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Ethu Kavidhai ?

Topic started by OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on Tue May 6 01:24:00 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

In SOTD thread I suggested this to Udhya,for a discussion on Kavidhai.

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Responses:

• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Tue May 6 01:28:25 EDT 2003
  
  Around 1982 like all 16 year olds I too attempted to write poetry,but with a difference;I decided to write Marabuk Kavi instead of PudhuKavidhai which was at its peak then.I wrote something like the following and showed it to my Tamil Teacher,who said ,Vazhi Yengum ThLai thattugirathu,Aanal Nalla Muyarchi,karuthil KoLLunga Thambi! Tamizh soru podathu, Ezhmaikku Kavignan than KAdhalan!
  
  I attempt to reproduce the part which is relevant for the discussion "Ethu Kavidhai".
  
  "uLLunarnthon Iyalbu Miga Kadhal Solleduthu vaLar Ilakkanam ser KatRar Arivu Mayakki nenjathadayaum Kavi"
  
  I chose Self realisation ( say inner voice) ,Spontanity as the key elements.I used "VaLar Ilakkanam"because IMHO Ilakkanam is dynamic .Kadhal Solleduthu - to chose the appropriate word with passion.Arivu Mayakki Nenjathadyaum- the choice of heart over head .
  
  Moving further I would add two more points wrt Cinema songs
  
  1. Never search for a Full Kavidhai in a Film song because the Thiraipada Padal Kavignargal (TPK) have to breach the basic "uLLunarthal"and "Iyalbumiga".
  2.TharkuRipetralum,Uvamayum mattum Kavidhai Aagathu. (mattum! Note!) For eg "Thnagathil Mugamedhuthu "( Meenava NaNban) or "Thadagathil meen rendru Kamathil Thadumari.....Padaithitta bagam than un Kangalo"(Mythili Ennai Kathali).these have been brilliantly handled by Thiruvallvar,Kambar, Alwars ,Nayanmars , Ilango & Bharathy and they have left few avenues for the poets of later generations.
  
  To quote a few
  "Thavamarith allavai seithal Vedan 'Puthan Marinthu PuL simizhthatru" such an elegant Uvamai in simple words -Eduthukaatu Uvamai Ani
  "Poruzhanthedutha Aaryel Nedungodi vAaral enbana poL marithu Kai kaata"( I am repeating, this ,being my favourite Tharkuripetrani)
  
  .3.Ethugayum Monayum "GENERALLY "deterrents to Spontanity in TPK (Amutham endra sollai Aaraichi Seivatharuku Avaniyil AvaLe Aatharam) and often ends up with superfluous words.
  
  Cinema padalgaLil Kavidhai seyya mudiyatha? KKD has answerd this question with thunderbolt answers.
  
  Lets look at some of them:
  
  1.Malligai Mullai poopanthal
  Maragatha Manikka poonunjal
  ManjaL Vazhai Mamarangal
  Pachai Mavilai thoranangaL
  
  That s a great Katchi Varunanai ....You can feel the same zooming camera effect when Kambar picturises "Punaithilan Mouli Kunji Anjana punitha neeral" The TPK enters "Ellam etharkaga Namakku"
  
  2.Inbam enbathu iruvarin Urimai
  Yaar ketalum iLamiakku perumai
  
  True,some ethugai monai interruptions are there but note the remarkable subtlety
  
  3.aayiram Vasal idhyam ......for me no need for a "Athil aayiram ennngal Uthayam" which is a TPK stuff
  4.Gangai Karai Thottam Kanni Pengal kootam Kannan naduvinele
  5.Mounathil Malarcholai,NManjathil kuLir Katru (Avan than Manithan)
  6.The height of spontanity in "Kamban Emanthan"
  7.Umai endral Oru vagai Amaithi .......
  8.Ooryiram AandugaL aagatume Nam porumayin poruL mattum vilangattume
  9.Aasaiyilla manithar thammai thunbam enge nerungum - Mahayana,Heenayana,Vipasana rolled into 6 words
  
  Seri KKD thavira ??????
  
  1.Ini Unarvil pongum Alayosai ketpathu enge ( Partichaikku Neramachu -Vali)
  2.Velli Nilave Vilakai eriyum kadal than engaL veedu(Padakoti -Vali)
  3.Mottukkal mella thirakkum pothu Muthu Muthu engirathey- Haven t heard of a more softer Hero!
  4.Kadal Vasal TheLikum veede,Panai mara kade - does it not bring the Vavuniya,Valvettithurai feeling?
  5.(Kanner) Thottil Nanaikum varai un thookam kalaikum varai
  6.Kuzhanthai sirikattume Thayin Kathakathapil -
  7.Surprises from Pzhani Bharathi ... "Thennai Marathin Valivugal"- a nice Tharkuripetrani in DUM3 & "Konajam Poru Kolusoli Ketkirathey"is a Haiku in itself.
  
