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Tamil Film Music Cateogories

Topic started by Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on Tue Mar 10 17:54:59 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I want all of us to participate in a healthy discussion to come up with reasonable definition of different kinds of music cateogories - thereby shedding more light to unexplored areas of Tamil Film Music as it is becoming more and more "international" :-) by the day. This process is simply to increase the knowledge base.

Cateogories that come to my mind are Carnatic, Western Classical, Jazz, Fusion, Flamenco, New age etc. -- :-) so many terms and so little definition.

As for Carnatic and Western Classical, their foundations lie basically in melody and harmony based approaches to music.

What are the foundations of other kinds of music ?
Are they based on the use of certain kind of instruments ?

Since TFM-DF consists of varied set of people with inclinations towards different musical tastes as well I am hoping a lot of them to contribute for this article

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Sat Mar 28 20:09:35 EST 1998
  
  As far as I know, counterpoint is the form of music where two melodies are
  plyaed at the same time. The earliest one used in TFM is the interlude of
  
  keNgaL iraNdum endRu ummaik kaNdu pEsumO.
  
  Of course, the music was scored The Great Master of TFm g.rAmanAthan. Canon is a
  form of music which is similar to counterpoint but subtly different. It the form
  in which a melody is played. A second melody which is the same as the first one
  or a reverse of it or any mathematical isomorphism (yAr avar? iso = same; morphism
  = formation) of it played
  usually after the first melody has started playing and at a different tempo (speed).
  A fugue is a much relaxed form of canon. Great examples of canon and fugues
  can be found in the works of Johann Sebastian Bach (pronounced yOhAn sebAschan bAh
  with a 'h' as when you sneeze :-) ). I don't know of any fugue in TFM but there is
  a 'fuguish' piece in the first interlude of the song
  
  yennakku oru rAsA vENum sorugik koLLa rOsA vENum
  
  in the movie kadavuL.
  
  Disclaimer: My knowledge is very very limited in this area and there might
  be mistakes in what I have written. Please correct me when you find one. Thanks.
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Sat Mar 28 20:25:18 EST 1998
  
  BS: Some blabberings regarding your questions. Every (almost) symphony has
  the structure specified by kAnchanA. And each movement has substructures.
  Besides there are choices of structures available also. Therefore, symphonies
  ought to have variety. Your question regarding the creativity of the composer
  is like (not to offend you, but just a clarification using a simpler
  example known to all of us) "TFSongs have a pallavi, followed by an
  interlude followed by a couple of charaNams separated by an interlude. In
  such a case what is the creativity of the MD?" You got my point?
  
  Of course there are/were composers who revolt against every established
  norm and give different forms of symphonies. One of my favorite composers is
  the French composer Saint Saens. He wrote a symphony with only explicitly
  two movements (by merging two movements in to one). He was/is probably the
  most gifted composer to have lived on this earth, imo, oc (of course :-) ).
  His most famous work is "the bachchanale" in the opera Samsun et deLila. It is
  the title music of ungaL viruppam in Madras VivadhabhArathi. His music
  has such emotional content it is difficult to express the feeling you get
  listening.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tj05.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Mar 29 00:32:55 EST 1998
  
  aruLarasan:
  
  Thank you for jumping in--the more the merrier for such a discussion, especially since my knowledge is limited too. Would like to add to your statement to answer RV's question and to elaborate/clarify further on counterpoints--a very complex concept.
  But first, the music for kaNgaL iraNdum from mannAdhi mannan was composed by MSV-TKR; I'm glad to know counterpoints were used (pioneered?) by them in TFM.
  
  counterpoints, canons and fugues
  A counterpoint, simply put, is when several independent melodic lines are combined.
  There are several ways to achieve a counterpoint.
  1. The most conventional way is the one where two independent melodies are played at the same time. TFM examples I'd discussed earlier using iLayarAjA's chittukkuruvi song and MSV-TKR's kaNgaLiraNdum (as per aruLarasan).
  2. The second one is imitation when a theme is presented first by one "voice" and then is restated by an imitating voice; when the imitating voice restates the theme the first voice continues with the counterpoint.
  When the whole length of the melodic line is imitated, we have a composition called the canon. The most popular form of the canon is the round like "row, row, row a boat".
  The imitation could be intermittent too and does not have to be continuous.
  
  Retrograde is the device aruLarasan has mentioned--the melody is basically turned backwards.
  Inversion is when the melody is turned upside down.
  There are other techniques such as augmentation & dimunition which makes the theme sound slower/faster without altering the tempo.
  Retrograde-inversion where imitation occurs thru turning down and backwards at the same time.
  Please note all counterpoints are not imitative, there are multiple ways to achieve even imitative counterpoints, and therefore, "training" our ears to ID counterpoints is rather tricky.
  
  Fugue is a composition based on counterpoints, and belongs to the Baroque period. Literally, it means "flight" where the theme flees from "voice" to "voice" (instrumental, vocal, choral), with each voice "answering" the preceding voice and other "voices" weaving a fabric of counterpoints, and the interweaving gets richer as the piece proceeds. Bach and Handel were masters in this music form of interwoven textures in instrumental music. Simpler choral fugue (which rAsAththi borrows from, in theory) can be found in the fourth movement of Verdi's Dies irae.
  
