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What Caused ARR\'s Downfall...

Topic started by Disappointed Fan (@ 209.197.252.8) on Sat Sep 20 04:24:40 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I was really impressed when Roja came out and I kept looking out for such impressive release after that. But to date, so far non of his film has any impact of Roja. There may be some good ones along the way but that I can get it from other TFM MDs. It\'s really disappointing that he has never matched any song compared to Chinna Chinna Aasai. For the last 7 years or so I keep yearning but to no avail. So many of his albums are of mediocre level. I really would like to know what caused ARR\'s downfall?

1) Trying too much in other fields and ignoring Tamil films?
2) Trying to fuse in too much western pop/rock and making listeners irritated?
3) Trying to be both Mozart and Michael Jackson of India?
4) Using so many different singers and not having any identity?
5) Again infusing too many English words to make it more hype?
6) Concentrating alot on sound quality and not giving importance to musical quality?
7) Or just limited talent?

It\'s really heart-ching to see someone I used to like go down like that.

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Responses:

• From: JK (@ 61.11.83.161) on: Sat Sep 20 05:37:34 EDT 2003
  
  In my opinion, 2,3,4,5,6 and 7 are correct..
  regarding your 1st point.. who cares if he is in TN or go outside TN?
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.110) on: Sat Sep 20 09:15:16 EDT 2003
  
  Disappointed Fan
  
  None of the list you mentioned above.
  
  Only one reason.
  
  Entry of new MD's HJ and YSR. These both could make same style of ARR and better than ARR's recent album in better ARR's style.
  Now ARR has to find some new trend to win them.
  This is the only reason.
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.98.2) on: Sat Sep 20 14:41:54 EDT 2003
  
  xml
  
  For once I kind of agree with you!
  
  I kind of agree YSR,HJ,VS have come and started giving same music as ARR.
  
  But ARR's biggest blunder which he is committying repeatedly is that he wants to distinguish himself from this ARR-like group of VS,HJ,YSR and he forces himself to do unnecessary over-experimentation and gives sshit like Baila more and YE YE Ennaaachu.
  
  
  I was listening to Deepak Dev's Chronis Bachelor a malayalam album . ALl songs remind me of the ARR-era of early 1990s. I was trying hard to find out what was different then and I understood that he had only maximum of two instruments including the keyboard chords to accompany his simple tunes.
  
  
  But nowadays he gives very ccomplicated and bizzaare stuff like Thiruvallikeni Raaaney (not ni) and he confounds us more with the extra fitting noise and ornamented crap in the name of experimentation.
  
  In short his experimentation has gone bizzare nowadays by allowing ppl like pravin mani etc to add masala to already complex weird tunes.
  
  I dont agree with any of the points from 1-7 mentioned by the thread starter
  
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.110) on: Sat Sep 20 15:54:48 EDT 2003
  
  V
  I agree with you except VS. VS is in the film industry from the time of ARR ruling. Still ARR could give mega hits. Recently VS gave some hits.Thats all.
  
  But HJ and YSR entry only made ARR's fall. We can not even say any one alone. Both performed together equally at the same time and still doing.
  
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Sat Sep 20 17:03:58 EDT 2003
  
  xml
  There is no such thing as a downfall as the "starter of the thread" mentioned, he just has a faded popularity in TFM i guess. Though Boyz should have stirred up the popularity with all the hype sorrounding hte music and film, it failed the expectations I guess.
  
  V
  I kind-a mentioned in my previous post the same thing, Keep it Simple and make it big (famous quote by Terry Bradshaw of American football fame).. ARR does this over experimentation, which
  1. delays the movies
  2. falls short of the decent melody
  3. it starts good but ends bad sometimes..
  
  it is like too many cooks spoil the broth..
  
  Nobody wants to start something to die badly, but sometimes it happens, sometimes the competition is better than you..
  
  In my opinion.
  
  loosing appeal and popularity(not downfall):
  1. Too much hype
  2. Delays in the production of music
  3. Trying to stay different
  4. People change much faster than in previous decades.
  5. Last but not the least, the target audience is widespread than localized (which is really hard to cater)..
  
  
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.98.2) on: Sat Sep 20 17:21:00 EDT 2003
  
  Nethi Adi MIL!!!
  
  point 3 and 5 on losing appeal and popularity are just so good that I cant agree with you more!!
  
  
  Yes Hype also plays a role, but I think ARR is too talented to cater to the over-expectations. He is capable. Boys was over-hyped and IMO I think he gave a smashing score. It won all expectations in my department. I cant ask more.
  
  
  "too many cooks spoil the broth"?? haha this is amazing!! I was going to write the same words but resorted to masala addition by pravin mani.
  
  Basically nowadsys you find too many instruments playing in ARR's music that the simplicity or harmony is hiddden in this wrapper of ornamented experimental sshit sounds added by pravin mani and the likes.
  
  ARR should dit down one day and listen to and olden goldie like may maadham. A song like "Yen mel vizhundha" and he should analyse how the song was uplifting only by its melody, voice, interludes and ofcourse the ARR trademark chords!!
  
  Nobody in my opinion can arouse me with such beatiful chords and such efficay in ambience than ARR.
  
  I mean nobody in the world can do it for me!!!!
  
  But now?? this man ARR wants to complicate his music by swaying away from simple chords, brilliant interludes to tooo much instruments, samples, loops.
  
