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Patti Mandram

Topic started by NO Valen (@ 202.184.134.10) on Fri Aug 1 03:37:29 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• From: NO Valen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Fri Aug 1 03:43:18 EDT 1997
  
  Thozhargaley,
  Lately the Discussion Forum has become a listing exercise! Ithil adiyeinin pangeiyum nadru unargindrein!
  Let us now make this forum a debate where you are only allowed one opinion - no two ways about it. You can go on and on to explain why your stand is so.. but you cannot change your opinion midway (ahem, ahem!) The title of the debate?
  Isaikku paadalaa? Paadalukku isaiyaa?
  Background: Before IR, except for a handful, lyrics for most songs were written first and then given to the MD to compose music for. Times have changed. Is this for better or worse? Your opinions please....
  
  
• From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.135.224) on: Fri Aug 1 05:21:39 EDT 1997
  
  Paadal koduththu isai amaippathu romba
  kashtamaana velai. It needs lot
  of experience and patience from the MD.
  If followed, it will definitely
  give very good songs for TFM. (Because
  lyricist now is not restrained from
  fitting words to tune. )
  But this is too unrealistic for current day
  scene.
  
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-td42.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Aug 1 11:04:46 EDT 1997
  
  The ideal scenario is for the lyrics to be written first and then set to music. That way, lyrics fit the scene and are more meaningful. Even though it is challenging to set a tune to a kavithai, it has been done by the MD's of yester-years successfully. So why can't it be done by today's MD's too? Or, is it too challenging, for some of them?
  
  (Nammoor, are you a self-appointed moderator? What is your opinion?)
  
  
• From: Satish Subramanian (@ pulsar.cs.umn.edu) on: Fri Aug 1 12:09:32 EDT 1997
  
  When this question was put to some lyricists, the response
  was: "We have always been writing lyrics to a given 'chandham'"
  This is nothing new. Even songs in old literature have the 'metre' or
  "chandham" as the guiding tune. The words are written to fit
  the metre. The lyricists have no problems with that.
  
  Ilayaraja has said that he is ready to set to tune any lyric!
  There is not limitation for him either. So where is the problem?
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Fri Aug 1 12:33:13 EDT 1997
  
  IMO, lyricsukku thaan music compose seyya vendum. Music should be good of course. And pattum padaththodu inaindhu irukkavendum. In recent TFM, all songs are dream songs only and they go in a different track altogether. I could observe that the right combination came out in the movie "Avatharam". The movie was first of all a masterpiece. Indha padathil paattodu poRulum kadhaiyum inaindhu irukkum. It is rare to see such movies now. Lyricsukku eththa madhiri pattu isai amaippadhu dhaan oru MDin talentai veLipadduthum. Adhu dhaan janangal manadhil nirkkum. MSV kalathil lyrics matrum music irandum nandraga irundhadhu. But music was not given so much importance as it is now. Kannadasan was there to show his genius.
  
  IR gave excellent music and most of his songs did have good lyrics. But IR's magical music made people forget movies, kavidhai and the like. So, I think it all started with IR. Ivar kalaththil dhaan indha pattukkeththa madhiri lyrics ezhutha aarambithargal endru ninaikkiren. An example could be the song "Mazhai varuvathu" in Rishimoolam. The music is excellent but you can see that the song is too fast and you do not understand the words properly. SJ sung it with ease, but it is very difficult for anyone to repeat it. Another song is "Oh ranga sri ranga koppara thenga Inge parunga narthanga muththuna manga" in Singaravelan. This song is very vulgar and very much suited to Kamal's perverted ideas. Alas! now lyrics have become a total mess. Vairamuthu pudhu kavidhaigal have gone to the extent that it is no more pudhu kavidhai, but pudhu kochchai. This became worse only with ARR and Vairamuthu combination. He wrote words like "Sindhum veyarvai theerthamagum" etc. etc.. People cannot deny that. Vali is an excellent lyricist, but as someone pointed out in a discussion to keep himself in the market he has also started writing crap.
  
  
• From: PG (@ igw2.merck.com) on: Fri Aug 1 13:36:17 EDT 1997
  
  I don't think it is proper to blame IR. In most cases Kannadhaasan too had to write lyrics for MSV's tunes. There have been cases like 'Athathan ennathan' where MSV tuned for Kannadhaasan's lyrics.
  