  Counterpoints are by no means simple or uni-dimensional. In fact, I need to take a course in music to add further info on counterpoints here :-)
  
  Dr. BS:-)
  Thank you for reminding me of the phrase "hi-funda" which I had not heard since my undergrad days. malarum ninaivugaLukku nandRi! :-)
  
  I think aruLarasan has answered your first question re the composer's role. The skeletal framework stays the same (with a few exceptions), but, multiple permutations and combinations of the various elements listed under "materials of music" is possible and are limited only by the composer's preference and creativity.
  
  In the old, "aristocratic" days, the composer and conductor were the same. Nowadays, a conductor presents his personal interpretation of what a composer has written. He has the score in front of him and beats time, indicates the entrances of various instruments, the shadings in the volume of the tone, and a whole host of details related to the structure of the work. He judges what kind of sounds he desires and conducts the orchestra accordingly. Bach's Brandenburg Concertos definitely sound richer when conducted by Yehudi Menuhin versus someone else, for example.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tj05.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Mar 29 00:48:51 EST 1998
  
  aruLarasan:
  
  Thank you for jumping in--the more the merrier for such a discussion, especially since my knowledge is limited too. Would like to add to your statement to answer RV's question and to elaborate/clarify further on counterpoints--a very complex concept.
  But first, the music for kaNgaL iraNdum from mannAdhi mannan was composed by MSV-TKR; I'm glad to know counterpoints were used (pioneered?) by them in TFM.
  
  counterpoints, canons and fugues
  A counterpoint, simply put, is when several independent melodic lines are combined.
  There are several ways to achieve a counterpoint.
  1. The most conventional way is the one where two independent melodies are played at the same time. TFM examples I'd discussed earlier using iLayarAjA's chittukkuruvi song and MSV-TKR's kaNgaLiraNdum (as per aruLarasan).
  2. The second one is imitation when a theme is presented first by one "voice" and then is restated by an imitating voice; when the imitating voice restates the theme the first voice continues with the counterpoint.
  When the whole length of the melodic line is imitated, we have a composition called the canon. The most popular form of the canon is the round like "row, row, row a boat".
  The imitation could be intermittent too and does not have to be continuous.
  
  Retrograde is the device aruLarasan has mentioned--the melody is basically turned backwards.
  Inversion is when the melody is turned upside down.
  There are other techniques such as augmentation & dimunition which makes the theme sound slower/faster without altering the tempo.
  Retrograde-inversion where imitation occurs thru turning down and backwards at the same time.
  Please note all counterpoints are not imitative, there are multiple ways to achieve even imitative counterpoints, and therefore, "training" our ears to ID counterpoints is rather tricky.
  
  Fugue is a composition based on counterpoints, and belongs to the Baroque period. Literally, it means "flight" where the theme flees from "voice" to "voice" (instrumental, vocal, choral), with each voice "answering" the preceding voice and other "voices" weaving a fabric of counterpoints, and the interweaving gets richer as the piece proceeds. Bach and Handel were masters in this music form of interwoven textures in instrumental music. Simpler choral fugue (which rAsAththi borrows from, in theory) can be found in the fourth movement of Verdi's Dies irae.
  
  Counterpoints are by no means simple or uni-dimensional. In fact, I need to take a course in music to add further info on counterpoints here :-)
  
  Dr. BS:-)
  Thank you for reminding me of the phrase "hi-funda" which I had not heard since my undergrad days. malarum ninaivugaLukku nandRi! :-)
  
  I think aruLarasan has answered your first question re the composer's role. The skeletal framework stays the same (with a few exceptions), but, multiple permutations and combinations of the various elements listed under "materials of music" is possible and are limited only by the composer's preference and creativity.
  
  In the old, "aristocratic" days, the composer and conductor were the same. Nowadays, a conductor presents his personal interpretation of what a composer has written. He has the score in front of him and beats time, indicates the entrances of various instruments, the shadings in the volume of the tone, and a whole host of details related to the structure of the work. He judges what kind of sounds he desires and conducts the orchestra accordingly. Bach's Brandenburg Concertos definitely sound richer when conducted by Yehudi Menuhin versus someone else, for example.
  
  Big city orchestras--old, established, prestigious, typically well-funded, therefore can attract better talents etc etc.
  
  Hope this helps!
  
  To everyone: my apologies for all the extra-long postings in this thread, but couldn't find a better way to do it!!
  
  
  
• From: RV (@ 1cust111.max2.santa-clara.ca.ms.uu.net) on: Sun Mar 29 22:16:41 EST 1998
  
  Kanchana: Thanks again for clarifying. I was under the impression that in a fugue, when the "voice" shifts to another instrument, the same tune has to be played by the new instrument.
  
  Do you think the song "Yeriyile Yeriyile Yeriyile Yeriyile Ilandha Maram Thangacchi Vaccha Maram" would be an example of fugue ? ( Movie: Karaiyellam Shenbagappoo )
  
  
  

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