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Is TFM in a vicious cycle of degeneration?

Topic started by rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on Tue Sep 26 15:43:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have checked the archives and for some reason a topic with a similar heading is gone!
So here's is some food for thought.

1. Actors like Ajith, Vijay, etc commanding MDs to copy from "English CDs" and set them to Indian lyrics.
2. MDs like Deva, Sirpi copying left, right and center, in situations excluding item 1 above.
3. Bad pronunciation of singers.
4. MDs like SAR repeating the same tune over and over and over......you get the point (and many times in the same film)
5. ARR not putting any effort in re-recording at all- merely playing the songs in the movie with slower/faster versions.
6. ARR, Srikanth (Deva's son), etc blatantly indulging in lip-synch activities. Other lesser known artists, engaged in karaoke singing. While this does not directly affect TFM it speaks for the lack of confidence in the talents of the artists.
7. Many occurences of really stupid lyrics - though most of them may be blamed on the director/producers adamant insistence or same boring situations.
8. Absence of thespians who could inspire Kannadasan, TMS, SPB, PS etc to give their best.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Thu Sep 28 13:43:30 EDT 2000
  
  Srikanth,
  "I would thank your roomie for putting me into that form of music. "
  
  MS ungalayum vittu vaikalaya?;))
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Thu Sep 28 14:21:27 EDT 2000
  
  Before we start going gaga over showering malayaLam film industry with praises, a reality check please. If you exclude guru and a few IR and IR like film music, mallu music is mostly ragam based melody without any experimentation effort whatsoever. Do you know that ARR is not at all popular in Kerala. C'mon! And all male singers = KJY or KJY clones. All the female singers have these 'clean perfect' voices. No compositions like LRE hits or ponmeni urugudhEy or Chandralekhaa or thee thee thithikkum thee etc. In fact, I will say that the average Malayali audience (as far as music goes) is very conservative and are not in the new millennium yet.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Sep 28 14:31:09 EDT 2000
  
  RajaG, there are 2 groups, one group does really mordern form of music. Other one as you mentioned are very very conservative with too many kjy clones.
  
  Like Elvis look alike show here, we can have a kjy voice alike shows in kerala.
  
  No hits like "ponmeni urugudhEy" - some mallu movies themselves contribute much to this :)
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.53) on: Thu Sep 28 15:37:04 EDT 2000
  
  Actually as Srikanth said few guys from our side like VS, Suresh Peters have gone there and are doing a reasonable job. I happened to hear a few nos of VS. RajaG, if u referring to 80s or before u might be right. I have also felt that the songs were monotonous and had the ability to put u to sleep quickly. But things are changing.
  
  Also unlike the TFM audience they have not embraced the western influence too quickly and so far this has not had any negative impact on their music, IMO. and our TFM MDS embracing western music has only given rise to more lifts and copies so far, with originality at a premium(barring a few songs of ARR).
  
  Proof: copied songs thread
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.200.35) on: Thu Sep 28 16:28:58 EDT 2000
  
  Since you guys talking about Mallu music :)
  It is only proper this credit should go to the great Dakshinamoorthy.
  After him composers like Johnson and also to trend setter Mr.Ravindran for brining out great composition in His Highness Abdullah,Sargam and so on.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Sep 28 16:39:20 EDT 2000
  
  rajaG,
  Why should everybody like ARR ? :) Whats wrong in just liking melody ? Kerala has done economically, educationally and socially well. They have a very good intellectual tradition. Their movie industry reflects it. So whats wrong in giving credit. Dont you think they deserve it ?
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Thu Sep 28 17:12:01 EDT 2000
  
  kiru: neenga enna thappaa purinjindirukkeenga. I am not saying that everybody should be fans of ARR. ARR brought about a change in what was dominant in TFM. I am saying this because I don't want to get into whether ARR is a pioneer or not. But bottom line the style of the popular songs changed. I am merely talking about accepting a different and more modern genre of music, that's all. It need not be considered all time best, most sought after, etc. All I am saying is if it is not at all popular, then to some extent, that culture is not ready for it.
  
  Most of the mallu hits are still ragam based melodies which don't have any impressive harmony, bass, non-traditional percussion, clever orchestration etc.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Thu Sep 28 17:24:22 EDT 2000
  
  Since we’re getting off the thread’s theme, I’m giving a point by point rebuttal:
  
  1.Actors like Ajith, Vijay, etc commanding MDs to copy from "English CDs" and set them to Indian lyrics.
  
  MGR made MSV copy “Strangers in the Night” by Sinatra into “Nallathu Kannae”. He also influenced MDs in the direction, tempo a song will take. Fortunately, the man had good taste and didn’t delve into Western stuff a whole lot. But control of stars has come down from those days. Deva’s only selling point is flexibility, he will set the national anthem to rap for the right price. But MD's in general didn't wield the power they do now. Did you ever see KVM’s or MSV’s picture in the posters?
  
  2. MDs like Deva, Sirpi copying left, right and center, in situations excluding item 1 above.
  
  Have you heard of Veda? He did so many lifts from Western, and Hindi movies for Modern Theatres movies. Then you had Shankar-Ganesh whose trademark “tadyyng tyng” bgm for chase scenes was a steal from Bobby. They also stole from all over the map for songs. That they have talent and have many originals is another matter.
  
