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Musical Merits &Demerits of IR and ARR [Only for fans, not fanatics!]

Topic started by V (@ 147.129.99.180) on Thu Jul 17 16:26:37 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

To bring our healthy/unhealthy discussion on music merits and demeits of IRR and ARR out of the Thangar Bacchaan thread I starting this thread so that it would be more appropriate.

I expect people who post here to be fans and not typical fanatics. Expecially the young ARR fans and the "Theevira" Raja fans

Thanks!

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Responses:

• From: IRRRRRRRRRR (@ 141.202.248.12) on: Thu Jul 17 16:29:03 EDT 2003
  
  Oh No. Why do we even need this thread? We keep having flame wars daily here in every other thread
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.99.180) on: Thu Jul 17 16:31:57 EDT 2003
  
  Copied and pasted from the thread - WHo is doing Thangar Bachaan's next..
  
  ==================================
  
  Jag
  
  IR sure has been a trend-setter for introducing authentic folk, pure carnatic music by giving them a suitable theme in mainstream TFM.
  
  Same way ARR has just done this more globally by taking what we already knew and were exposed to and adding western slant to them to make them presentable to the whole of India and now even across the seas!
  
  Unfortunately ARR is accused of doing this while IR can be hailed for doing so!
  
  I have heard a lot of negative comments on IR from a lot of older people who are so faithful to Carnatic music. They contend that it is unfair on IR to 'dappankuthize' a "deivigamana" musical form.
  
  So do you expect me to reject IR totally because he does that? Even when they feel that way I agree with Udhayamoorthy's comment in "Unnal Mudiyum Thambi" that classical music must be moulded in a simple form to make it presentable to the common man.
  
  When this can be done why cant ARR westernize our Indian music?
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.99.180) on: Thu Jul 17 16:33:04 EDT 2003
  
  IRRRRRRRR
  
  This thread was started so that we dont post unncessarily in the Thangar Bacchaan thread.
  
  
• From: K (@ 63.126.250.163) on: Thu Jul 17 17:10:31 EDT 2003
  
  Sometime around early to mid 80's IR gradually lost sight of creative rhythms and dug his own grave which came to completion (I mean, the grave) in 1992, thanks to ARR.
  
  
• From: Admin (@ 128.148.68.110) on: Thu Jul 17 20:56:45 EDT 2003
  
  People Please download yahoo messanger in your computer for chatting.
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  People Please download yahoo messanger in your computer for chatting.
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  People Please download yahoo messanger in your computer for chatting.
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  People Please download yahoo messanger in your computer for chatting.
  
  
• From: Paran (@ 203.123.16.197) on: Thu Jul 17 22:58:58 EDT 2003
  
  IR is a genius in the sense of coming up with a suitable tunes immediately...he is rich of tunes..
  
  but often his composition have thin background,
  While ARR might take more time to come up with tunes but his background music are always rich with tunes, beats and Additional programming.
  
  If IR could do the same, he might even be appealing for International market..
  
  
  
• From: V (@ 141.149.235.21) on: Fri Jul 18 00:51:49 EDT 2003
  
  Paran agreed with you!
  
  :)
  
  
• From: ambleen (@ 61.8.210.77) on: Fri Jul 18 02:00:39 EDT 2003
  
  yes ARR will take more time....like a year or 2
  
  paran,
  
  don't be a bogus and worst still don't be a kinattru tavalai
  
  
• From: Paran (@ 203.123.16.197) on: Fri Jul 18 02:15:30 EDT 2003
  
  ha ha ha..
  i got ur point ambleen...no matter what..u still wanna comment on me...go ahead...
  it's a kinda success if someone comments on ur...that shows..u have been noticed...
  
  just look at you...i did said..ARR will take some time....let it be 2 years..or 4 years...at least the product is there in the market now...
  
  Err..dear Ulaga Thavalai(opposite of kinatre thavalai)...The Symphony..has been in the making for 10 years....rite?...
  
  just to remind u...that's all
  
  
• From: Paran (@ 203.123.16.197) on: Fri Jul 18 02:23:27 EDT 2003
  
  Anyway...sorry guys...(the rest)...not my intention to create havoc here...
  u shall not see my name in this thread anymore...
  sorry..
  
  
• From: xsl (@ 66.122.214.130) on: Fri Jul 18 03:40:03 EDT 2003
  
  "introducing authentic folk, pure carnatic music " .. I dont think so.. I think IR did fusion. enga folk music'la violin, piano, guitarellam use panraangala enna ? IR oda approach'la fundamental changes irukkum..ARR appadiyE veli nAttu rhythm eduthu (muzhusaa loopsaiyE) athukku mela oru tune add panniduvaru..IR ovvoru instrumentukku score ezhuthikkittu ..vocal's nalla stringsla backup pannara mathiri compose pannuvaru..matha aala iruntha ithai paththi perusa pEsikkittu iruppaanga..intha pozhaikka theriyatha aalu..ella padathukkum ithu mathiri detaila pannittu..ippa yaarukkum intha arumai theriya mattEnguthu..
  ARRum vishayam therinja aalu thaan..athukku pozhaikka therinja aalu..
  
  
• From: Vatsa (@ 160.83.32.14) on: Fri Jul 18 06:14:56 EDT 2003
  
  V,
  
  Nice that you started this thread. I hope this thread will talk something sensible without undermining ARR or IR.
  
