenna kannavinil..(?)

soorkagam madhu vile..(sattam en kaiyil)

yelisaai geethame ennakoru geevan..(rasigan oru rasigai)
From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Tue Jan 13 19:29:31 EST 1998

malai:

'Rasigan oru rasigai' scored by Ravindran not by IR.
From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Wed Jan 14 11:47:26 EST 1998

MPR:

Thanks for the Info.

ALL:
Idho Tamizh English transliteration seidha andha varigal for people who cannot read tamizh fonts.

Fasilukku balamaana valakkaram Ilayaraaja, Inimaiyaana thaalaatta vaa paadal mattumillaamal Vevaeru soozhnilaigalil Emotion-galukku yaerppa theme music-kkai avar kaiaandirukkum vidham asatthal! tanira, padam muzhukka pinnani isaiyil indha genious-idamirundhu velipattirukkum jeevanadhi director-ukku jeeva-naadi! Mukkiyamaaga kadaisiyil srividya, unga ponnaik kuduthudunga... endru kaetta vinaadiyil, pinnaniyil silirippaana inba adhirchii niraindha oru stroke, ore oru stroke - kaatchiyin muzhu theeviratthai yennamai velipaduthugiradhu!
From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Wed Jan 14 11:48:01 EST 1998

Closing Italics
From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Wed Jan 14 21:55:20 EST 1998

I do not know whether this falls under the definition of creativity or not here . But the song "Paaramal paartha nenjam" (poonthotta kavalkaaran ) immediately comes to my mind. I like the song very much. The special aspect abt this song is it starts and ends with the same hum - an excellent arrangement . If u just listen to that hum in the beginning of the song and at the end of the song , ther's absolutely no difference., EXCEPT that the opening peice starts mild in volume and increases in intensity and the closing hum slowly dimnishes to a mild one and vanishes. A GREAT SONG . Excellent lyrics also.

I do not think IR did this technique to any other song. Did he .??

The only other song i can think of in this pattern is ARR's muquabula in Kaathalan. It starts with that Ole Ole and ends with the same thing, exactly the same pattern in the IR song i mentioned above.?

Are there any other songs like this.??
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Thu Jan 15 01:21:21 EST 1998

"poove semboove" from sollath thudikuthu manasu by KJY starts and ends with the same flute piece .it is a great song.IR is supposed to have used all the instruments he had in that song.an evergreen melody.

BTW,'aavarampoo aarezhunala' from achamillai achamilai ,with music by narasimhan starts and ends with the same humming and is another intense ,melodious song which immediately came to my mind when the same humming before and after the song was mentioned by MSK.i think there might be one or two more and iam trying to recollect...
vijay
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tk05.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Jan 15 18:11:24 EST 1998

Arimugam:

Ennudaya CD archives-lerndhu eduthu indha paadal poduvadharkku nEram aagivittadhu :)

Ungalukkaaga indha paadal lyrics and description :))

Enakkum indha paadal heart beat-aa konjam increase seidhu vittuvidum :))
Padam: Punnagai Mannan
Paadiyavar: SPB
Lyrics : Vaali ??

Enna sattham indha naeram kuyilin oliyaayi
Enna sattham indha naeram nadhiyin oliyayi

Kiligal muttham tharudhaaa Adhanaal sattham varudhaa
Adadaaaaaaa......

Enna sattham indha naeram kuyilin oliyaayi
Enna sattham indha naeram nadhiyin oliyayi

Interlude: Beautiful flute mixed with Sax.

Kannathil muthathin eeram Adhu kaayavillaiyae
Kanngalil yaenandha kanner adhu yaaraalae

Kanniyin kazhuthai paarthaal manamaagavillaiyae
Kaadhalan madiyil poothaal oru poo pOle
Mannavanae un vizhiyaal pen vizhiyai moodu
Aadharavai saindhu vittaaal Aaariraro paadu
Aariraro ivar yaar evarO Badhil solvaar yaaro

Enna sattham indha naeram kuyilin oliyaayi
Enna sattham indha naeram nadhiyin oliyaayi
Kiligal muttham tharudhaaa Adhanaal sattham varudhaa
Adadaaaaaaa......

