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The most scathing IR criticism ever, probably!

Topic started by cyk (@ 216.65.106.130) on Sun Sep 3 23:55:27 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I found this in the official message board of arrmp3 (geocities.com/arrmp3) run by Karthik, by someone called Pennathur. The write-up is probably the most scathing criticism I've ever come across of IR!!

cyk


Sites like aaraamthinai and indiainfo seem to be publishing motivated stuff about rahman.

let's face it folks there are still some people who can't accept the fact that Ilayaraja is no longer the Raja he was. It is not just that he has retired from the scene or something Rahman has ushered in a new order of things and has come out on top in a more comptetitve market. These controversies also have regional element to them. And please believe me I am not being parochial. Rahman's music is urban and specifically rooted in his favourite city (mine too) MAdras. Ilayaraja is a reluctant resident of Madras and for the talent that comes out of Cumbum, Madurai, Thenee he is the supremo. The composers and musicians in his - Raja's - camp (all incredibly talented) who work on TV serials and small clips for the movies will never accept that Ilayaraja's time is up. And they have been naysayers for a long time. For some time Ilayaraja tried propping up his sons Kartik and Yuvan Shankar, who unfortunately aren't even a glimmer in comparison to their illustrious father. And Kartik the upstart and braggart needlessly muddied himself badmouthing Rahman. Today neither of the boys are anywhere on the scene.

The comparisons that some people wouldn't like to make are as follows:

Ilayaraja was a swollen headed man - how many of you know that the title Isaignani was self-anointed?
While Rahman continues to remain a humble person and makes no great claims for himself except that he slogs his whatever off for each and every song

Ilayaraja was virtually hostile towards the press and never deigned to grant interviews or enven show himself in public. Rahman is approachable and fields soem fairly sensitive questions

Ilayaraja is but one in a long line of film composers in the many languages of India. But have you ever heard him acknowledging his own guru - GK Venkatesh - or MSV or anyone else? Rahman n the other hand is profuse in his praise for other composers and even acknowledges the genius of Ilayaraja

Rahman was the guy who taught Ilayaraja to use multi-track recording and remastering with Punnagai Mannan - and it is an open secret in Kodambakkam that at least two songs in the movie were composed by Rahman - and that's how KB caught hold of Rahman for Roja (remember KB produced the film) Raja has never acknolwedged tha man by now

Rahman continues to be a gracious man and participates in free events every now and then. While he may not be like the great MSV (who took care of SM Subbiah Naidu till his last days, performed free with his harmonium for some plantation workmen in Sri Lanka, who can even today be seen taking a walk down Santhome High Road in the evenings chatting up with the local potti kadai guys, or having a stroll by the beach) he is approachable. We do know that Raja came from very humble origins but how much does he mix around or remain rooted with people in everyday life?

In an interview on TV some years back someone asked MSV has Ilayaraja set you aside and has Rahman set aside Raja. To which the inimitable MSV replied, "No one sets aside anyone else. One: the listeners decide these matters as we just exist to satisfy their musical needs and two: only God can set people aside" Isn't it interesting that most Rahman fans are fans of MSV too? It is indeed a coup that Rahman got MSV to sing on "Sangamam"? With Rahman we are seeing the return of those balladish robust strains we would hear in every MSV solo.

And one more thing Rahman steers clear of something that Raja loved to do - interfere with the movie script and its direction etc. And that's what led to his downfall and parting of ways with his close friend Bharatiraja. The slide for Raja began with "Captain Magal" when Bharatiraja threw Raja off the sets for monkeying around. After which BR erased all the background score and the two songs already composed and called Hamsalekha to score the movie.

Fame is a very fickle thing. You don't know when it will part from you. MSV never let fame go to his head and has retired gracefully. While Ilayaraja just cannot, having lorded over the scene like a banyan tree (nothing grows underneath a banyan)

The story of Ilayaraja is a lesson to all of us.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: copied from lev mirlas in another thread (@ 32.97.110.69) on: Wed Sep 27 17:22:21 EDT 2000
  
  hey guys see this.....
  
