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Death of Tamil identity in Tamil cinema

Topic started by Ramakrishna (@ 209.179.214.237) on Thu Jan 3 22:23:11 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

In the 80's and before, Tamil movies and songs had a flavor that made them unique. But in the 90's, there has been a slow but sure trend in Tamil movies where they have become more and more North-Indianized or even MTVised (if there is such a term).

Songs don't feature south Indian instruments like Nadhaswaram or the mridangham any more. Even the days of rich violin orchestrations of Illayaraja or Viswanathan Ramamurthy are over. Instead, the music has become more techno/pop and were it not for the lyrics, one cannot even recognize a lot of songs as being Indian, let alone Tamil.

Speaking of lyrics, the less said the better. Apart from being nonsensical, the heavy use of English phrases makes one wonder if these lyricists have secret desire to start a career with Motown.

Also why do most dance seqences feature Punjabi attire? Hello, these are supposed to be TAMIL movie about TAMILIANs.

How many times these days does a lead actress wear a saree and has a pottu? I mean, other than in Vijayakanth films.

Even other things insignificant ranging from background score to rolling credits at the end are blindly copied from Hollywood.

For me in my youth, a major portion of my cultural exposure to south Indian culture was through Tamil movies. I am afraid the current and future generations may not have that opportunity. Instead they would be stuck with watching dubbed Hindi movies because that is what Tamil movies these days essentially are.

I am not a Hindi basher but it is sad that regional language films are losing their identities to this relentless MTVisation.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Sun Jan 6 11:58:32 EST 2002
  
  kupps,
  
  //"Whereas music making; lyrics/poetry/prose writing etc fall under art in which the lesser the use of technology indicates that it is more art(of a person). "//
  
  your perspective of technology is dependent on current time. In the era of scratching stones to do paintings using paint brushes might have been considered luxury! But now those are original art forms and latest technology a luxury.. this will change. I dont think its fair to assume what has been in the past to be original. There are many versions of the past and you cannot have a consistent opinion based on it.
  
  Plus from the 3 scenarios rgarding change of car tyre. I would say you were wrong to do it by hand or spanners if u already had an automatic machine to do it! because you would then be re-inventing the wheel.
  
  "kaila nai(ghee) irukaruche vennai kaacharthu is not a good idea.
  
  Plus! the whole point of art and technology is to create new things and do what no one else has done before! If technology helps to expand currently existing boundaries then you have to use it.
  
  Imagine the latest drawing on tip of a pin or in a rice grain those are a result of technological marvels.... dont you consider them art form.
  
  -Bharath
  P.S: In a car race wudnt a automatic repair machine help you plan better for a completing the race faster!
  
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Jan 6 12:55:12 EST 2002
  
  Bharath - I agree that the ART Vs. Technology binary is a false one. Technology is another instrument for the innovative artist. Art, conceptually, resides in the Imagination of the individual. Technology (if used appropriately) hones and aids that imagination. As such, Art & Tech are not mutually exclusive - but complementary and dependent on each other in many interesting ways.
  
  The element of surprise (or sorrow) in present-day TFM (or all film music, generally) is this: It is the LOWERING of STANDARDS - where individual merit/artistic excellence is relegated to the backseat, while keyboards/mixing/trackthis&that all take centre stage. I don't know why the ascendency of one has to be at the cost of the other...Lyrics, Singing, Compositions, Conducting - why do these have to dip? Can't they reach newer peaks - alongside technology??
  
  Let's shatter another myth: The tamil language is like Amudhasurabhi - it is endless in its riches and its offerings. It is centuries (millenia even) old and sophisticated. Indian music traditions pre-date western classical traditions - and are capable of intricate melodic structures/complexities. They have been for time immemorial. The fault does not lie in the traditions or in Tamil. The fault lies with the overwhelming EMPHASIS on Technology - and it is this mindless infatuation that is worrisome.
  
  
• From: rasigan (@ 207.172.47.96) on: Sun Jan 6 13:19:54 EST 2002
  
  AVR- While what u say abt technology's bringing in good and bad is very true , it is quite sad and depressing to just accept things the way they r now .
  
  TFM is being literally abused by the ARR's / Vairamuthu's / Devas and clan. They do to tamils what is called "Mass-Butchering".(though i belive that ARR is a guy who understands technology better than any other MD , he insists on giving loud , inaudible music). The likes of vairamuthu and deva , the lesser said the better !!
  
  Does one get the same satisfaction listening to songs of today with techno blitz (columbus columbus types, mustafa mustafa) and songs like ''Amaidhiyana nadhiyinile, thazhayam poo mudichu,kamban yemandhan' ????
  
  I wish better sense prevails upon the younger generation and we r back to the good old music of yesteryears.
  
  I wish we remain true tamils and stop the "MUMMY" culture.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Jan 6 13:30:00 EST 2002
  
  Rasigan - Yes, good music is soul nourishing. May there be good music (like the yesteryears) for the future-years!
  