Enna sattham indha naeram kuyilin oliyaayi
Enna sattham indha naeram nadhiyin oliyayi

Interlude : Strings with percussion and beautiful Sax

Koodhalil nuzhaindha kaigal Oru kolam pOdudho
Thannilai marandha penmai Adhai thaangadhooo
Udhattil thudikkum Oosai Adhu ularndhu pOnadhO
Ullangal thudikkum Oosai isaiyaagadhooo

Mangai eval vai thirandhaal malligai pooo vaasam
Odaielllam pen peyarai uchharithe pesum
Yaar ivargal iru poonguyilgal Ilankaadhal maangal

Enna sattham indha naeram kuyilin oliyaayi
Enna sattham indha naeram nadhiyin oliyayi
From: RAJAN (@ proxy-147.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on: Thu Jan 15 22:13:51 EST 1998

Bhaskar:
lyrics by vairamuthu.
From: T.Madhan (@ 202.41.117.3) on: Fri Jan 16 08:43:54 EST 1998

Friends,

Examples for IR's creativity -

1. Nazar and Kamal chase scene in the climax of "Thevar Magan" - a cello plays in an undertone as a backdrop with a set of violins overlapping it - thru'out that movie, IR's BGM is reminescent of some unknown feeling of fear - anticipation of something violent and sad.

2. Kamal goes to see Amala in " Sathyaa " - they have an indifference and Amala doesn't want to talk to or see Kamal - as Kamal tries to see her with the wall in between, a single violin is played - i can't describe it here - listen to it and then give your opinion.

3. The song " Aridhaaratha poosikolla asai " from " Avadhaaram " - while the song itself beautifully mereges with the situation, the following lines by S.Janaki _( in the movie it is Revathy ) ,

" koothhaadi pozhappu yellaam ,

andha kaathhaaadi padum paadu,

adi aathhaaadi vetka kedu "

When this line is being sung, the music is underplayed with a bass guitar and flute played in such a way as to bring out the SAD PLIGHT OF those practising therukkoothhu . Listen to this song carefully , then you keep what I have written above in mind and you will understand.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.119) on: Sun Jan 18 03:56:30 EST 1998

i would like to add 'ponveyilil' from yatramozhi.
fantastic song.the starting synth? piece is beautiful,the first interlude music is a sneak preview of the symphony.the song is a haunting melody.this song is an example of how chorus should be used effectively in songs.i was compelled to hear this song about 8 times continuously and still could not have enough of it.thanx to MPR for posting the song.one of the best or i can say the best from raaja in recent times.i wonder how the BGM for this film is?lucky mallus.
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-te01.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jan 18 14:07:26 EST 1998

Vijay,

Is Yathramozhi a new movie ? Where can I get the cassette of this movie ? I do not want to miss any melody of IR.
From: Raja Mahadevan (@ draco.eisi.com) on: Wed Jan 21 12:57:25 EST 1998

I remember the instrumental piece (probably a synthesizer ) from Aanandham Aanandham Nee Thandadhu sung by Janaki from Pootadha Pootukkal. Those of you who saw the movie will remember just before the song begins, the heroine's husband comes home with the good news that his wife is pregnant - and then director mahendran cuts to a sea shore with jagged rocks with the water smashing and IR takes over with the song... Outstanding is the word..

Nandri.. Raja
From: Rajesh (@ pdxss902.jf.intel.com) on: Wed Jan 21 13:34:07 EST 1998

Bhaskar,

I am not sure if Yatra mozhi is available in US. I
asked my friends to mail me the casette from India. You will love the songs. Most of the songs
are really good. Song sung by Ilayaraja for a
sad situation is a haunting melody. There is also
a Kannada movie called Gulabi by Ilayaraja. Both
these casettes were released a few months back.
IR is making me listen to all languages.
From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Wed Jan 21 15:37:26 EST 1998

In yAthrA mozhi, I heard MSV singing under IR in malayalam for the first time. For IR's voice and MSV voice comparisons, this is good. Both of them sing the same song.