  Real music composition and to play before the audience should have a lot of talents and should be a genius. A sound engineer can only do karoke.
  Take for example the work of Yanni in present days
  or the great works of Wolfgang "Mozart" they all were genius and were performing live.The coordination among different instruments and writing and imagining the music before being played is a wonderful art and a specialized skill which our "WHIZZ-KID" can't and will never do it.
  He just mixes bits and pieces from here and there.
  It is really shameful to tell that he is a composer. Those are the people called as musicians.
  Pl. I don't want to hurt anybody. But people should realise this. Just by recording some odd pitches is not great. Well I had high hopes before coming to this concert. But...I could not appreciate any thing. Sorry for the same
  
  
• From: KITKAT (@ 202.188.102.125) on: Wed Sep 27 20:55:02 EDT 2000
  
  Does ARR call himself a composer? It is you people who call him a composer and then bash him for that.
  
  
• From: A sound engineer (@ 203.199.80.193) on: Mon Oct 2 04:31:02 EDT 2000
  
  Hello,
  It is fashionable in this forum to deride sound engineers as if it's a job that requires little skill. Well, I am a sound engineer and a good one at that. I have studied sound for 5 years and think my job is no less skillful that what music directors do. Sure, it's not as glamorous or as paying as a music director's. But as just as creative
  
  
• From: :-) (@ 192.135.244.69) on: Mon Oct 2 05:15:10 EDT 2000
  
  a sound engineer,
  Nobody is deriding a sound engr.It's just that ppl are giving a tag which they think a person is.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon Oct 2 14:23:32 EDT 2000
  
  Sound engineer,
  I want to hear more from you. Why dont you tell us more about the way ARR and other music directors produce records (in terms of sound engineering, ofcourse) ?? Please do.
  (Going by ARR's success I am sure you are making money too)
  
  
• From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Thu Oct 5 03:58:36 EDT 2000
  
  Friends,
  
  It is very nice to have a heated, lively debate going on in this thread. We should be in a way feel proud that we have somebody to be there to have an altercation or meaningful debate based on IR and his music. Going personal on IRs characteristics is not good. For that matter it should not be on any public figure unless that personal characteristic in someway or other affects the public. I dont know how far IR's personal characteristics has affected the public. It might have affected others in the TFM but we cannot hold that based on a rumour, we dont know the otherside of it. With this I'm putting forth my arugment/response for the main message.
  
  The response "From cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Mon Sep 4 05:41:09 EDT 2000" for the actual message on IR is a fitting reply. But I want to add few more. " 'Kalaingar' bestowed this title upon IR is a weak argument". This title was given to IR the great when he was at the pinnacle of commerical success (note commercial success, knowledgewise, i still feel IR is still a successful man). That time IR could have prevailed upon 'kalingar' to give this title to him. We see this in the case of 'kaviperarasu' title. OK, assumed that IR himself wanted 'kalingar' to give this title to him. So what? Is that title so self-boosting? Its not saying as 'Isai perarasu' or 'Isai raaja' or 'Isai thee' or 'Isai kadal' or 'Isai puyal(!)'. Its just 'Isaignani' a mixed tamil-sanskrit word which literally mean 'Man who knows music'. Whats wrong in this title. Even guys like SAR should know a bit about music to give la..la..kind of stuff. Just because of this we cannot say IR is bad in music. One may argue that it shows his arrogance. If as argued 'Isaignani' is self-self-anointed then, Yes, arrongance is there, but very little. Its a virtue of every knowledgeable human in this world. But there should be a limit for it. I think 'Isaignani' is well within that limit. Mind it, rumours have come that IR does not want himself to projected as 'Raagadevan' which is bestowed upon him by 'jalara' film producers and directors.
  
  Now coming to the punnagai mannan episode, ARR himself has mentioned in one of his interviews that he was working for punnagai mannan as a 'PROGRAMMER' to just uploaded the music scripts of songs, the musical composition were of IR's. Nowhere ARR has claimed that some of the songs were composed by himself (if somebody says that it was ARR's generocity not to mention that then i want to know then why he pointed out that he only worked as a programmer, if it were of his generocity he should not have talked about it at all). Its again a vicious rumour which is floating in the eden of rumour called kodambakkam. (im sorry i dont remember in which thread i found this evidence, ie. link to that interview. but definitely i saw somewhere, either in this DF or some other DF). So citing 'Punnagai Mannan episode' as a point is baseless.
  