  
• From: Gopal (@ host-207-53-5-184.atl.bellsouth.net) on: Fri Aug 1 15:32:22 EDT 1997
  
  Things have changed. Scoring music for lyrics is just not possible today.
  
  
• From: pallavaram pakkiri (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Fri Aug 1 16:33:06 EDT 1997
  
  andru: paadalukku isai
  indru: isaikku paadal
  idhu: kaalathin kattaayam
  
  nambilki thernja varlum janango ippo lyrics mukkaavaasi kekkaradheyilla. (note the mukkavaasi adjective here, that means the first two lines if they are catchy are always listened by everybody, and is often used while humming the song.) avangalki vonundradhu nalla beat'oda irukkara mustafa,mustafa maadhiriyana paattu dhEn! appidi irukkumbodhu nalla beats udan koodiya (beats endraal i mean isai, it could be kottaangachi or drums or pullanguzhal or anything but one that flows smoothly and sounds pleasing to the ears) isaikki eppidi paattu elludhinaalum
  adhu innikki hit aagum. idhu kaalathin kattaayam.
  
  idhu nalladhaa/kettadhaa'nnu ketteenganna, adhu oru thani topic. yEn, indraya musthaFa, musthaFa'vukkendre oru ppp pakkam future'la thaniya odhukka pattaalum aachariya padaraththukkille.
  
  idhula gavanikka vendiya innoru vishayam innanna andru msv/ramamurthy/kvm isaiyayum meeri paadalgalai ketka vaikka kannadasan irundaar. indru arr/ir'in isaiya meeri (consistent aaga) paadalgalai ketka vaikkum capacity yaarukku irukkudhu. vairamuthu'va eduthukitteenganna weak aana tubelight madhiri eppavaavadhu oru vaati erinjittu gappu gappu nu anainji poyidaraaru. vaali fuse'e gaali. vera yaaruppa per sollumbadiyaa irukkaradhu.
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Fri Aug 1 16:46:24 EDT 1997
  
  To PP:
  neenga sariyana udans pakkiri. Mustafa mustafavil enna irukku analyse seyvatharku! Adharthu oru topic vera? appozhuthu neengal janangal muTTaL agi vittargal melum aavargaal ena solla varugireergala!
  
  Catchy songs like humma humma die very fast where as songs with great lyrics will be immortal and will be every heard for long and relished! I disagree that songs should have only music without strong lyrics. If it happens like that TFM will become very kochchai and music will lose its importance in tamil films. Any contradictions?
  Tamil irukkura varaikkum there is no dearth for tamil kavidhai or kavignargal. Vairamuthu endra bulb fuse aana Halogen bulb madhiri innoru bulb kandippaga varum.
  
  "kal thondri maN thondra kalaththe
  vandhu muN thondriya tamizh"
  
  endru theriyadhaa ungulakku, Mr.PP??
  
  
• From: pallavaram pakkiri (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Fri Aug 1 17:45:43 EDT 1997
  
  cp:
  Thaleivaa, romba tenson aavaadheengo.
  May be I chose a wrong song. But solla vandha karuthil siridhum pizhaiyillai endru panivudan koorikkolgiren.
  I am not saying that songs should have only music without strong lyrics, but for a song to become a hit in TODAY's TFIndustry, strong lyrics is not a necessary Ingrediant endru dhaan solla varugiren/vandhen. please read my posting again.
  idhu nalladhaa/kettadhaa ena kettal adhu oru thani topic endru sonnenillayaa, kadaseela paatha adhu dhaan topic'e. Adharku kaalam dhaan badhil solla vendum. enakku ennamo elandapayam ellam oru epic aagum bodhu hamma hamma vukku enna kuraichal endru thondrugiradhu nanbare.
  (As a point aside, enakkum ungalai pola thamizh padangalil nalla lyrics+music ulla paadalgal mattum vendum endru aasai dhaan, aanal indraiya nilai enna enbadhai oru nimidam yosikkavum, ninaippadhellaam nadandhu vittaal...
  By the way namba rendu 'per'um nallaa rhyme aagudhulla, cp vs. pp, server sundaram nagesh style'il: 'inge rendu kaappi')
  