IR seems to have different yardsticks for TFM and MFM. He has in recent times never scored music like this for TFM. In yAthrA mozhi, IR does not dominate with orchestral arrangements. The emphasis is on melody - and they are superb. In a way these songs are more MSV-like than IR-like.
From: Satish (@ caesar-224.cs.umn.edu) on: Wed Jan 21 17:37:06 EST 1998

pg,

Isn't this song that both MSV and IR sing ("yeri kanaL kaatril"), a copy of some old IR's song? I remember a song in IR's voice sounding exactly like this one. Don't remember which one.
So, in MFM it might very well be his own "old yardstick"..
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Wed Jan 21 18:47:48 EST 1998

guys,
i misssed the initial reviews on guru.can anyone elaborate on the songs in guru.i heard that raja's creativity is in full force in all the songs.is it better than yaatramozhi?

vijay
From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Wed Jan 21 21:36:05 EST 1998

Yathra Mozhi CD is available in H&M - Check their
web page. They also carry IR's Kannada hit - I forgot the name - Nammoora something ..
From: Rajesh (@ pdxss902.jf.intel.com) on: Wed Jan 21 22:08:21 EST 1998

Vijay

I personally feel Guru songs are better than Yatra
Mozhi. This does not mean YM is not that good. Both are excellent but if u listen to both you will realize that IR has concentrated a lot on
interludes too in Guru. Remember this is the film
for which he got 5 musicians from Hungary. There
are 5 songs in Guru. It is a must buy for any
music lover. I got it only 2 days back from India.
I will leave someone who has heard Guru more times
to write a review about it
From: Bhaskar (@ 205.147.245.41) on: Thu Jan 22 13:04:42 EST 1998

Rajesh:

Thanks for your info on Yathra Mozhi, from the postings above I am guessing that it is a Malayalam movie. BTW, Guru has an excellent song which goes something like this Guru Charam, naadha, guru vadi charanam This is a beatiful melody with excellent orchestration.

MSK:

The Kannada movie is : Nammora Mandhaara Hoove
There is another called Prema raaga haadu gelathi with two out-of-the world songs.
From: Rajesh (@ pdxss902.jf.intel.com) on: Thu Jan 22 15:49:12 EST 1998

Bhaskar

You are 100% right. Guru charanam song in Guru
is a beautiful melody. I get carried away with that song. The interludes in MG Sreekumar song is too good. Yatra mozhi is a malayalam movie.

I heard Vasuki songs. It may be in Madras bashai
but I can feel the situations and IR jalliya
music potturikaraar. Somehow whenever I listen to
those songs I feel homesick. The songs do have
an indianness(madrasness) mainly bcos of the language and I feel that the songs would aptly fit
a story with such a background
From: Arun (@ m31.pppmad.vsnl.net.in) on: Fri Jan 30 10:19:31 EST 1998

Hi,

i am new to TFM.i would like to share a
few thoughts with you.

The movie NINAIVELLAM NITHYA had excellent music by Illayaraja.The song "Panivizhum malar vanam " is an absolute treat to the ears.This song which sounds like western/light music was composed based on the 35th Melakarta ragam named Chalanaattai.Though the song
is based on such a rare raga it has completely shed its classical origin thereby excellently suiting a romantic duet.therein lies the genius of Illayaraja.This is certainly one of the great melody numbers of 80's.

Any comments?

There are hundreds of raja's immortal melodies.so i will be posting them regularly in the future.
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tq01.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Feb 1 11:29:28 EST 1998

Arun:

There are already 2 Arun's in this TFMDF :-)))
Viz., America Arun and Malaysia Arun.

So identify yourself with a prefix. Maybe India Arun since I see VSNL in your address or which ever you may prefer.

As you said the above song in Ninaivellam Nitya is a great number by Ilayaraja. He has used the intruments so creative to make it fit into classical as well as a western kind of music.

