Topic started by Radhai (@ h32be.s86b1.baynetworks.com) on Thu Oct 7 13:21:51 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Time and again, I have wondered why Vaali is not as successful as Kannadasan & Vairamuthu. If critics say his songs are not as catchy as the other two lyricists' I will not agree as he has lasted for more than 35 years now.
He has written some great songs for MGR which MGR used for his political entry. (Something similar to what VM has been doing for Rajanikanth for quite sometime now)
Go ahead give your views. Do u feel he has been unlucky or do u feel he deserves nothing more than what he is now?
Responses:
- From: V. balaji (@ webproxy03qfe0.sbi.com)
on: Thu Oct 7 16:42:27 EDT 1999
Radhai:
I don't know how you came to a conclusion that Vaali is/was not successful.
I am sure Vaali must have written more songs for IR than any other lyricist(?) including Gangai Amaran and many of them are still lingering in our minds.
As you have noted he has written to very many MGR songs. He has also written to lot of Shivaji hits especially A.C.Thirulokchander's films.
He has contributed to the success of many V. Kumar's songs (including all KB films).
Vaali is a great writer too and has come with some excellent stage dramas. He has also enjoyed some acting stints in TV and films.
He is one writer who can write any song suiting to any mood in a film.
His lasting power shows how successful he is. Why bother what some of his critics say.
V. Balaji
- From: bb (@ wolf.crhc.uiuc.edu)
on: Thu Oct 7 17:53:03 EDT 1999
vaali as a poet is comparable to KD and VM. his non-filmy works are much better than those of VM. he has probably written most number of songs till now..his aaLumai of thamizh (read paaNdavar bhoomi) is great!
- From: Radhai (@ h32be.s86b1.baynetworks.com)
on: Thu Oct 7 18:16:36 EDT 1999
You are right guys. What I am saying is wherever there is a discussion forum, it has always been Kannadasan vs Vairamuthu. He is still referred as Kavignar which even a newcomer (no harm meant) like Pazhani Bharathi carries before his name. His works on both the epics "Avathara Purushan" and Paandavar Bhoomi" is good. Still he has never become an Arasavaikkavignar. Even MGR failed to felicitate him with that... That made me feel he has been quite unlucky.
- From: Dorai (@ gateway7.ey.com)
on: Thu Oct 7 20:25:51 EDT 1999
Vaali is a great poet way better than VM or any modern poets but behind Kannadasan. To remind some of his best tamil cine lyrics
1. Madurai il Parantha Meen Kodiai Un Kangallil Kandene...
2. Jananee...Jananne...
3. Amma Enrazhaikatha Uyirillaye...
4. Naanaga Naan Illai Thaye... (By Vaali????)
and so on.
He simply excels in songs comparing a female with
different things. He has enormous talents and does not do self publicity. Hence, he is not in the fore-front of the race.
- From: Radhai (@ h32be.s86b1.baynetworks.com)
on: Fri Oct 8 13:06:13 EDT 1999
Naanaaga Naan illai... is by Vaali Dorai. Whether it is an old song like 'Avalukkum thamizh endru.., kannan varuvaan kadhai solluvaan, moondru thamizh thondriyathum unnidamo, Kanaakkaanum kangal mell' or a new song like 'Endhan nenjil neengaatha, Enai kaana villaiye netrodu, Thoongatha vizhigal rendu, un madhamaa en madhamaa ' Vaali has excelled..
I guess this would be the right point to mention a story behind the song 'Avalukkum thamizh endru..' When TMS heard the song 'thamizhukkum amudhendru...' rendered by P. Susheela, he expressed the wish to sing a similar song on those lines. That is when Vaali penned the lyrics.
- From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112)
on: Fri Oct 8 15:23:52 EDT 1999
just a doubt : "avaLukkum thamizh endru pEr" - is it by vaali ? I have this question because, "thmizhukkum amudhendru pEr" is by bhaarathidhaasan. somebody clarify, please.
perhaps the best of vaali IMO are:
(1) oh veNNila
(2) thEnE thenpaaNdi meene (especially the line thaazam poovai dhoorma vaiththaal..)
(3) Nalam vaazha
IMO, vaali has concentrated much in the rhyming section of the song rather than the content. Most of the songs are good to hear but have little to convey. Just a good "kOrvai" of phrases in a poetic and appreciative manner, IMO.
- From: Radhai (@ h32be.s86b1.baynetworks.com)
on: Fri Oct 8 16:31:31 EDT 1999
MS, U are right. Thamizhukkum amudhendru is by Bharathidasan. "Avalukkum thamizh" is by Vaali. I am positive. It is from the movie "Panchavarnakkili"
I quite like all his songs from Mahanadhi too.
- From: Balaji Venkatesan (@ gamma.nsf.gov)
on: Fri Oct 8 17:37:22 EDT 1999
Hey Radhai,
If you think making a lot of money is success, then we cannot say who among these three was the most successful. There are many complexities like time value of money are involoved. More over, it won't be nice to do research on that.