  Vatsa
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.218.169) on: Fri Jul 18 06:52:00 EDT 2003
  
  it's just how amazing these guys approach a subject and compose music for it....compare their works with Bharathiraja(best natural director in tamil)... "pothi vacha malliga mottu" and "Porale ponnuthayi" which describes the love of an innocent village girl.. can u find any difference in the energy level between the songsss.... they are so amzingly refreshing and of same level.. hope u guys agree...
  
  Paran dude wat do you mean by u shall not see my name in this thread anymore..." come on man duntleave me alone.... ur the only ARR-anudhabi with me in this entire forum i think......
  
  
• From: Vatsa (@ 160.83.32.14) on: Fri Jul 18 07:33:02 EDT 2003
  
  Hi V,
  
  You have a point. International appeal is based on what you want to popularize. One popularize Indian music or popularize your idea of fusing music or your idea of music.
  
  International appeal is strongly based on westeners now, acheived by having the same or similar music form across Europe and Americas and Australia. We in Asia have different music form even from India to China. Now to popularize a music form across the globe, popular music form of now should be used because you cannot turn everyone overnight with cult music. Plus, our kind of music is too complicated in a raw form for popular music audience. I dont think ARR is doing anything wrong by mixing 60% western, 30% Indian and 10% others to make it international appeal. IR is not doing anything wrong either by sticking to the merits of each music form and sticking with it. I think that is the difference between the two now. The only wonder is that IR still can still be versatile than ARR.
  
  Vatsa
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.200.17.158) on: Fri Jul 18 09:09:32 EDT 2003
  
  Iran-Iraq, India-pakistan sandai ellam thalli nikkanum when compared to Ambleen-Paran's Singapore-Malaysia fight :)
  Funny these guys spend their entire lives fighting over which Indian is superior, ARR or IR ;)
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.200.17.158) on: Fri Jul 18 09:10:13 EDT 2003
  
  Ambleen for President, Paran for PM(for India of course)! ;)
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Fri Jul 18 10:46:10 EDT 2003
  
  Vatsa!!
  Gr8 thought!!
  Music is so complicated to be made international appeal.. I would not believe why i liked the song Yengayum yeppothum in ninathale inikkum (then i find I love Ozzy Osbourne's song Paranoid, basically I am Metal Fan). So International appeal is a just a frame of mind of the listener or his/her inherent liking for a particular genre of music call it fusion, raw format or anything.
  
  Versatility is a nice point to note!! (which i cannot comment), i have not seen any recent gr8 albums after Hey-Ram by IR.
  
  Probably somebody can suggest me a recent gr8 album by IR!!
  
  
• From: !!!!! (@ 68.77.11.141) on: Fri Jul 18 11:06:37 EDT 2003
  
  MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6)
  
  Hear Sambu songs - especially two of them are very superb. also, hear the other previous Telugu album. Anthapuram aluso very good.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.11.98.63) on: Fri Jul 18 12:08:40 EDT 2003
  
  MusicIsLife
  Also Ninu Choodaka Nenundalenu is brilliant.
  So is Dhanush and Julie Ganapathy. Oh Man! its been two years since Hey Ram! came out, IR has been still giving great stuff even after that.
  
  Vatsa,
  This kind of western hip hop being popular started only with the new sound technologies and music systems available. People just like to hear the music in a loud and clear volume without caring about the aesthetics of it.
  
  NSync is to USA what ARR is to us and still they reach us. Does this mean NSync is the most brilliant group? There is so much of beautiful Jazz and Country music which does not reach India as does Nsync etc, but people who like to listen to quality and creative music prefer those forms of music in the west (we can add new age artists, soft rock and some extremely talented R&B artists whose music still doesn't reach/appeal to all sections of Indian audience). And after years, in retrospect, these will be the people who will be remembered for doing something different without switching to popular, mostly youth, tastes. Even in US people above 35 would not prefer Britney Spears etc, they would rather go for soft melodies by Celine Dion or Blues or Jazz music.
  
  
  Jag
  
  
• From: To Jag (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Fri Jul 18 12:14:22 EDT 2003
  
  Jag,
  Are u equating NSync and ARR? If ur eqauting in terms of popularity and reaching to masses, may be I can understand. But if ur equating musically, I shud say u failed to understand ARRs music.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 35.11.98.63) on: Fri Jul 18 12:48:18 EDT 2003
  
  NSync and whole other popular people. It was just an analogy. In the west the sound technology is not as important as the vocals and lyrics, so there no such thing as a revolutionary music. I will have to refer to Yanni, Enigma, Enya if I talk about revolutionary sound.
  
  Anyway I have been asking this to all ARR fans, what is it that makes you like ARR's music? What should I understand about it?
  
  Jag
  
  ps: "To Jag" sounds like you are replying only to me. Surprising that u missed out on everything else and making comments on how I failed to understand ARR's music. I should probably say that every ARR fan's taste who says ARR's music is the greatest.
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Fri Jul 18 12:50:30 EDT 2003
  
  Jag
  I did listen to Manasellam, Julie Ganapathy, but did not find it the same gr8ness, So was waiting to hear more
  
  I will surely listen to the Telugu albums you mentioned (though i dont understand the lyrics).. Music has no language barriers anyways.
  
  Thanks once again
  
  

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