Looking forward for your postings in the future :-)
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219) on: Sun Feb 1 12:48:58 EST 1998

bhaskar,
did u get my mail about the guru cassette?no replies from u so far.

vijay
From: Bhaskar (@ 205.147.245.41) on: Sun Feb 1 19:22:33 EST 1998

Vijay:

Mail anuppuneengala ? Eppo anuppuneenga, Varavae illaiyae !

Marubadiyum anuppunga. For the Email-Id click on my name.
From: gOpAl (@ 1cust42.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Tue Feb 3 09:47:24 EST 1998

I received this info from Gopi Santhanam. Thanx Gopi
************************************************
SuSree Lekha: A sudden impact

When Rajendra Prasad was showering compliments on Sree Lekha
at the Navvulata audio-release function, one felt he was over-doing
his bit. But after listening to her songs, especially E Vela Anni
Vidhala...., you are convinced that this young lady means serious
business. Her solo-humming of tunes in Tajmahal and Dharmachakram
broke records and today this shy and reticent music director is touted
as the most versatile and creative person in the film industry.
Excerpts from a conversation with Sree Lekha:

Tell us something about your childhood experiences.
I was born in Raichur in Karnataka and when I was five years old, my
parents bought me a cassette from the Telugu film Shankarabharanam.
I watched the songs over and again. I was so obsessed with them that I
remember singing them every time, even in the bathroom. I didn't know
what play-back singing was all about and I was of the impression that
Somayajulu sang those keertanas. He became my hero and I had this
desire to meet him and learn music from him. My parents never took me
seriously. One day S P Balasubramanyam's photograph appeared in the
newspapers and my parents told me that he was the man who sang the
songs for Sankarabharanam and not Somayajulu. I immediately packed my
clothes and ran away to the railway station to catch the Madras
Express. Some people who recognised me bought me home. My uncle
(Keeravani's father) is a story writer and a director. So we all
shifted to Madras because he was making a film.

Did you finally meet SPB?
Yes. Those days Keeravani used to work with Chakravarthy as an
assistant. Keeravani used to do all the work for Chakravarthy and
people would queue up in cars early morning and I would watch my
brother discuss and play music. He would be very busy with the
harmonium and only on Sundays he would allow me to use it. Instead of
sarigamalu I learnt film music. My brother after some time realised my
interest in music and thought I picked up the notes well. I learnt
Soundarylahari and I would sit in front of the Devi and pick 10 ragas.
I would sing five slokhas in different ragas changing the tunes. In
two years time I realised that I had this creativity in me and I
finally chose music as my career.

Who are your favourite singers?
I appreciate S P Balasubramanyam, Chitra, A R Rehman's latest songs.
Illayaraja is the best. If he wants he can overtake A R Rehman but he
is not interested in proving things to anyone. Ilayaraja follows his
own style. He says "Come to me only if you like my music". He doesn't
make music for people. He makes music for us to hear.

What do you do in your spare time?
I compose music, sing, play carroms. I work for 20 hours. When I am
not working, I'm sleeping for 20 hours.

What do you like about Illayaraja's music?
Illayaraja is my inspiration. I like his melody, orchestra and mixing.
So far I haven't had a chance to sing for him but I did sing for sons
Karthik Raja and Shankar Raja. Illayaraja explains and understands
situations well and his approach to musicians, directors and producers
is worth watching. I have learnt from him why one uses flute and sitar
for pathos and also the technique of giving background score for
picture re-recording. I want Lata Mangeshkar to sing for the music I
compose. That's my ultimate wish.

Can you tell us some films which have become hits on account of music?
Yes, I have sung for Pelli Sandadi, Dharmachakram and Tajmahal. I also
sang in Malayalam, Bengali and Hindi. My nasal accent is thin and
shakey. When someone else sings my song, I get this feeling that I
could have done a better job. At that time I just don't like my voice.
I make sure that I drink some hot water before singing.