But if you think popularity is success,obviously Vaali is not as successful as VM or KD.
I can guess two reasons for this.
a. Vaali doesn't have any political affiliation unlike the other two. This might be a factor for the media attention on those lyricists.
b. Vaali is media-shy and won't entertain publicity when compared to the other two.
Balaji Venkatesan
- From: bb (@ wolf.crhc.uiuc.edu)
on: Fri Oct 8 17:42:52 EDT 1999
balaji venkatesan, vaali did have political affiliation:-) read about how he attacked KD in m.g.r. mandra meetings in http://newtfmpage.com/ppp/kadhaigal.html
- From: Radhai (@ h32be.s86b1.baynetworks.com)
on: Fri Oct 8 18:10:43 EDT 1999
I quite agree with the second reason Balaji. He could have been media shy. He has had a close & good rapport with MGR. What has been quite amazing is that he didnt make use of it for his personal gains.
If you look at some of the instances, Vaali has never hesitated in pointing to MGR where he felt MGR went wrong.
- From: Jana (@ pppa31-resalecolumbus1-2r1168.saturn.bbn.com)
on: Fri Oct 8 19:23:43 EDT 1999
It is pathetic that lyricst like Vairamuthu is "Arasavai Kavignar" when you have somebody like Vaali who is rich in terms of experience and quality lyrics. Next to our Great Kannadasan, Vaali is the best lyricst we have. One of my Tamil Teachers used to give an example of how Vaali used a situation to write a song. During the days when Vaali was trying to enter into TFM, he approached Kannadasan as his assistant (this is a contradictory event what I read in Pazhayapaadalkal pakkam) he was denied that opportunity. So when he got his first chance in MGR film. He wrote this song to suite this situation:
"Malarukkuth thendral pagaiyaanaal
Malarnthida kathiravan thunaiyundu"
Malar is Vaali, Thendral is Kannadasan (at that time Kannadasan was running Thendral magazine or publication) and kathiravan is MGR (MGR was in DMK whose symbol is Rising Sun). I agree many of our kavignars have used many situations happened in their own life. Isn't it a good example of good lyricist. We do have many criticism on VM - Those days there was a big debate on the Song Andhi mazhai pozhikiradu (Raaja Paarvai) written by VM and in that he says "Indran thottathu mundiriye". If he is a good lyricst, then he could have easily made a meaningful word, but he never did. And he is now "Kaviyarasu or Kavignar" (May be Kaviyarasu for jumbling same words here and there and use it in his other songs)
- From: PPP viLakkam (@ 137.132.2.109)
on: Fri Oct 8 22:25:09 EDT 1999
Jana:
Interesting. But here is an excerpt taken from
Vaali's autobiography titled, "nAnum indha nootrANdum",
which goes against your theory..
(You need Murasu Anjal fonts to view this.)
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- From: Jana (@ pppa7-resalecolumbus1-2r1168.saturn.bbn.com)
on: Sun Oct 10 14:54:02 EDT 1999
Vilakkam:
You are right. This is what I metioned in bracket that this event is a contradictory to the one I read in "Pazhaiya Paadal pakkam" which you have produced.
- From: Radhai (@ h32be.s86b1.baynetworks.com)
on: Mon Oct 11 15:04:45 EDT 1999
Can you tell me where I can get this book "Indha Nootraandum Naanum" from?
-Radhai
- From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217)
on: Mon Oct 11 15:43:54 EDT 1999
There's unjustified VM bashing going on here. Praise Vaali for his golden oldies, he deserves it. But in the 80s he was lucky to have written good lyrics for more than 10 movies. I feel Vaali's contempt for the cine world really showed in the lackluster stuff he put out for post-VM IR songs. I cite him as one of the key reasons in eroding the rich vernacular in IR songs.
VM does write awful stuff today, but he still puts out enough good songs to garner the title of a poet (Nilave Va, En Swasak Katrae, Uyirae... stand testimony). There's an interesting article on the making of a song that came out in Kumudham some weeks ago. That shows plainly how many hands get on and corrupt the lyrics in a song.
- From: V. Balaji (@ webproxy04qfe0.sbi.com)
on: Mon Oct 11 16:49:41 EDT 1999
Udhaya:
"Lucky.."?????
"I cite him as one of the key reasons in eroding the rich vernacular in IR songs"
How sad people make such outrageous statements!!! Vaali must have written many songs for IR before he reached his "SUPERSTAR" status. BY your logic, does it mean he is one of the key reasons for his success?
Some samples of Vaali-IR combo
pre VM-IR period: Azhage Unnai Aradhikkiren
Illamai Oonjaladugirathu
Vm-IR period: Mouna Raagam (A rare film with woderful lyrics)
post VM-IR period: Mahaanadhi
chinna Thambi
Sure, Vaali has not gone around mouthing bad
comments about music directors he has problem with (some one has commented previously that he did not yearn for publicity).
"... That shows plainly how manyhands get on and corrupt the lyrics in a song " -- shouldn't that be true for Vaali's songs also????
Balaji
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