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Advantages of composing prewritten lyrics

Topic started by Udhaya (@ 64.136.27.31) on Tue Aug 12 11:51:47 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

While listening to many old songs, the advantages of prewritten lyrics for composers and singers became evident. I will start with two examples and we can add more as we discover them.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Thu Aug 28 10:13:48 EDT 2003
  
  MS, Thanks for sharing your composing experience too. Every creative experience should have an
  'Aha!' moment, a doing of a new thing that you have not done before and a new insight or connection you have not seen before. DOnt miss the classic book Arthur Koestler's Act of Creation.
  
  Also, talking out and recollecting in words your
  experience, teaches your own self, what you learnt. THis is why I elaborate a lot on thought processes etc. The shortest way to genius is to
  exercise your goal-task in a free flow, in this case composing many tunes for a lyric, many many many times and sitting back and analysing it and verbalizing your lessons. Read the excellent 'Einstein factor' book.
  
  The actual tunes are not as important. The process is.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Thu Aug 28 11:10:47 EDT 2003
  
  Udhaya, thanks for listening and comments on the new versions.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Thu Aug 28 11:47:23 EDT 2003
  
  Sridhar, on your version, I liked it after a couple of listenings. Initially I couldnt get a hold of it since my ears were still tuned to the earlier light classical versions but after a couple of hearings I kind of got a grasp on it. This is a tune I feel that could be made into a stylish song once you decide to arrange it, IMO. I am reminded of "Vennila Vennila"(Iruvar) kind of jazzy songs. A different take on the lyrics and for that the effort needs to be appreciated. The recording was also clear and your voice was booming through my speakers (There was some kind of a reverberance to it, how did you record it?)
  
  I am tempted to listen to you sing "sambo, siva sambo" from Ninaithaale Inikkum :-)
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on: Thu Aug 28 11:47:54 EDT 2003
  
  "The actual tunes are not as important. The process is."
  
  Very true. To me it is being with music or discussing with people like you which seems to be giving more pleasure than the music itslef. Or to put it in a slightly different fashion,learning is pleasure for me. As long as I learn, I seem to be happy.
  
  Composing is a learning experience in itself. It teaches me my shortcomings, my strengths and also conveys the greatness of the masters and the process of making music. Discussion in forum with respectable fellow DFers is another way I learn and every new stuff that I learn titillates me. Every time I step into a pleasant but new arena, my mind becomes active and responsive. The fun is more in the learning process than anything else IMO.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Thu Aug 28 11:49:38 EDT 2003
  
  Is it time to move on to another exercise?
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Thu Aug 28 11:50:03 EDT 2003
  
  Is it time to move on to another exercise? Or does anyone want to add to this Padhi Raavil
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on: Thu Aug 28 11:54:36 EDT 2003
  
  The next excercise is something that I have loved to do along with Udhaya. It is in a way similar to the previous one. It is to take a popular film song and tune it completely differently. This way we can test:
  
  (1) Our ability to break the shackles of established sandham and tune
  (2) Our interpretation of the preset lyrics
  (3) A comparison of how we fare with the established tune.
  
  What sayeth thou ? :-)
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Thu Aug 28 11:57:46 EDT 2003
  
  >> Sridhar, on your version, I liked it after a couple of listenings.
  
  As I realized to Sridhar's version, I realized that when we tune, we hear a whole orchestra playing in the mind along with it, so the tune is fuller than what the melody line says. For instance many of Raja's tunes will sound flat and
  abrupt (mottai) without the fills and harmony changes... So we run a risk of singing our tunes without accompaniment and presenting them. THis is why MSV/Raja sat with a harmonium and a tabla/dholak and why ARR probably sits with a Keyboard or records a demo with a prelim arrangment
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Thu Aug 28 12:01:29 EDT 2003
  
  MS, that is a good exercise, even though that seems same as the last one, except for the use of an established song ;)
  