How many songs have you recorded so far?
I have sung 150 film songs, 50 dubbing and 100 devotional songs. I
always insist on singing decent songs. I know my drawbacks and I
choose only those that suit my voice. I can sing western melody also
but I just can't get myself to sing folk songs. I'm more known for
solo humming. It is imperative that I experiment with tunes.

How do you get along with your colleagues, especially when you need to
direct seniors?
They all have tremendous ego problems but so far I have never been at
the receiving end. Because I'm young, they listen to my tunes. First I
tell them to listen to me, and in case they aren't satisfied I ask
them to follow their own style. We exchange ideas. As far as my career
is concerned, I'm doing well and I'm very grateful to Mr Rama Naidu
for having given me a big break in Tajmahal. He's like my godfather.
*************************************************

East or West! Raaja is the best!!
From: Dhansekar (@ dajal.legato.com) on: Tue Feb 3 16:47:33 EST 1998

Bhaskar: Punnagai mannan's songs are all
written by Vairamutthu.

Probably, the last film vairamuthu
and IR toether
From: Bhaskar (@ 205.147.245.41) on: Tue Feb 3 19:52:46 EST 1998

Dhan:

Thanks for the Clarification and welcome to TFMDF :-))
From: Arun chander (@ m24.pppmad.vsnl.net.in) on: Thu Feb 5 08:11:42 EST 1998

Hi,

This is one of IR's most popular song of the 80's and one
of those rare songs where Acting,camreawork,music,lyrics,singing
everything is perfect.

The song is "Kanne kalaimaane" from
" Moonram Pirai ".What a wonderful song ! It is very difficult to decide
which is better in the song.Whether it is Kannadhasan's meaningful lyrics
or the soul-stirring singing of yesudas or the magnificent musical
score of Illayaraja.In this song the lyrics,singing and music blend to
present us with an immortal melody.This song should be certainly
there in the top 10 songs list of both yesudas and Illayaraja.

comments welcome.
From: gOpAl (@ 1cust172.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Fri Feb 6 14:49:53 EST 1998

Arun
yenna comments ezhudharadhu? we can only add to your comments. Great song. Any time, any place, you can enjoy that song. Whenever I listen to this song, I had only one wish. Kaviyarasu must have written at least a dozen more songs for IR!!
From: Dhan (@ dajal.legato.com) on: Fri Feb 6 15:30:47 EST 1998

Arun:

Incidentaly, kannae kalaimaanae...was the
last song written by Kannadaasan for tamil
movies. Moondram pirai also carries one
more heavy weight: poongaatru pudhidhaanadhu by KJ

And the one with longest pallavi(!)...
vaanegum thangavinmeengal...by Vairamuthu/SPB/SJ
visual treat by Balu Mahendra
From: sathya (@ client-151-200-125-83.bellatlantic.net) on: Sun Feb 15 09:37:32 EST 1998

stay
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tb04.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Feb 15 18:00:45 EST 1998

Sathya:

Naan aruvama yaarO yeadho post seidhu irukkaanga-nnu odi vandhu paarthaa, Enna idhu ippadi yaemathiteenga, indha thread Archives pOividakoodathendru oru stay order vEru pOttuirukeengalae!

:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
From: SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-125-85.bellatlantic.net) on: Mon Feb 16 12:54:29 EST 1998

I am not sure anybody has talked about Hummings. One of the best hummings put by Ilayaraja is from Kilakku Vaasal.

Song : Vanthathe Kungumam

Karthik endorses Revathi's love and puts Kungumam on his Netri. Raja starts his Humming and song starts with high tempo. No other than the humming could have expressed Revathi character's feelings better. You have to watch the film rather than simply hearing the song.
From: Gokul (@ p1.echostar.com) on: Tue Feb 17 20:20:24 EST 1998

Kathalukku Mariyathai:

It has always been IR's style to provide variations of a song's tune as effective BGM.
Eg Chinna Thayaval in Dalapathy,
ThenPaanDi Cheemaiyeley etc.