  MORE TO COME .............
  
  Why I expressed reservations on T Rajendar s "Kavithiagal" - Watch this
  
  KKD wrote the following lines for Avargal in 1976 ..
  
  bb,
  shall we call it REVERSE ALGORITHM
  
  "chithirai matham mazhayai thedi vadugiral
  Margazhi matham veyilai thedi odugiraL"
  
  a rip of from these lines T R went on improvising Reverse algorithm till Oru thalai Ragam finished 100 days.
  
  A Last line for this first write up ..............I need to bring in Sujatha s words
  
  "Budhisalithanamana varigaLai Kavidhai endru nambividatheergal" For this i have an example
  
  Pasi vara ange mathiraigal Pattiniyal engu yaathiraiGal - Budhisalithanamana monai ,Varthai Vilayattu aana Kavidhai enge? BUT KKD always had the last laugh
  
  "Ezhmai ulagil theerntha pinne marupadi oru Naal Naan varuven" - uLLunarthon Kavi!
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 64.136.26.232) on: Tue May 6 20:20:07 EDT 2003
  
  OISG,
  Nice write up, but you still haven't shown that TR is not a poet. You've only shown your preference in lyrics and the importance you place on subtlety.
  
  ethugai moanai, alliteration are dime a dozen in a language as rich as Thamizh. That doesn't do it for me by itself either. I look for a fresh spin on a trite theme. A unique analogy. A play on words is never a crime. In fact it's a welcome sport in lyrics rather than the same old analogies of the woman as flower, deity, or angel and man as the bull, hunter, or savior.
  
  Of the last 7 examples you've shown, only #2 strikes me as poetry as it uses an analogy, "vellinilaavae vilakkaai eriyum kadalthaan engal veedu". The rest are not what I call poetry. They are good word strings.
  
  "Kuzhandhai sirikkattumae thayin kathakathappil" is just an emotional filler line for me. It doesn't elicit goosebumps or even an appreciative smile on my part.
  
  malligai mullai poopandhal is called a list poem in free verse poetry. I prefer, "mayakkam enadhu thaayagam, mounam enadhu thaimozhi, kalakkam enadhu kaaviyam, naan kanneer varaindha oviyam", there's personal narration with touching diction.
  
  Let's come to lines I enjoyed by T.Rajendar:
  -mai thadavum vizhiyoaram
  mohanamaai thinam vaazhum
  mayakkam tharum mannavanin thiru uruvam (a simple succession of m, t and v words that don't even call attention to themselves in their construction)
  
  -maegamdhaan adhil mazhayae illai
  raagamdhaan adhil isayae illai
  paaimaram ondru naan virithaenammaa
  puyalvarakandu adhil thavithaenammaa
  thisaimaaravae thadumaarinaen
  alai adhil ezhudhidum kavidhai enbaen (simple lyrics that sum of the hopelessness and extreme grief of unrequited love)
  
  -kaadhalil vaazhndha kanni manam
  kaavalil vaadayil kanni vidum (word play, yes, may not be tasteful in marabuk kavidhai standards, but tasty enough for me to enjoy over licking the lover's bath water or pumping oxygen in moon)
  
  -thendraladhan vilaasathai
  than thoatramadhil petru vandhaval
  minnaladhan urpathiyai
  andha vaanathukkae kattru thandhaval
  amudham endra sollai aaraichi seivadharkku
  avaniyil avalae aadhaaram
  paandiyap paerarasu paarthu viyandhadhoru
  muththu charangal idhazhoaram (you have analogy build up, alliteration, rhyme and all this in part of a charanam; compare this to Vaali's kaanal neer/thaagam usage in at least 4 or 5 songs that I can recall, sometimes from the same year)
  
  -aval muga vadivai avan paarthapinnae andha pournamiyai ivan rasippathillai (simple but fabulous cause and effect analogy; not often found in TPK)
  
  -sengarumbuch chaarum sevvidhalzhil thaanae inipenum suvayaik katruk kondathu;
  paavai idhazhidathilae maadhulangani
  muththaich chivappaakkavae
  maa dhavam seidhadhu
  adhan varam peravae senniramaanadhu (separate analogies for the substance and color of lips; compare this to "guinness muththam tharuvaayaa" we should be so lucky to have T.R. around now)
  
  And for Sujatha's quote, I can easily apply that to his stories. At least he accepts buththisaalithanam in poetry. Some of his stories don't even have that.
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Wed May 7 04:38:53 EDT 2003
  
  Udhaya
  
  Good start.But T Rs KAvidhai seem to stop with "Nayagi VarnaNai".Anything on other subjects?
  