  As a human respecting the freedom of choice of another MD I agree with ARR's need to be different from the clones, but in the process of differentiating he is infusing unsavory "over experimentation" which does not click with our tamil masses right now.
  
  Our masses are still used to simple music. Something tells me that scores like thiruvallikeni Rani will be more apt to TFM fans 10 years from now when we are more open to complex world music influences through media, satelite tv, foriegn movies. Hope fully for the best.
  
  
• From: xml (@ 128.148.68.110) on: Sat Sep 20 17:55:50 EDT 2003
  
  MIL
  
  I fully accept the 2. Delays in the production of music. This was the reason for the success of HJ,YSR,VS.
  But rest all not a matter if he could balance with the rest. He did already till alaipayuthe. He could secceed in HFM and TFM.
  
  But while ARR composing for a film in a long time(many movies for year), YSR,HJ simply could deliver the same kind of music in a short time. It turned the audience to HJ,YSR. Because they can not wait till ARR deliver the music.
  
  The rest 1,3-5 was the reason for the succes of ARR during IR's time.
  
  
• From: Piratheepan (@ 68.88.4.10) on: Sat Sep 20 19:31:06 EDT 2003
  
  I think it's because
  1) his albums don't come out as often.
  2) New MD's just copy his style so he tries somethign different each time which is too much for many simple minds.
  3) wider selection of music now
  4) internet which has affected the whole music industry
  
  
• From: isai_nanban (@ 68.77.8.29) on: Sat Sep 20 23:28:16 EDT 2003
  
  basically, ARR was very youthful, songs in Indian , especlly telephone manipol, azhagana ratchasiye were the real urban sounds manifested by rahman. problem with rahman is, he was only that much. when he tried to diversify, he became contrived and superficial. no spontaneity, no energy and nothing exciting and avant-garde. IR at that time in each of his movies was going wild, breakneck speed, writing original passages, innovative tunes in even in a unimpressive song situation or song itself. rahman is only so little that the new generation could absorb it, but IR is way out of belief or the norm that beyond souht India, it will take a lot of musical initiation for the audience to even absorb 1/100th of IR' output. But rahman has exhausted all his potential simply by looking at the pace of his output and energy levels in it. he has been the most overrated of all composers (like KVMahadevan is the most underrated, when he should be one of the all time greats of Indian music), but signalled the dawn of COMMERCIALIZATION IN THE FILM INDUSTRY. Art is gone, commerce and marketing is in. simple as that.
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.98.2) on: Sat Sep 20 23:38:21 EDT 2003
  
  I respect your opinion isai_nanban, but I vehemently disagree with everything you have said. Sounds like regular IR-camp cribbing to me atleast.
  
  Piratheepan no 2 is the best answer to the thread's question. Though I still maintain he is on vacation, not a downfall :)
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Sun Sep 21 10:15:09 EDT 2003
  
  Piratheepan,
  I dont want to be anti, but is it not the simple minds to be satisfied first? In my opinion at the surface it should be very much liked by simple minds and then on top of it, critics and so music jambavans to explain more detail about intricacies. So i don't accept your point 2
  
  "New MD's just copy his style so he tries somethign different each time" I agree
  
  "which is too much for many simple minds" I dont agree.
  
  I am a simple mind!! and my Music knowledge is not that I can boast about, but will surely learn each and everytime..
  
  
• From: Piratheepan (@ 68.89.47.98) on: Sun Sep 21 12:47:56 EDT 2003
  
  What i mean by too much for simple minds is that no one likes change in india as seen in tamil films. There alwasy seems to be a gana number-what is so great about gana? or like with ysr he always has the same types of music ( i will get back to you on this comment after getting the particular songs) which i mean in winner, april madhathil, etc there is always a song sung by him in his movies and tehy all sound similair
  
  This is actually one thread that is interesting keep it up.People actually talking about music.=)
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Sun Sep 21 13:13:41 EDT 2003
  
  Piratheepan
  But the fact remains, whether simple or not, they have to cater to the TF business and make some money.. where Quality is just compromised for some reason, I dont mean to say it is the right thing, but sometimes it just becomes kind of acceptable.
  People who like Gana might differ from your opinion though
  
  But i accept your point of montonous music, and lack of creativity assuming something as a trend.
  
  
• From: AyoPattikitchu (@ 24.42.88.25) on: Sun Sep 21 13:42:43 EDT 2003
  
  None of the reasons stated by Disappointed Fan justifies ARR's downfall. In fact he stated ARR's plus points. The only reason for ARR's downfall is the absent of Vairamuthus magical words, which fits into ARR any kind of music and generates a theme for the songs. If Viramuthu had penned the "Boys" songs, it would have been the number one album today. No music director dominates the TFM without a good lyricist contribution!!
  
  
• From: isai_nanban (@ 68.77.8.29) on: Sun Sep 21 14:31:10 EDT 2003
  
  V, even if you ask rahman he will admit it. he is just made his money with some fresh approach, which is not sustainable because he has to depend on amalgamating physically ideas from around the world. IR does not waste his time lookin for resources, he is own resource and he is self-contained (ARRquote). Music is not about creativity it is about spontaneity and emotional precision. It flows from the heart, the mind puts it in a structure. rahman is way past his stay, and he has done a good job while at it. fans just new to music itself only crave for his creativity, but veterans like me find his music wanting wanting wanting....... but, ARR has brought in a breath of fresh air in the whole music scene, no doubt....
  
  
  
  
  

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