Latest is KM where so many beautiful variations
of "Ennai Thalaata" are woven into the BGM. Especially there is a beautiful one, When Vijay
enters the Hut where Shalini is to change into
kalyana pudavai.

Also the BGM in the Climax is simply superb.
From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Wed Feb 18 13:52:38 EST 1998

Hi Sathya,

I have not watched the movie Kizhakku VAasal but I could immediately remember the humming for the song as I used hear the song so many times just for that !

How about the humming in "en veetu jannal etti" from Raman Abdulla ? It is really great.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Wed Feb 18 18:20:05 EST 1998

some other great 'humming' pieces:

kanmaniye kaadhal -from 6 till 60

aagaya gangai-dharma yudham(humming by SJ)
second interlude

maasi maasam-dharma durai

ennulle ennulle- valli

o priya priya-idhayathai thirudathe
(one of the greatest humming pieces i have ever heard in the first interlude)

deiveega ragam-jenci-short humming but haunting

meenkodi theril-karumbu vil(2 great pieces)

vijay
From: SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-126-74.bellatlantic.net) on: Thu Feb 19 18:19:57 EST 1998

Has anybody noticed a magic humming in the song "RAJA RAJATHAN" from "ORU OORLA ORU RAJAKUMARI". No Parallel!!! Due to the failure of Film songs went unnoticed.

Another great one (All Time best?) I feel is from panner pushabngal. Song "POONTHALIRAADA". Humming spreads all thru the song.

I see a lot of rasigargal for "VALLI". Another superb humming from the song "KUKKUKKOO". The chorus goes with high tempo.
From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Fri Feb 20 11:50:36 EST 1998

Yesterday I was listening 'kanmani' songs. In 'Asai idhayam' sung by Malaysia vasudevan and S.Janaki, the interludes are very unique and proving the Maestro is one and only. First interlude starts with violin and ends with flute and guitar like instrument, and in the second, the piece starts with where it ended in the first interlude and ends with violin. Awesome work by IR, has anybody noticed this before? Any other songs have this kind of interludes? Please write to me.
From: MSK (@ dhcp-877019741.qualcomm.com) on: Fri Feb 20 13:02:36 EST 1998

MPR .,

U have hit on the right movie. kanmani has amazing songs. (also a few light weights like " Madisaar pudavai etc " ). Netru vantha kaatru is Excellent !! No other song like this b4. If anyone has not listened to this i recommend this song very much. IR struggles to keep pace with SJ in this song. But still this is a Gem.

Coming to "Asai Ithayam " song, there is a somewhat similar song in Enga Mudhalali ( a Vijayakanth movie ) -it starts like " Kollimalai chaaralile . Kooda kaathu veesaiyile.. "). This is another song with great drum beat interludes..

BTW, i just recvd the Yathramozhi and Veera thaalattu . (yaathramozhi CD has 2 bonus songs from Kaalapani :-)
From: SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-125-246.bellatlantic.net) on: Fri Feb 20 15:03:50 EST 1998

We know Ilayaraja initiated the trend using the key songs of the film as BGM. In some films we can observe him using many songs as BGM for different situations. Recently I saw "KADHALUKKU MARIATHAI". He used 4 songs for BGM.

1. Before Shalini endorses Vijay's love, the song "Oh baby"(Rather its starting humming) is used as BGM.

2. Once they started loving, all sensations between them are BGMed by "ENNAI THALATTA VARUVAAYA". The song has been performed in almost all instruments and chorus for different situations.

3. For all sensations in Shalini's family, Raja used their family song "ANANTHA KUYIL" as BGM.

4. AMAZINGLY the Dappanguththu song "AYYA VOODU" is used as sensational BGM for Manivannan who sings that song in the film. I could not imagine a Dappanguththu can be used for sensation. Raja can only do.

5. CLIMAX - All families are together. Film does not have a common song for all. So Raja pongi Ezhunthu oru Rajaangame Nadaththi Vittar. You can see the description of that BGM in Vikatan.