  (Guiness mutham ...Sathiyama Kandravi!who is the lyricist?)
  
  Some more thoughts "Ethu KAvidhai"
  
  Kavidhai enbathu Verum Thirapada peyaril/Kadhai peyaril kuda irukkalam.So the number of words is again not a contraint for Kavidhai.
  
  KallukuL eeram (Ra.Su.Nallaperumal)
  MuLLum malarum ( Uma Chandran)
  Avalukkendru oor manam (Sridhar)
  Sila nerangalil Sila Manithargal (JK)
  
  I find the KAvidhai even in some Hindi film titles
  1.Yaadon Ki Baaraath (Gnabagangalin Oorvalam)
  2.Ek din Achanak ( Oru Naal Dhideerena)
  
  
  KKD for this post
  
  Vanamenum veethyile kuLir vadyenum therinile
  Odi varum megangale......
  
  Others
  
  Kavidhai Arangerum Neram -Malar
  Kaniagal Parimarum dhegam
  
  Why Kuruvikarabai Shanmugham disappeared ?This line uses simple Tamizh words,with santham and Ilaimarai kai marai at its best.
  
  KKD too had similar lines but I have reservations
  
  Marbile Kungumam
  Karanam Sangamam
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 64.136.26.232) on: Wed May 7 05:25:59 EDT 2003
  
  OISG,
  I see where you're coming from. I absolutely adore Kuruvikarambai Shanmugam, have most of his songs. Did you know he taught Vairamuthu Thamizh in college? Anyway, based on the regressive trend he gave up on TFM is what I've learned.
  
  I have no trouble appreciating great Thamizh like that of Kuruvikarambai, Mu.Mehtha, Na. Kamarasan, Mayavanathan, Suratha, Alangudi Somu, Vaasan, Arivumathi, Pulamaipithan, Thamarai and a host of others from various time periods.
  
  You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you expect refined, well-rounded, all encompassing, vedic standards in TPK, that too from someone like T.R.
  
  I don't have that expectation. I know I can expect some signature varnanai and vaarthai jaalam from T.R. Even if it borders on self-pity or indulges in broken hearts, T.R.'s poetry is good at what it aims to be.
  
  I view language as an ocean with many rhythms holding the promise for many varieties of fish depending on who casts the line (okay, gloriously indulgent pun there, sorry). The more the merrier.
  
  I know that most poets will never coin in their entire careers a line as majestic as "malarndhum malaraatha paadhi malar poala valarndha vizhi vannamae". That's like 73 home runs in one season, 6 sixers in one over. I would love to see these often in my life, but I don't hold out hope for them.
  
  For me, a unique expression like, "paadhai maelae poothiruppaen, kayyil raegai poala searndhiruppaen" is enough to cherish a song. Even in a simplistic song like "Ennai kaanavillayae naetroadu" I enjoy the held back payoff in the phrase, "nijam undhan kaadhal endraal".
  
  "Sollathaan ninaikkiraen" starts out simple enough with serviceable lyrics until it bowls me over with, "kaathal enbadhu mazhayaanaal aval kangalthaanae kaarmaegam". Andha uvamaikkae ezhuthanukku kudutha kaasu sethuchu.
  
  "strawberry kannae" kaettu madras eye vandha avadhi, aanaa "poovae, vasandham vandha seidhiyai vandukku eppadi solvaayoa, vannathilaa vaasathilaa irandilumaa?" kaettu poovai uchi mugarndha aanandham varum.
  
  In lyrics, as in life, I celebrate the rare and suffer through the routine in search of the rare.
  
  
• From: Issa (@ 192.136.16.3) on: Wed May 7 08:55:29 EDT 2003
  
  Kavithai-nu ethum kidayathu..it depends how you look.
  
  "BOQUET-yil
  veeritu azhum kavithai
  pookari kizhaviyin
  thalarntha kaigalil
  urangi sariyum"
  
  ethi ennaala mudichathu...
  
  

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