  (We can eat hamburgers and pizza and call our mothers "mummy" - but when we are home and when we cook sambhar or pongal or murukku - we expect it to taste like the "family" recipe - andha narumanam, andha suvai. Music should also retain that "taste" as much as possible. For me the Mustafa Mustafa songs are like a rare visit to McD's. It is fun - but it should not become an over-indulgence which ruins good taste!)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.166.87.190) on: Sun Jan 6 13:43:10 EST 2002
  
  Even though I do not enjoy the music of ARR as much as I enjoy the music of IR or earlier legends I think it is totally unfair to put ARR and Deva in the same sentence :)) Some people were saying pammal k sambandham music is good and so I tried listening to it on raaga.com ..gawd..where have our standards gone..I couldn't enjoy the songs at all.
  ARR introduced new arrangements and mixing styles..with instruments in the foreground and the vocal behind. This is good not only for highlighting the rhythm but also comes out well on consumer stereo systems. Still ARR did things with some 'taste'. It is the rest of the market (headed by Deva) which is overdoing it inorder to oneup ARR.
  We still need to address bad lyrics/pronounciation and totally low quality compositions.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Sun Jan 6 14:00:25 EST 2002
  
  Naaz,
  
  The compositional or individual artistry that you are talking about is again perspective.
  
  I remember reading in some earlier threads as to how IR would meticulously prepare for a composition and how he would make sure every individual istrument player met IR's expectations.
  All this IR could not have done w/o technology.
  
  As another wakeup call to those who subconcously think computer is begin and end of technology. I view ARR's keyboard/mixing skills on par with IR's wcm and compositional skills.
  
  ARR's skills also require artistry.
  
  //"individual merit/artistic excellence "//
  
  u know what.. other people may not better but kadri gopalnath suresh peters and sivamani were good examples of individual artistic merit etc... these were the first drummers/instrument players i came to know of. I dunno the name of any member of IR's band(again many may know these details but I am not sure if those details are as popularly known as sivamani etc).
  
  If your opinion of individual merit is confined to just singers or lyricists I disagree... Music doesnt depend on just voice r words... I am okay with sound(from whichever source) dominating the song! As long as the music is good I will like it.
  
  IR has been doing it 1 way which every one likes and ARR is doing it in anotherway... he may not satisfy purists but its the purists fault and not his!
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.243) on: Sun Jan 6 14:05:54 EST 2002
  
  //"may not better "//
  
  sorry this should be may ***KNOW*** better
  
  
• From: rasigan (@ 207.172.47.96) on: Sun Jan 6 14:10:45 EST 2002
  
  kiru..that brings an interesting point ..i am not sure whether we have this thread in TFM..which is better 'vocal in the front and music at the background or vice versa'.
  
  Though i am a strong advocate of the first , i think it cud be lot of food for thought listening to the other school's views.
  
  IR is to be admired for that aspect. he brought a balance.
  
  Still, personally i wud go with the old songs where there is beautiful music, excellent lyrics(only TAMIL), beautiful rendition..in today's songs a lot is compromised. Though vocal was in the foreground the soft music used to blend with it so well that the effect was terrific
  
  Kiru.. i agree that ARR cannot be treated in the same vein as Deva.
  Arr is MCd's burger ,deva is rat poison..
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Jan 6 14:21:26 EST 2002
  
  I think you missed the main point of my posting, Bharath. I was not making an Either/Or case. I was suggesting coexistence - where technology is an Instrument that is used (only) to heighten the experience of the the entire melody - not just one aspect of it.
  
  And secondly, TFM (or any film music) if it were only instrumental, it would be better (of course,) but it will not be "Indian" film music. Song Dance Words are part of the whole Indian film as mass entertainment (which are "musicals" 99% of the time - no matter which the language may be). It is a "construct" which has become an indispensible part of the mainstream indian cinema since the advent of the "talkies". Hence, the inclusion of Lyrics/Singing/Pronunciation - in the composition - as part of that construct. One cannot let the other components drop by the wayside - and just say that the interlude/background orchestration was awesome. That is not the "total" experience of song (as it is presented in Indian cinema). This is where individual merit (singer/drummer/conductor/lyricist) all come into play. The "artistic" excellence has to be a balance of all these aspects. Not just one over the other - or just one and none of the others.
  I argument is confused with "purity" - when the real thrust is "excellence" on all fronts - without compromising cultural/regional/musical nuances.
  IR's compositions (in his heydays) are a perfect example of all these aspects coming together magically - without eclipsing each other.
  
  
• From: rasigan (@ 207.172.47.96) on: Sun Jan 6 14:23:38 EST 2002
  
  While there is no doubting ARR's technical competence, when we r discussing music it is not just instruments ..it is the lyrics, pronounciations, mixing and a whole lot.
  
  Sheer manipulation of instruments does not make somebody 'ARTISTIC'. that is a very powerful word and i think due diligence must be there before qualifying something as art.
  
  Krishnamachari Srikanth is an entertaining player , but can u say he is artistic and compare with vishi/gavaskar ?
  
  i think a lot of people have gained personally by making this division of purists and others (the so called masses) when it come to music taste.
  
  a better classification would be good music and "Vassool" music (the current day music)
  
  On that pained note...
  
  

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