  
• From: Natarajan (@ pryout.mecon.com) on: Fri Aug 1 19:37:38 EDT 1997
  
  1) In general , plain kavithai is 1000 time better than lyrics in movie song.
  2) But lyrics in movie song has 1000 time more impact in our heart than plain kavithai (eg. Un kannal pirarku azhuthal , kannerum anandham anandham). It just because of music tune.
  3) So tune gives more power to lyrics.
  4) If someone is interested in lyrics, he/she can read a good literature. But most of us ,who love music ,are not willing to listen just instrumental music. So we listen songs mainly for music. So give first preference to tune, then to lyrics.
  Thanks
  
  
  
  
• From: NOV@Naduvar! (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Fri Aug 1 23:54:42 EDT 1997
  
  Besides your opinion, can you all also tell us which should come first: lyrics or music. This is in particular reference to Rajaraman, Satish, PG and Gopal.
  The score now is two for lyrics first and 2 for music first.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ ww-tc22.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Aug 2 10:02:50 EDT 1997
  
  Seting tune for the lyric is not practical in these highly competetive dog eats dog days. In kannadasan's era (60's in particular) there were hardly 50-75 movies were made in an year. Now it is close to 200. Of course we have 10 times more no. of MDs (so called) now. But to become a MD now all it takes is to listen to diff. western music videos and use them in bits & pieces or copy them blatantly. If a new law is passed that music should be scored only after lyric is written,
  then most of new breed MDs vanish in thin air.
  
  
• From: NOValen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Mon Aug 4 04:47:04 EDT 1997
  
  Ravi,
  MD's also have to put on their thinking caps to come up with a tune. Lets disregard the copycats - they are more the exception than the rule. But basically, which one is preferable - is the discussion in this forum.
  
  
• From: pallavaram pakkiri (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com) on: Mon Aug 4 15:58:35 EDT 1997
  
  cp:
  I thought you were a guy;
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Mon Aug 4 16:02:51 EDT 1997
  
  PP:
  So what PP? Manasa thalara vudatheenga? Internet is where minds only interact. Don't worry about genders.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Mon Aug 4 17:06:14 EDT 1997
  
  To N O valen:
  Composing a song to lyrics is always preferrable - wishful thinking ?.
  when MDs can compose good tunes for Bharatiyar songs why can't they do it like that for other songs. Then Vairamuthu & others will have to find some other excuse for bad lyrics.
  
  
• From: thiruvuRai aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Mon Aug 4 20:26:10 EDT 1997
  
  Lyrics first or music first? Of course, lyrics. Good MD's can musiccify
  any tough song. Ex., manadhil uRudhi vENdum by mIsa mAmA. I don't think
  it follows any particular meter, but there are approximately twelve
  asais (similar to syllable) in each line except for the last one which has
  only 8, I believe. The last
  three asais ohm, ohm, ohm poses extreme challenge for music composition.
  Many version are available in TF but rAjA's is, in my opinion, the best (sinDhuBhairavi).
  All BhArathiyAr songs vouch for this arguement. If EVEN ARR can musiccify
  indhiraiyO ivaL sundhariyO support for music first vanishes.
  
  
• From: NOValen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Wed Aug 6 05:52:36 EDT 1997
  
  To: cp & PP:
  cp pennuna PP yein manasa thalara vuda venum? Genders also play a part in internet so that we can have balanced representations and views! Nalla vehlei Kovaluthaan cp-yoda purushen-nu sollittaange. Illavitta kanda pasenga ellam daa-vadikka vanthuruvaanga!
  OK! can we go back to the matter at hand. Paataa? Isaiyaa? Ungal mudivu?
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Wed Aug 6 17:09:40 EDT 1997
  
  Keezhkanda indha varigalai konjam padiyungaL:
  "achak pachak dimikadikkira dolumayya dabsa uttaanpaaru kapsaa
  apsakallu maariyaa aathupakkam vaariyaa" - In Suriyan - Definitely a super hit song. But ippadi tamizh koLai seyya arambiththaL thondu thottru naam kappatri varum tamizh mozhi ennagum?
  
  Idho innoru pattu from Avatharam:
  "Thendral vandhu theendum bodhu enna vannamo manasiley
  thingaL vandhu kayumbodhu enna vannamo ninaipiley
  vandhu vandhu pogudhamma ennamellam vannamamma
  eNNangalukkeththapadi vaNNamellam marumamma" - I understand that this is also a song with lyrics tuned for music. But there is no compromise in terms of lyrics too.
  