Thamil nattula first Time BGM kkaga, Makkal Kai Thatturangalam. Pullarikkuthu!
From: SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-125-246.bellatlantic.net) on: Fri Feb 20 15:04:01 EST 1998

We know Ilayaraja initiated the trend using the key songs of the film as BGM. In some films we can observe him using many songs as BGM for different situations. Recently I saw "KADHALUKKU MARIATHAI". He used 4 songs for BGM.

1. Before Shalini endorses Vijay's love, the song "Oh baby"(Rather its starting humming) is used as BGM.

2. Once they started loving, all sensations between them are BGMed by "ENNAI THALATTA VARUVAAYA". The song has been performed in almost all instruments and chorus for different situations.

3. For all sensations in Shalini's family, Raja used their family song "ANANTHA KUYIL" as BGM.

4. AMAZINGLY the Dappanguththu song "AYYA VOODU" is used as sensational BGM for Manivannan who sings that song in the film. I could not imagine a Dappanguththu can be used for sensation. Raja can only do.

5. CLIMAX - All families are together. Film does not have a common song for all. So Raja pongi Ezhunthu oru Rajaangame Nadaththi Vittar. You can see the description of that BGM in Vikatan.

Thamil nattula first Time BGM kkaga, Makkal Kai Thatturangalam. Pullarikkuthu!
From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Fri Feb 20 23:21:34 EST 1998

Satya:
Neengal kooRiyadhu noorRukku nooRu unmai.

I just saw the movie last week. The BGM of MK
is really super. Esp. in the climax, no dialogue
for few minutes. Only Raja's Durbar. He
makes us to feel the feelings of each character
with the few minutes of BGM. The un-imaginable BGM,
when srividya expresses her view and Shalini's
mother accepting that. The Burst of emotion
represented in music made
me to shed some tears in joy. What is that
violin melody.Reminds me some kruthi. Can't
remember what rAgA was that? It sounded like
"Mangalam suba mangalam" in a concert.
Anybody can identify?

Raja Raja thAn.

anbudan
mannAru
From: mannAru (@ ns.arraycomm.com) on: Fri Feb 20 23:30:37 EST 1998

Does anybody remember the song, "mAlaiyil yArO
mana dhodu pEsa" from Kshatrian. Oh man! what
a song. It still haunts me. I have listened at
least 10 times in the last week end. U can feel
the "yEkkam" in the song.

Another haunting song, from udaya geetham, "pAdu
nilAvE", Beautiful interludes. Balu and SJ
had done a great job. See the change in the
interlude and orchestration when Balu
joins in the 2nd stanza.

U listen every time, u can notice a new
stuff there. That is IR.

anbudan
mannAru
From: SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-127-206.bellatlantic.net) on: Sat Feb 21 08:46:11 EST 1998

Good observation Mannaru, In "PAADU NILAVE", the first interlude is meant for a sensation and once Mohan responds to Revathi, the second interlude turns out to be a duet and their enthu and tempo were shown in the interlude. It is amazing whether Raja has done it before the song was picturised.
The song "Maalaiyil", I heard directly in the film "SATHRIYAN". We could not believe a "DEVAGANAM" passing into the years. It was one of the songs which got the people atv the first hearing.
There is a song in "VANAJA GIRIJA", starting like "UNNAI VIDA MATTEN". It is comaparable to Maalaiyil Yaarao. Anybody listened to it. Due to the films little success, the song went unnoticed.
From: RAJAN (@ proxy-153.iap.bryant.webtv.net) on: Sat Feb 21 10:32:05 EST 1998

SATHIYA:

The song from "VANAJA GIRIJA" is "Unnai ethir paarthean... Thendralidam keattean..." Wow! really a superb song! Also I like the another song from this movie is "Munnam seitha thavam..."
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Sat Feb 21 18:05:11 EST 1998

as we can see swarnalatha has sung some of her best nos. under IR.hope that she remembers to mention him in interviews.i have never seen her mentioning about IR's ability in any of the interviews.ditto,with prabudeva.

vijay
From: venus (@ 185.san-francisco-08.ca.dial-access.att.net) on: Sat Feb 21 23:24:38 EST 1998

I would like to mention some of the hummming from IR's composition.

