Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Is IR becoming like balamuralikrishna!!!

Topic started by krishnan (@ uswgne11.uswest.com) on Fri Jun 19 17:58:54 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have heard , balamurali who started off as a child prodigy and once the favorite had his popularity dwindling, not because of him running out of stuff, but becomimg more & more unpredictable.To be unorthodox once in a while was OK & acceptable by the carnatic lovers but if it becomes more frequent one tends to distant himself from the music lover.I am not questioning his knowledge, but he has ended up becoming quite a experimental man.After hearing to raja's recent albums poonthottam raja is definetely shifting gears by switching to different scales in the same song & using it in vocals.I remember of him using graha bedham in oldies like 'andhi mazhai' but rarely has he implemented it in vocals.No doubt,
this is new to TFM ( barring few exceptions like 'Poonkatrilae' & 'Devan thiru sabai malargalae').
But the fear is this should not sound too discordant for the common man.

---

Responses:

• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Jun 19 18:21:15 EDT 1998
  
  At long last an interesting topic about IR. I will keep my eyes on this thread when the vidhwaans discuss this. BTW, what is "graha bedham"? Do you mean "raaha betham" as in discordant or unlikely blend of raagams or is this a musical term? I'm curious. I only heard one song from Poonthottam from Indiadirect.com's top ten. I think it was sung by IR, I couldn't tell any significant experimentation going on there. If there was someone please explain it.
  
  
• From: Amma's Thambee (@ 202.54.43.165) on: Sat Jun 20 04:49:40 EDT 1998
  
  hey hey, when ever vidhvans discuss stuff like grah bedam, i request them to say a few things about those techinical stuff, so that newbies like me can atleast make an earnest attempt to learn them.
  This is an intersting thread indeed
  
  
• From: NaNbaN (@ 205.214.209.10) on: Sat Jun 20 15:32:15 EDT 1998
  
  Yeah! Vidwans needed with RAGA Manual.
  
  Raja is shifting Gears, Sure! I agree.
  
  I guess wrong gears. Theres lot of KR effect
  in his music nowdays. There are lot of unneccsary beats here and there. Do any guys feel like me?.Maybe KR scored the Music and IR the tune. Certianly he his trying to balance between NEW trend and his OWN trend.
  
  Why he has to do that?. I don't think he is scoring as he wanted to. But rather how it is
  WANTED. Which he never tried ,except for
  intially in his carrier. Whatever music he gave is trend. That's his MUSIC.
  
  IR has to stick to his own scoring and try to improve it. The 'bang' tunes, 'sizzling' interludes' , 'drama' base and 'Excellent' 'Pele'
  Finish. Am i dreaming????? Wake-up Wake-up
  
  Dreaming,
  NaNbaN
  
  
• From: S.Suresh (@ dwarpal.wipsys.soft.net) on: Mon Jun 22 01:28:27 EDT 1998
  
  Nice to see such a topic. Is Raja experimenting too much for his own good? I think not.
  
  Graha Bedam refers to shifting of the base not. Anyone with a keyboard can try it. Try playing Todi. This ragam is S R1 G2 M1 P D1 N2 S. Now make R1 as your base note (S) and play the same notes of Thodi. You should get Kalyani. This shifting of the base note to get another ragam is called Graha Bedam. Hope it makes sense.
  
  I think the song being referred to in Poonthotam is "Iniya Malargal". Here in the interlude the ragam does change and I had a feeling that this was due to Graha Bedham. I cant make out the main ragam but it sounded somewhat like Kalyani to me. But there is a definite change along the way. I thought that this was done in a seamless manner and it does not jar.
  
  In the other song of Poonthottam "Meetatha Oru Veenai", IR sticks to Rithi gowla all along. Here I have a contention with Mr.Nanban. There is no way that the orchestration of this piece could be that of KR. If it is, then that man is a genius. The music he has given till now makes me believe otherwise. The tune as well as the interludes of "Meetatha" do show that IR is experimenting. The violins are not smooth here. Rather, they come out in short bursts. All along maintaining the raga beautifully. Similarly the second interlude has the keyboard going in an almost moaning fashion and violins joining beautifully at the end. I dont know if IR will become unpopular because he tries such experiments but I for one will root for such music any time. If you observe, the Rithi Gowla in "Meetatha" is very restrained. He seems to be operating within some limits.
  
  
• From: amma's thambee (@ m39.chn.vsnl.net.in) on: Mon Jun 22 09:05:37 EDT 1998
  
  thank you suresh . I learnt 1 thing today.heheh
  -graha bedam
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ 161.225.48.3) on: Tue Jun 23 15:57:09 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  I have a question, How is Graha Bedam different from SCale change...
  For a example in Aboorava Sogotharagal ...
  Raja kaiya vehca.. he starts in A major and moves the key to C major...
  come back to AMajor..
  Can anyone explain this...
  Srikanth
  
  
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 128.96.140.26) on: Tue Jun 23 16:32:24 EDT 1998
  
  Graha Bedam could be same as scale change if the same notes are used with a different reference point. For e.g, A Minor scale is relative minor of C major. This is because A minor scale uses the same notes as C major scale, but the key is A. In carnatic music, you take a ragam and change the reference note and you arrive at a different ragam based on the new key. This is called as graha bedam. So what I would say is that all Scale shifts may not be graha bedam.
  