  Manasai thottu sollungaL. Endha paadal manadhil nirkkum? "achak pachak" mousellam konja naaL dhaan. Definitely a song with good lyrics only will become an evergreen hit. My vote is for "Pattukkuththaan isai". Nothing to beat lyrics when it comes to a good song.
  
  Why can't lyricists write such kavidhai which will not compromise tamizh for music? Definitely, there are talented youths in TN who can give their best. In the name of technology and revolutionisation of music, MDs are compromising tamizh for music.
  
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-td02.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Aug 6 18:18:26 EDT 1997
  
  CP:
  I have already voted for lyrics over music in TFM. So I agree with the first part of your logic.
  
  The second part of your argument is internally inconsistent: "MD's who are compromising Thamizh in the name of technology and revolutionization"...???!!! MD's compose (or should I say blend) music, and are not lyricists. The same Vairamuthu who wrote "Naetru Illaadha Maatram" also writes "Figuru figurudhaan idhu super figurudhaan" kind of stuff; I bet both were written to a set tune, so why the difference?. As I've said in another thread, the movie Director is ultimately accountable for the entire package.
  
  Coming back to the patti mandram topic, I find one common theme among the people who argue for music first: "It's not practical or realistic in these days to set music to the lyrics".
  Why are we so quick to find excuses like "Kaalathin Kolam", "these fiercely competitive days" etc.? We, as the paying audience for movies/cassettes/CD's, are the ones who have the right and power to make or break careers. What do we want? Lyrics set to good music or meaningless mush set to (sometimes) beautiful music???
  
  
  
• From: ? (@ karnali.mos.com.np) on: Sat Nov 15 09:49:29 EST 1997
  
  Hi. I'm from Nepal and I was just looking for some lyrics websites when I stumbled upon your site. Then I saw this little box down here and decided I'd write in. All your names seem to be South Asian and I can pick out certain words in your writing. What language are you guys speaking? what kind of music do you listen to?
  
  
• From: / (@ karnali.mos.com.np) on: Sat Nov 15 09:55:35 EST 1997
  
  I just came back from a tour of all that excite has to offer under 'lyrics' and still no response. Oh well. I guess nobodys here. Namaste and goodbye.
  
  
• From: !! (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Thu Nov 20 05:32:09 EST 1997
  
  Mr ? and ?
  
  We speak Tamil and the music we listen to is Tamil film music!
  
  
• From: Srinivasan (@ 203.120.90.50) on: Wed May 27 06:12:14 EDT 1998
  
  I just happened to see this topic today and I am not sure whether it is still on. Nonetheless ....I go on.
  
  Which is first Music or Lyrics - definitely Lyrics All great compositions were written first and then set to tune including saint Thiagaraja's krithis. If MD is capable, even those can be made popular. eg. Sankarabharanam, Kappalotiya Thamizhan and other Bharathiyar pattukkal. If poet is capable then sometimes, even within the set tune, he can write good songs like " Amma endru azhaikatha uyirillaye ".
  
  However I think in today's conditions, this topic has become irrelevant, because there are no lyrics at all to talk about or if even there is one, they are meaningless words. There are only tunes today and also all songs are in one directions - kaathal, kaathal. For tunes, take for example, songs like "ooh lalala" in Electric dreams, "coloumbus" in Jeans. What are the meanings of these songs compared to the famous songs of yester years.
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Thu May 28 17:53:50 EDT 1998
  
  Srinivasan, nice to know that I'm not the only one roaming the dead discussions in the Archives. I feel strongly about lyrics in songs too, but there should be a good understanding between the poet and the musician so as to bolster each other's creativity. I'm sure in MSV's days some good music was overlooked to accomodate Kannadhasan and nowadays some good lyrics are probably discarded to fit the slots of the tune or rhyme scheme. My judgement is, neither should rule over the other.
  
  
• From: rajiv subrahmanyam (@ 202.141.24.2) on: Wed Jul 1 06:23:45 EDT 1998
  
  composing music first and fitting lyrics later leads to the extinction of the 'talking song' species. could 'hello my dear wrong number' have been composed without a lyrical base? no.
  
  

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