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Pronounciation in TFM songs

Topic started by muthax (@ user-38ld829.dialup.mindspring.com) on Sun Sep 13 03:45:16 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi guys,

TFM has seen lots of singers from other languages. Some have/are
ruled/ruling the TFM for so many years. Many of these singers started
to sing in tamil without even knowing to read and write in tamil.
Still those songs have been a big hit, for the tune, lyrics and
ofcourse their talent to bring the emotion in the song. In quite a few
occasions i have noticed singers like KJY have missed some finer aspects
of singing a song - the Pronounication. Not to blame the singers
i feel the MDs of such songs shud have taken more care on the
pronounciation aspects of these singers.

In this thread i would like to mention few songs of K.J.Y where he
missed the pronounciation. This is *not to criticise* KJY or
any other singer. But just to discuss this aspect in singing a song.
I would like u all to mention other such song/singers u have come across

1. Senthazham poovil vandhadum thendral en meedhu modhudhamma
poovaasam medai podudhamma penn bolae jaadai pesudhamma

whereas it shud have been Polae

same song the line

2. Maravaen Maraven arBudha kaatchi.

where as it shud have been arPutha.

3. Ninaivaalae silai seidhu unakaaga vaithen
Therukoilae odi vaa....

whereas it shud be thru-koilae

same song
4. sendhoora bendham......

whereas it shud be sendhoora bandham

guys pour more singers and songs...

Muthax

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Responses:

• From: muthax (@ user-38ld829.dialup.mindspring.com) on: Sun Sep 13 03:48:54 EDT 1998
  
  oops! song no 3 shud have been thiru-koilae
  sorry for the spelling error.
  [read the following in shivaji's accent]
  thappa type pannina thiruthidalaam
  aanaal thappa paadinaa thirutha mudiumaaaaaaa???
  
  :))))
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Sun Sep 13 12:15:47 EDT 1998
  
  compared to what suresh peters, udit narayan and others are churning, KJY looks like a god in pronounciation. a good case in point is the song "hello doctor" from kadhal desam. how many understood the lyrics when they heard it the first time???i think the best person re pronounciation is SPB.
  
  
• From: muthax (@ user-38ld852.dialup.mindspring.com) on: Sun Sep 13 15:51:42 EDT 1998
  
  balaji, the song sung by Suresh peters are meant to be pronounced like that. Frankly speaking i did not understand Chiku biku railu for almost 3-4 times. it is meant to be sung like that. here what iam trying to bring to notice is, those songs were singers mispronounced and went un-noticed by MDs - which cud have beeen avoided. I have clearly mentioned that this thread is *not* to defame any singer(definetly u and i can't do that -IMHO).
  
  so lets not get into who is the best of the lot or anything like that but just to mention that these songs were sung by these singers and it contains some mis-pronounced words. Thats it!
  
  
• From: sathiya (@ skrithik.qualcomm.com) on: Sun Sep 13 19:53:00 EDT 1998
  
  Ila arun in "muthu muthu mazhai .." song in
  Mr.Romeao- "thadavadha" instead of "thadavadhe"
  
  udit - in Kadhalan , "kaadhalikkum penolikkum
  kai ezhuthile.."
  instead of "penaLikkum kai ezhuthile"
  
  
  
• From: Someone (@ 167-128-205.ipt.aol.com) on: Sun Sep 13 21:37:02 EDT 1998
  
  Pillai nila (should be PiLLAi nila...) - KJY
  (almost in all songs he renders PiLLAi as Pillai)
  
  
  
• From: balaji (@ nt72.cs.uiuc.edu) on: Sun Sep 13 22:59:06 EDT 1998
  
  muthax ; i am not here to defame any one and have not done it so far. but let me beg to differ from ur views : u said those songs were meant to be sung in that way. truly?? did the MD decide that the particular vaarthaigal should be pronounced in those ways?? i am skeptical about that. is
  "cadburys kasuckkuthe" an intended pronounciation? please let me know.
  thanks
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Sep 14 04:09:07 EDT 1998
  
  Someone,
  KJY was mispronouncing in his earlier days and not now. I don't find any fault in his rendition say from sindhubhairavi to pachchai kiligaL (in pachai kiLigaL he pronounces kiLi as kili )
  
  Muthax,
  I agree with balaji. I think the MD himself doesn't know tamil properly to correct the singers.
  in mustafa ARR sings "...kalloori natpukkillai mutrupulliye " whereas it shud 've been "puLLiye"
  and in arabic kadaloram "...kangal" instead of kaNgaL.
  and u can find such flaws in almost all songs he sings.
  IMO SPB, IR and TMS are good at pronunciation.
  IR sung "dhagappatta nenjukkuLLe egappatta sandosam" instead of sandosham bcos the tamil of an illiterate gramathu guy was meant to be that way.
  Apart from that i haven't found any mispronunciation from IR
  
  
• From: IRfan (@ gw4.awo.com) on: Mon Sep 14 12:14:01 EDT 1998
  
  Pallavi(SPB's daugher) sings "un kaadalai nee sonnadhum" instead of "un kaadhalai nee sonnadhum" in "Haira haira - Jeans".
  
  In the adhisayam song in the same movie Jeans, UK pronunces "pOl" as "pOL".
  
  Saadhana Sargam came out with really bad pronunciation in the song "kaththum kuyile" in Kilakkum mErkkum.
  