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 128.96.140.26) on: Tue Jun 23 16:39:06 EDT 1998
  
  In the song "Raja Kaiya Vecha", if Raja has a scale change from A major to C major, this is not a Graha bedam. The absolute notes are different for A major scale from C major. Greha Bedam always results in a different ragam using the same exact notes from the original ragam. You do it by changing the reference note.
  
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ cookie.mk.bellcore.com) on: Tue Jun 23 17:02:42 EDT 1998
  
  Raja has used Graha bedam in second interlude of Andhi Mazhai Pozhigirathu from Raja Paarvai. I could not remember any other song right now.
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 16.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Tue Jun 23 17:17:14 EDT 1998
  
  sridhar :
  Taking Mohanam in C scale , I change my reference note to D or Re ...it becomes madyamavathi
  Graha bedam....
  Example :
  SR RE GA PA DA SA - MOHANAM
  SA RE MA PA NE SA - MADYAMAVATHI
  Srikanth
  
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ 16.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Tue Jun 23 17:19:10 EDT 1998
  
  The browser changed every thing...
  
  SA RE GA PA DA SA - Mohanam
  
  ...SA RE MA PA NE SA... MADYAMAVathi
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Chandramouli (@ kcpxy5.att.com) on: Wed Jun 24 09:39:42 EDT 1998
  
  Guys,
  Isnt scale change just keeping the same raaga and changing the pitch to a higher scale??. If Iam not correct Ignore this
  
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 128.96.140.26) on: Wed Jun 24 09:53:48 EDT 1998
  
  You are talking about higher octave in the same scale. BTW, Scale is a set of related notes with a key note.
  
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 128.96.140.26) on: Wed Jun 24 10:05:15 EDT 1998
  
  May be somebody who has knowledge of carnatic music can answer my question. Please recall the song "Karaiyaadha manamum undo" from "Varusham 16". Typically in any song, the mridangam or tabla would be set to the Shruthi (usually Sa) of the song. In this song, the second saranam has two mridangam set to different Shruthi. when Yesudas sings, the Mridangam Shruthi is diiferent from one when Chitra sings. This gives you a feeling as if they are singing in two difffernt ragams. Raja has done this in another song., i.e, "Vaidehi Raman" from the movie "Pagal Nilavu". This is at the end of the first saranam when Janaki sings solfa sylables. And also the second interlude, when the mridangam and tabla alternate with Janaki's sylable singing.
  
  
• From: krishnan (@ uswgne11.uswest.com) on: Wed Jun 24 11:14:24 EDT 1998
  
  Common technique used by raja...
  
  He has done this to puzzle both the carnatic & the western listener.Employed mainly in pentatonic ragas like mohanam etc.
  
  You could classify a janya , like the one mentioned above under the 72 melas using the concept of subset/superset.Acoording to books mohanam comes under harikamboji( HK) (28) & not under S.baranam(SB) just because H>Kamboji is 28 & s.baranam is 29.This is argument has lasted for ever cause mohanam could well be a subset of both of them.
  
  Now, HK is a minor scale & SB is the major scale.
  Raja would not use any of the other notes in pallavi,charanam to please the carnatic listener.
  Now comes the interlude.He is definetely going to plunge in to the other notes & use the chords of the major or the minor scale.Then he would do scale change & before the vocals start like a obedient kid he would com back to mohanam.This is to please the wertern listener.Out of his 4000 songs has he ever stuck to the notes of the main raga ( except pure claiical songs in S,bhairavi etc).This technique is not easy & this is his hallmark.
  
  
  
  Now
  
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 128.96.140.26) on: Wed Jun 24 11:19:32 EDT 1998
  
  Krishnan:
  
  Please give me an example so that I could understand better. I would be happy if you could explain the song from "Varusham 16", I have mentioned above.
  
  
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 128.96.140.26) on: Wed Jun 24 15:22:06 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth:
  
  I was working on figuring out the chords for "Pudhu Maapilaikku" from "Apoorva Sagodharargal". Most of the song is in the key of G. In the key of G we have G, Am, Bm, C, D, Em, Fdim. Raja has used G, Am, Em, D7, D, C. He has also used some chords outside this. The Saranam uses B major, E major. The second interlude String run has the following chord changes, just brilliant :
  Starts with G major->E minor->Eb aug->G major->E major->D major->E minor. Wow, total fun.
  
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 161.225.48.3) on: Wed Jun 24 17:02:07 EDT 1998
  
  Sridhar:
  Also this song shifts to complete major scale ..
  at this place - .enalum na anpilai than..
  have you tried disecting the violin piece in the first bgm. it has four parts ...try finding all the parts,,
  the Double bass part which is a chormatic scale..is awesome....
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 128.96.140.26) on: Wed Jun 24 17:15:50 EDT 1998
  
  Yeah, the song shifts to E major at "ennalum na ".
  That is why I have included E and B major in the saranam. I think that you are talking about the second interlude. The first interlude has clarinet followed by trumpet followed by Keyboards. There is no strings in the first interlude. I was talking about the chords for the same string section, you are talking about. Raja has used Eb augmented chord. On top of the strings, Keyboard plays chromatic notes too. It is just awesome. Could you think of any other song which has used a augmented chord ?
  
  
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 128.96.140.26) on: Wed Jun 24 17:30:17 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth:
  
  I just re-read your posting. The song is already in the key of G major. I am not clear when you say that song shifts to a major scale. It does E major and B major chords which are not part of G major scale. But the whole song is in a major scale (G).
  The song shifts from a E minor chord to E major chord at "ennalum na".
  
  
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments