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why no female MDs in TFM?

Topic started by badri raghavan (@ 206.103.12.125) on Mon Jun 15 23:52:45 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

is there any particular reason why females have not made a mark as MD? don't they have the talent or are they forced to remain on the sidelines?

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Responses:

• From: Srikanth (@ 231.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Tue Jun 16 00:02:51 EDT 1998
  
  Hi
  Fantastic!, this has been going for a long time in my brain - there was only one female composer - i forgot her name in telugu.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Manisekaran (@ bat-50-69.tm.net.my) on: Tue Jun 16 02:30:52 EDT 1998
  
  Badri Ragavan
  Soolamangalam Sisters and P.Banumathy have been MDs. This has been discussed earlier. Please see "Padatha Pengal" Thread.
  Thanks
  
  
• From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Tue Jun 16 05:41:44 EDT 1998
  
  Badri:
  
  Here is the link for the thread that Manisekaran
  mentioned:
  
  http://newtfmpage.com/forum/21964.08:38:37.html
  
  You will notice that much of the material in that
  thread is digression. Your question was really
  never discussed. So it is still open for discussion. We can also enlarge our discussion
  to include female lyricists.
  
  My own view is the following. The reason is not
  lack of talent, but the apprehension... whether
  one can succeed in the TFM world which is dominated
  by males. The latest Kungumam (12 June 98) has
  a short interview with Priyadharshini. She is
  the daughter of one Mr. Venkatesh who has taught
  Piano and music composing for 40 years. (People
  like BalaBarathy and Jayanth are his students.)
  Priyadharshini has spent many many years at
  Trinity College formally learning music. In Guitar,
  she holds LCTL (Licentiate of Trinity College of
  Music, London) -- the only female from India to
  get this degree. She has composed music for a
  number of advertisements in TV.
  
  To the question:
  
  TFM-il peN isai amaippaaLargaL
  yaarum vetri peRavillaiyE? ungaLukku nambikkai
  irukkiRadhaa?
  
  she says:
  
  abaara nambikkai irukkiRadhu. 'ivaL peNdhaanE'
  endru odhukkaamal niRaya vaayppu tharappattaal
  nichchayam nalla isaiyai ennaal thara mudiyum.
  
  She is currently composing music for two movies:
  'Anandha Pandavare' and 'Ariyaasanam'. Let us
  hope that she succeeds and lead the way for more
  female MDs.
  
  p.s. It seems Priyadharshini is not her original
  name. Her father originally named her as:
  I-Love-You-Susheel! She has two sisters
  and their original names are: You-Love-Me-Shaaleen
  and Sweet-Love-SoltOmy. How is it? :-))
  
  
• From: I-Love-All-Names (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Tue Jun 16 08:23:32 EDT 1998
  
  Priyadarshiniyin badhil romba interestingaga ulladhu. By the way, Mani mekalai enru oru penn isai amaippaalar "Naalaiya theerpu" enra padathirkku isai amaithaar. Idhu dhaan Vijayin mudhal padam.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-wa033.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jun 16 13:13:49 EDT 1998
  
  Hmmm....same question, with a few more answers this time. Let me just expand on Keerthi's point a bit to provide a part of the answer as to why:
  
  1. apprehension as to whether she can succeed in a male-dominated world without compromising personal principles and self-identity as a woman.
  2. the inherent knowledge that it will be an up-hill battle all the way, where, unlike her male counterparts, she has to be constantly proving herself on the basis of her qualifications to overcome gender bias among the old-fashioned producers/directors/fellow-artistes.
  3. the automatic apprehension re the entertainment industry where women are seen largely as objects for exploitation rather than as a talent pool (notable exceptions apply, of course).
  
  Women have had to fight the same old double standards and apprehensions in several professional fronts regardless of whether it's India or the US or elsewhere, have overcome some of these barriers to some extent, and are successful leaders in these fronts today. I believe it will just be a matter of time before we get female MDs of significant stature in TFM.
  
  Priyadharshini appears to have the qualifications, optimism and social awareness/insights a person in her position needs, judging by her responses. It remains to be seen whether her music has mass audience appeal, of course.
  
  
• From: Chandramouli (@ kcpxy3.att.com) on: Tue Jun 16 14:20:25 EDT 1998
  
  Guys,
  Quite an interesting question to ponder about. We have had good female singers who have also composed some songs in the Carnatic world. So I guess its more like nobody had really got a chance to do it. Iam sure there is plenty of talent among them. The most notable female MD that I know of and somebody who has been given pretty good tunes is Usha Khanna in HFM. Films like "Southen" etc are her creations. I guess its just somebody needs the time and energy for it as its very demanding esp. when u are competing with greats like IR,MSV, ARR etc who have already established themselves. I think the producers should do something about this. I believe that Shobha Chandrasekhar did do the MD for one of her own movies, the one she did after she directed Mamta Kulkarni. Iam not pretty sure about this. A new female MD in TFM should be a welcome change and who knows could bring something altogether new to TFM. My opinion is that no producer is rather bold enough to try somebody new and who happens to be a female. Maybe , I repeat maybe, there are not many takers too.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Jun 16 17:16:17 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth, The telugu composer, did she happen to be a teenage prodigy? I read in Kumudham some years ago that SPB sang for her movie and was amazed at the girl's knowledge. Telugu movie fans, info please. Ravi, I know I'm testing your patience with this digression but just to get a fact that's all.
  
  
• From: Mano (@ eislib2.uwaterloo.ca) on: Thu Jun 18 14:17:22 EDT 1998
  
  In an Interview with VM regarding women poets in Cinema:
  Q: Why are there not many women poets writing
  lyrics for cinema?
  Yes. There are not many. It is mainly due to
  the dearth of women lyricists in Tamil in
  general. After Sangam literature, the list is
  not long. Our emotions are generally
  suppressed nowadays. Emotions are not let
  out. (In a movie song, emotions are let out.
  Women may be a little shy of freely
  expressing the feelings in a movie lyric.)
  
  Do you believe that the emotions are let out in movie songs??? I don't think so. Why couldn't VM give a logical answer? Perhaps, he is part of the male dominated lyrics writers and he do not want to accept it.
  
  Anyhow above interview can be found in:
  http://www.indolink.com/tamil/cinema/Specials/98/June/vaira/vairamuthu.htm
  
  Cheers
  Mano
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Thu Jun 18 17:29:39 EDT 1998
  
  Mano, you are dead on about VM. He is a bonafide chauvenist. If not he would have let his own wife (Thangamani, who's a pretty good poet in her own right)into the cine field. And if you notice his feelings about women in the songs he has written it becomes abundantly clear that he deems them in very restrictive terms.
  Here's an excerpt from "Samsaaram Athu Minsaaram"
  "Thannadakkam Venumamma
  Penmaikkathu Nallathamma"
  And in countless songs he has written the sentiments (as sung by the female lead of course)that pretty much profess that she(the female character) was born to be savored by him (the male character). I know this thread is not about VM, but he does stand for the boys club that is the TF industry.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Fri Jun 19 10:20:09 EDT 1998
  
  How about Kannadhasan's daughter Vaishali? I hear she's pretty good and does a TV show, but we don't get it here. She met her husband on the show and is apparantly very outspoken.....She sounds like a strong woman and it'd be nice if she writes lyrics too. Any comments?
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Fri Jun 19 10:33:46 EDT 1998
  
  kaNNadhAsan's daughter is visAli kaNNadhAsan and she is not an MD. She is a poet & has been a lyricist for a few TFM songs. She also acted in one KB movie : vAnamE ellai.
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Fri Jun 19 10:35:42 EDT 1998
  
  VM's wife is ponmaNi.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Jun 19 13:19:38 EDT 1998
  
  Thanks for the correction pg, I knew it was two gems to go with the two gems in VM's name, quite a pair.
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ dante.cs.wmich.edu) on: Fri Jun 19 15:31:26 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya i disagree on your views on vairamuthus
  cahuvinism. He has written quite a few songs on
  penn perumai and freedom . Examples
  
  pennae kalangaadhae idhu aan desamae
  penmai arasaalum oru kaalam varumae(from the song thaiye thaiye)
  
  pennai punnai kaanum kaalam illai
  podhum podhum thanimai(alai meedhu thadumaarudhe)
  
  Thadumaarum sila nyangal
  idhanaal dhan pala kaayangal
  kanneril thallaadum pen deepangal(from the same song)
  
  
  oomaikkum naakugal vendumamma
  urimaikku poridavendumamma
  
  etc...
  
  
• From: Mano (@ gaff151.watstar.uwaterloo.ca) on: Fri Jun 19 20:21:55 EDT 1998
  
  Ramki:
  Udhaya is right. How many of them can you list? You wouldn't find many.
  
  I could list more:
  Pennai Padaikathey Pirambaney... Nenjil Aadum Poo Onru
  I could list many more, but the list is too big to write it.
  
  Cheers
  Mano
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Jun 19 21:48:41 EDT 1998
  
  Ramki and Mano, this looks like a healthy Patti Mandram topic. Maybe we can start Patti Mandram III, "Is Vairamuthu a chauvenist? Yes or No, show evidence from TFM". This way the original intent of this thread will continue undeterred by us. Should we? Opinions please.
  
  
• From: Mano (@ tesla.uwaterloo.ca) on: Sat Jun 20 00:44:44 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya:
  Why not?
  
  Cheers
  Mano
  
  
• From: badri raghavan (@ 206.103.12.125) on: Sat Jun 20 01:02:10 EDT 1998
  
  hi friends,
  
  banumathy ramakrishna tried her hand in md (some used to call her ashtavadhani) but could not make a mark (debatable whether she made a mark as an actress or as a singer- i hope this provokes somebody).
  
  i think this is the trend in the industry where females are treated more as a prop or as a bogha porul and not treated as an artiste. this is true of the entire film industry in india (save the exception of lata mangeshkar in hfm who is a brand in her own right)
  
  suhasini tried her hands at direction (indira) and if i remember right began her career as a oLipadhivaLar under balu mahendra but is even known only as an actress. does these professions such as MD call for certain skills such as uninterrupted concentration, stamina etc which most females cannot afford to provide? or will the orchestra players feel below their dignity to play to the tunes of a female md or the singers do not want to oblige?
  
  not long ago, talented violonists and percussionists in the carnatic music arena refused to play for female vocalists and gave some reasons that the vocalist's sruthis is too high for effective accompaniment. are we facing this kind of discrimination in tfm even today?
  
  are there courses for music direction in the film institute and if there are, how many are females and how many are males?
  
  if producers and directors can afford to give opportunities for unknown youngsters as MDs surely the lack of female md's is not because risk taking is found wanting in producers.
  
  is there a demand & is there a supply?
  
  i am sure there are very knowledgeable surfers who frequent tfm discussion forum and i look forward to their views.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-to013.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Jun 20 11:25:43 EDT 1998
  
  Badri:
  I think your response is similar to mine above and has taken it a step further. With the limited knowledge I have of the industry, let me try to share my thoughts in response to yours.
  
  i think this is the trend in the industry where females are treated more as a prop or as a bogha porul and not treated as an artiste. this is
  true of the entire film industry in india
  
  Very very true. My words above might have been a bit harsher than yours: women, with notably few exceptions, are nothing but sex objects to be exploited for financial gains in this industry.
  
  does these professions such as MD call for
  certain skills such as uninterrupted concentration, stamina etc which most females cannot afford to provide?
  
  Any serious profession calls for talent, perseverance/stamina, a desire to excel and some people skills [and a supportive, equally liberated spouse :-)].
  My belief is that these factors are not gender-specific; they have been made to appear gender-specific due to centuries of suppression and social conditioning. However, quite a few of us have been successful in breaking through the "glass ceilings" and "the good old boys network" today in our respective professions.
  
  Progress in the TFM world will be much much slower, I suspect, than my personal experience in the corporate world in the US/India or other women professionals' experiences in other fronts.
  
  >or will the orchestra players
  >feel below their dignity to play to the tunes of >a female md or the
  >singers do not want to oblige?
  >
  
  I think a female MD with a good standing with the director/producer will get the best from the orchestra regardless of what the musicians feel about "playing to a female's tune"; how they talk about her behind her back is a different issue, of course. They have a job to do and are getting paid to do that; if they don't do it they're out of a job, simple (fact of life, no judgments here on labor issues).
  
  are there courses for music direction in the film institute and if there
  are, how many are females and how many are males?
  
  I don't have precise numbers, but I suspect it's not 50-50. This still remains a "non-traditional" arena for women like Engineering used to be several years back, for reasons discussed above. But times will change, as always.
  
  if producers and directors can afford to give opportunities for unknown youngsters as MDs surely the lack of female md's is not because risk
  taking is found wanting in producers.
  
  Well, as a rule, risk-taking is wanting in producers/directors given the megabudgets they deal with today. You will be surprised to know how many thousands of aspiring, young MDs we don't see to each Vidyasagar or Shiva we do see/hear on the silver screen.
  And, even if the producers take a risk, they'd prefer to do so with a person with whom they feel "safer" based on their social biases (human nature).
  
  To sum, there are talented women around, but are fewer in number in this particular area, the old hypocricies still exist, but with a "critical mass" in time, we will eventually see a female MD in TFM. Just don't know in which century, that's all :-)
  
  

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