  3. Bad pronunciation of singers.
  
  Okay, this point can’t be refuted. Although I give you KJY’s early years and many comic singers like A.L.Raghavan (did he sing Engirundhaalum vaazhga? He sang it as vaalga)
  
  4. MDs like SAR repeating the same tune over and over and over......you get the point (and many times in the same film)
  
  I’m no raagam pundit so I find at least one or two good songs in most SAR albums. I haven’t found repetition in his songs, point them out to me.
  
  5. ARR not putting any effort in re-recording at all- merely playing the songs in the movie with slower/faster versions.
  
  Listen to BGM by Chandrabose, Shankar-Ganesh, MSV from the 70s. Pure headache, man. Mirudhangam is a great instrument but not for fight sequences and car chases. Most of the time less is more in bgm. I don’t need the scene’s emotion spoon fed to me with crying violins or escalating beats.
  
  6. ARR, Srikanth (Deva's son), etc blatantly indulging in lip-synch activities. Other lesser known artists, engaged in karaoke singing. While this does not directly affect TFM it speaks for the lack of confidence in the talents of the artists.
  
  I’m squarely with you on this one. But this hardly affects TFM. If anything it emphasizes the buying of CDs and tapes.
  
  7. Many occurences of really stupid lyrics - though most of them may be blamed on the director/producers adamant insistence or same boring situations.
  
  Nothing new, this has been going on forever. Only, in the 60s and 70s these songs died a quicker and quieter death.
  
  8. Absence of thespians who could inspire Kannadasan, TMS, SPB, PS etc to give their best.
  
  This is a myth. There’s plenty of good stuff now and all the aforementioned have given more than their share of nasty, deplorable songs.
  
  Summation:
  The period between 71 and 76 was very bleak (I remember with agony over everyone around me listening to Hindi songs and one almost couldn’t blame them because TF was taking a beating on all fronts—style, substance, variety and of course music.) If you don’t remember this period let me refresh your memories:
  
  This was the time when MGR focused more on politics than his movies, so movies were a vehicle for his political rise. Needless to say, the richness found in music from his earlier movies was eroding consistently. Sivaji had become a caricature of his former self, averaging one blood vomit after another in one ridiculous maudlin farce after another, even Kannadhasan couldn’t save his movies from this era. Historians can label this the Manjula phase. She was the number one heroine for 3 to 4 years and did a record number of bad movies with the then elite in TF. The second tier: Sivakumar, Muthuraman, Jaishankar… were churning out their worst movies ever also. The only surprises came from KB’s movies and from occasional V.Kumar and Vijayabasker tunes. MSV was largely uninspired because the projects were such. KVM had relegated himself to Telungu and other fields. Shankar-Ganesh were in full swing but didn’t do much of their good work here. This was a much worse period for TFM than now.
  
  
• From: Arasu Dakshin (@ 207.14.54.15) on: Thu Sep 28 17:38:22 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya,
  
  Well said. I love your postings.. Especially this one. Continue..
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 207.43.195.201) on: Thu Sep 28 17:59:40 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya: Thanks for letting me spike it! Taking off from your examples in 1, 2, 3 and 5 - AND THEN CAME ILAYARAJA! AND THEN CAME A.R. REHMAN...
  
  Truly all those deficiencies which you mentioned in 1,2,3 and 5 were not dominant/glaring during the peak of IR and early ARR stages. By your own admission that these problems have existed in the past, you are conceding that they are existing now! Why, I ask! Why, even after the standards have been raised that we have to go back to lower levels of the distant past. MSV used mridangam because he did not have a Korg/Roland/Alesis. But Sabesh Murali constantly playing "pachchai niramEy, pachchai niramEy' in varying speeds is like using balappam when Pentium is available.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on: Thu Sep 28 18:02:44 EDT 2000
  
  Arasu Dakshin: ennOda pOsting kkum neenga "sabaash! sariyaana pOtti" nu pOdalainnaa appuram naanEy thondargaL a kootindu varavEndi irukkum. yaaruppaa angEy? thalaivarukku oru gOli sOda!:-)
  
  
• From: thondan tnagar tilakdas (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Sep 28 18:08:54 EDT 2000
  
  isshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...tak...intha thalaiva colouru themba irukum.. salpeta thevaina sollu..
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on: Thu Sep 28 18:13:24 EDT 2000
  
  thondan: salpEta ngaradhu ;-) ;-) kishmu yErppaadu thaanEy?
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Thu Sep 28 18:19:01 EDT 2000
  
  RajaG,
  You are showing perception bias in your reading. My point is "we didn't start the fire". History tells you the pattern the future will take. You are crying entropy, I'm saying we've been there and in another 20-30 years we'll be there again. And again the period I talked about was a lot worse than now. There was no 2-out-of-4 good songs trend back then.
  
  "With more why don't we do better" is an unrealistic argument for any field. Why haven't we shut out hunger with all the relative prosperity in the world? How come peace is so hard if man has evolved so much since his cave days?
  
  To expect prefection as a necessary next step in progress is shying away from history and reality. With every progressive step there are several missteps. With every new trendsetter come a hoard of cheap imitators. That fact hasn't changed nor will it ever change. The only uniqueness about our time is in the degree of missteps and the number of imitators. But followers never dictate progress, only pioneers do. Once the dust settles, and it sure will, the fact will remain indispensable, steady progress has been made.
  
  

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