I am here for the first time in this thread.

Rasavae unnai naan enni than- thani kattu raja
-----------------------------
excellent humming competes with the orchestration oru jugal bandhiya nadathitar
Dhum dhudhum dhum dhudhum
(this is the basic rythm of the whole song)

Allam pol vellam pol - ezhamaan
-------------------------------
Dhum dhum dhum dhudhuum
dhum dhum thum ....
wow excellent. Rajini iyya eppdi ungallukku rajavae vida manasu vandhadhu

Chinna rasavae-valter vetri vell
--------------
jimku jikku chikkucha .....
awesome man.
(nichiyamaga adith thondail irunthu kath thavillai !)
irunthallum supera irrukku.
From: pg (@ client-116-136.bellatlantic.net) on: Sun Feb 22 08:18:58 EST 1998

Talk about humming, haunting humming from sigappu rojakkaL L especially in 'indha minminkku kaNNil oru' the beginning of the song is marvellous ! WHo is the singer - it can't be Kamal. 'ninaiVo oru paravai' also has some superb use of humming.
From: SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-125-173.bellatlantic.net) on: Sun Feb 22 10:05:06 EST 1998

It is malasia and Janaki. As PG said the starting of song "Minminikku" is amazing and unique. PG, are you from D.C. or VA.
From: SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-125-173.bellatlantic.net) on: Sun Feb 22 10:05:15 EST 1998

It is malasia and Janaki. As PG said the starting of song "Minminikku" is amazing and unique. PG, are you from D.C. or VA.
From: pg (@ client-116-148.bellatlantic.net) on: Sun Feb 22 10:58:52 EST 1998

I am from NJ (Edison)
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.214) on: Sun Feb 22 16:47:00 EST 1998

the beautiful part of the song 'indha minminikku' is that the same humming at the beginning of the song if sung slowly can sound like a pathos.that is the tune is such that it can be used both in a happy and sad occasion.the song 'april meyile' from idhayam also has the same effect.it has a
touch of melancholy to it and yet it can be used for a happy occasion when sung faster.IR can only do it!try singing these 2 pices slower and u'll realise what i said.

vijay
From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Sun Feb 22 21:52:24 EST 1998

Talking about humming, just for the records, if no one else has
already mentioned it, all songs in gIthAnjali (nAma reNdu pErum
Ura vittu OdillAmA; enna OdillAmAvA; illa OdiyO nadandhO, raillayO
on vasadhi padi pOlAm) have some form of chorus humming.
From: Bhaskar (@ 205.147.245.41) on: Mon Feb 23 13:05:31 EST 1998

aruL & Vijay:

Guru and IR Hits cassettes is on the way :-)))
From: SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-126-11.bellatlantic.net) on: Wed Feb 25 01:14:06 EST 1998

Bhaskar,
I have a friend who is an Associate director in Madras, currently working in a film called "Manasukkul Varalama". He has contacts with a friend who in turn has contacts with IR circle. I told him about TFM IR Rasigargal. His friend requested copies of IR Puranangal so that he can show it to Raja some time. I refined my "IR - All time best Musician" thread and recomposed it. Also I printed this thread(Around 40 pages) and sent both to him. He said he will be giving it to Raja thru his friend as soon as possible and promised to get a feedback to us from Raja.
From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tp01.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Feb 25 21:54:57 EST 1998

Sathya:

Enna ippadi manasa jillunnu kulira vaikkureenga. Ungalukku migavum Nandri. Aanaalum indha thread-aa indha alavukku develop seidha anaivarukkum ennoda nandrigal.

Anbudan
Bhaskar
From: Rajesh (@ pdxss902.jf.intel.com) on: Wed Feb 25 22:27:58 EST 1998

Sathya,

kalakiteenga ponga
From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on: Sun Mar 1 06:21:10 EST 1998

Satya: Any progress?

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