  Reverence to seniors was there in IR, hasnt he said recently that he(IR) has no status("thagudhi") to talk about his guru and music director shri dakshnaamoorthy. Isnt IR always says that "annan" MSV and MSV-R songs 'yenakku romba pidikku. didnt he cites examples like "maalai pozhudhin mayakkathilae naan kanavu kanden thozhi" (again, if somebody argues that just one song quote doesnt show respect then i will be forced to argue that just citing one song 'inji iduppalaga' does not show any respect to a senior MD).
  
  Whats wrong in not giving interviews in media? Even ARR follows the same tactics in Tamil Media. Its as difficult to get a interview from ARR. But he has given many interviews to English and Hindi Media. This is not a reason to be cited. See, IR came at/after/for MSV's decline and ARR came at/after/for IR's commerical decline. This is not an intention of either of these two. They just want to prove themselves. Also they are busy with their composition. Tamil Media knows very well about the entry of these two and subtle problems arising based on them eg. IR-Vairamuthu or ARR-Vairamuthu. So questions will be always pointed in that direction nothing will be useful for IR/ARR due to this interview. These might be on the other hand destructive for their performance. So generally persons of IR's calibre or ARR's popularity will tend to shrink themselves withing a small circle to avoid further confusions. See ARR is not lipping any word about the rumour "ARR-Vairamuthu combo".
  
  I dont understand what the author claims 'to be gracious'. Is that what appearing/conducting much popularised charity show he means? Then i want to point out that IR has done lot for charity. How many of them remember his contribution towards srirangam koil, and other charity things. If popularised charity shows are way of charity adopted by ARR then non-popularised charity was adopted by IR. Whats wrong in it? Come on this does not mean IR is arrogant and idiot in music composition.
  
  But one thing i could appreciate is IR is like a banyan tree, he is tall and large but no one has grown under him ( i dont have any evidence for it but i assume so). So what, my dear friend, do you know M.S. Subbalakshmi, the world renonwed, incomparable carnatic singer, she has NO Shishyas. She never taught music to other kids who wished to learn from her. Meanwhile another genious in D.K.Pattammal has innumerable sisyaas. Just because of that will you sling mud on M.S. Subbalakshmi? It might be her way of life in music. We cannot question her. I have one more point atleast this 'banyan tree (IR)' has given and still giving shades for hundreds of brilliant musicians under his banner. Is atleast this being followed by the 'one man powerful army' ARR?
  
  In general the main message has more pointer towards the personal characteristics of a person than his output. I'm very sorry that I also have to follow that way to respond.
  
  Cheers
  Kupps
  
  
• From: Madhi Anand Kumar (@ ) on: Sat May 26 03:09:55 EDT 2001
  
  I want to know ane thing about ARR.
  If he is so gentle as told by Pennathur then what made ARR to seperate from the famous Lyricist(hope everybody might have understood )
  
  It is only egoistic and nothing else.
  
  He could have given respect for his age.He don't even know to respect an elder-what kind of person he is?
  
  
• From: Anti-Pennathur. (@ 213.1.154.159) on: Sat May 26 04:25:52 EDT 2001
  
  I don't believe that this is the most scathing criticism of IR ever, because you can't take into consideration opinions of nobodys off the street.Who died and made Pennathur the deciding party on TFM? As far as I see, Pennathur is just a sad follower of ARR who can't get over the comprehend teh fact that IR will always be 100 time the MD ARR could ever be. If he is comparing IR to ARR what is the need to get personal and bring KR and YSR into the discussion?As I know it, YSR and KR have produced some hit albums recently and are outselling ARR's poor excuses for new releases(Star and Thenali)
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.53) on: Sat May 26 05:19:37 EDT 2001
  
  
  Should we waste our time on this need less thread ?
  
  

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