  
• From: muthax (@ client209-42-213-93.intrex.net) on: Mon Sep 14 12:19:46 EDT 1998
  
  balaji and shankar my comment on suresh peters and the md was regarding the "Nuni naaku tamizh" pronouncitaion, which is can be heard quite often in the college circle.
  but definetly i agree with the "puLLIye" pronounciations which is often missed by many of these singers.
  but the drag in the line "cadbureees ka-suck-uthey" i feel is an intended one. u can find quite a lot of such stuff in ARR's composition. like for eg "baegy pantan potathan neenKa jeans panthaan paaPeenKa jeans panthan potaathaan neenKa vetiyathaan theduveenKa"
  that unnecessary stress in neenKa instead of neenga. i feel these are intended ones.
  
  Definetly SPB,TMS,IR are good. Here i wud like to mention that the best of all the singers (IMHO) was "Seergazhi Govindarajan". His Ucharippu is too good.
  
  btw, can anyone discuss why SPB sang Chinna pura ondru song as "Ssina pura ondru". i dont know the context of the song.
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Mon Sep 14 15:34:40 EDT 1998
  
  muthax : i don't think Ssina is a bad pronounciation. then
  "rossaapoo" from suriya vamsam should not be appreciated. many don't say Chinna. they say Ssina. of course, seergazhi is my favourite too. i was about to mention him when i read ur posting. it is more due to the upbringing of the singer rather than anything else. KJY has his malayalam traits, while SPB is somehow able to mask his telugu trait. may be bcos telugu and tamil are similar in pronounciation and stress in many ways.
  re SPB again, he has sung "Chinna Chinna thural enna" excellently. so i don't think it was a mispronounciation.
  i still have my doubts on the stress in ARR's songs. in an interview, nithyasree said that ARR gives a lot of freedom to the singer and the singer can experiment. probably that has some relevance to this discussion.
  also, if i am right, did UK sing "poovukkul olindirukkum" instead of "poovukkuL " in jeans? long time since i heard it last.
  
  
• From: muthax (@ user-38ld86s.dialup.mindspring.com) on: Tue Sep 15 01:07:38 EDT 1998
  
  yes there are quite a lot of songs where ss comes.
  definetly i did not say it was mispronounciation from SPB. He is one of those who adapted to tamil songs very well. I have heard very less of Jeans so .... i dont know about UKs song. Speaking about freedom in singing... the song Malare mounama comes to my mind.
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Tue Sep 15 01:13:10 EDT 1998
  
  malare mounama is from vidyasagar.
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Tue Sep 15 23:49:43 EDT 1998
  
  muthax,
  The context of "sinna pura onru" from anbe sangeetha is that, SPB sings for SuruLi rAjan !!!
  and then the character sings it with a bottle of liquor(I think suruli is a kuppathu ALu in the movie)
  
  
• From: muthax (@ user-38ld953.dialup.mindspring.com) on: Wed Sep 16 00:12:01 EDT 1998
  
  shankar is it surli or thengai?
  i thot(wagely remember) thengai srinivasan singing this song. but whoever it is SPB wud have done a good job in that song. one of my favourites.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ sf-dnpqc-026.compuserve.net) on: Wed Sep 16 04:30:03 EDT 1998
  
  TMS and Seerkazhi were superb in their pronounciation, no doubt. I think SPB too belongs to the same bracket considering how he brought into TFM a stylised diction to suit the modern scenario at the same time maintaining a flawless pronounciation. KJY IMO has a long way to go despite the similarities between Malayalam and Tamil. I do not know what his problem is.
  
  
• From: muthax (@ client209-42-213-93.intrex.net) on: Wed Sep 16 12:46:00 EDT 1998
  
  how about the female singers? the fact that most of the singers in TFM have been from outside tamil nadu - leavealone the new irakumathigal. do they pronounce well?
  
  
• From: balaji (@ sparc40.cs.uiuc.edu) on: Wed Sep 16 15:28:51 EDT 1998
  
  about female singers, i am very happy with the current singers, chitra, sujatha, anuradha etc. their pronounciation is soft and marked(discrete). one example of bad pronounciation among female singers that i can think of immediately is "thallippo thallippo" instead of "thaLippo thaLippo" in nerukku ner by asha bhonsle.
  
  
• From: vasanth (@ mira.cc.umanitoba.ca) on: Sat Sep 19 13:46:16 EDT 1998
  
  One of the best TFM singers with exceptional clear diction was Vani jayaram. In whichever language she sang her pronounciation was impeccable.
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Sep 21 00:25:24 EDT 1998
  
  sAdhanA sargam in NINI (md-KR) sings "nee podhum" as "nee podham" in the song kattaana ponnu...
  
  
• From: SV (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Sep 21 01:10:39 EDT 1998
  
  Has anyone of you noticed S. Janaki pronouncing sh for s, eg. Koil maNi Oshai thannai... ?
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ sf-dnpqe-096.compuserve.net) on: Mon Sep 21 02:13:03 EDT 1998
  
  Has anybody noticed Mano pronouncing Choottum or Soottum as tsoottum (telugu) in the song 'Nee oru kaadhal sangeetham' in the line 'poovai choottum'.
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Sep 21 08:43:50 EDT 1998
  
  SV (is that U ,viswa???)
  In mallu , u have 3 types of "S".One is 'sa' (used in saleem) another one is 'sha' (used in shankar) and an in-between "sa" which is used only in mallu.
  Sj's "sa" sounds that way.
  
  

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