  Other options could be arranging the same tune totally different ways to see how it creates different emotions. Probably that should be a different thread... "TFM Arrangement styles..."
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 68.16.25.50) on: Thu Aug 28 12:12:05 EDT 2003
  
  rjay, true. Thats why Sridhar's song is more of a listener's song(pardon me for using this term often) which would be "fuller" with the arrangement. And I could realize it as I was listening to the tune, the strong IR influence he has :-) My instant comment to MS was "its like listening to a song like En iniya pon Nilave with just the vocals!" As for MSV, i dont think the man needed even a harmonium. I read your writeup for that SOTD song where you said he sang out the entire arrangement!
  
  I request you and Sridhar to write probably in some other thread about your background/training in arrangement and how you go about doing it. Probably like composing secrets-2, I believe it would be very interesting and informative.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Thu Aug 28 12:41:12 EDT 2003
  
  The person to fit to write about and illustrate arrangement is Srikanth with confidence, but we will share the best of what we have learnt, too!
  
  
• From: sriram (@ 163.181.251.10) on: Thu Aug 28 13:38:19 EDT 2003
  
  wonderful thread. now that round 1 is complete, I would like to suggest an opposite exercise - writing different lyrics for the same tune. then we can compare notes with lyricists & composers and learn about each style of creating a song.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 64.136.26.31) on: Thu Aug 28 14:01:03 EDT 2003
  
  Sriram,
  We kind of did the different lyrics same tune deal in the "Amateur musicians" thread about a month or so before. It was Aditya's tune for which aruLarasan and I wrote different lyrics. Of course we can still do this if others are interested. We can purposely try different moods. We need some more lyric writers to get enough variety.
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Thu Aug 28 14:56:07 EDT 2003
  
  MS, rjay and Sridhar
  Nice efforts. I was surprised reading how fast you guys came up with these tunes. Truly gifted, you guys are. And of course, Udhaya needs to be lauded for providing the platform for all these lovely experiments.
  
  Actually, I was trying to compose myself (first time!!) and did come up with a tune for Udhaya's lyric. But I don't know how to present it over here, i.e., I don't how to record it and save it as a file for someone else to access the song and listen to it. I wonder if anyone here has a simple (read: inexpensive) solution to this problem. All I have with me is my laptop computer. Sridhar mentioned a PC recording with a PC mic, what exactly is that? I hope I am not bothering you guys here.
  
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 192.147.58.6) on: Thu Aug 28 15:31:12 EDT 2003
  
  Vijay!
  
  You want me to try "Sambo"? Ha! Ha! Nammala singer aakidaadeengapaa.
  
  Kaumudi!
  
  I used SoundForge software to capture the song. If your laptop is new, it should have some kind of wave recording software.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: sriram (@ 163.181.251.10) on: Thu Aug 28 15:36:20 EDT 2003
  
  "We need some more lyric writers to get enough variety."
  
  yeah. this forum lacks in people with enough initiative to write poetry, compared to the number of music composers. I know you have almost been the lone crusader pushing for lyrical excellence on par with musical excellence. do we have any other volunteers? Pardon me for suggesting the idea and not putting my name first. I have never had the initiative to contribute in either department.
  kElvigalai naanE kEtkirEn, enakku kEtka mattum dhAn theriyum :-) (thiruvilayAdal)
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.122) on: Thu Aug 28 15:48:25 EDT 2003
  
  Kaumudi wrote:
  Nice efforts. I was surprised reading how fast you guys came up with these tunes. Truly gifted, you guys are.
  
  Sriram wrote:
  I have never had the initiative to contribute in either department.
  
  
  Writing lyrics and making tunes are not really difficult tasks. We have kept it so high on a pedestal making bar of entry high! (Too many metaphors?)
  
  Just make up your mind to do it and stick to it, quality will improve. I urge composers here to start writing lyrics and lyricists here to sing their tunes. Because a song is just an expression of an heartfelt emotion in tune and your own words. If you keep away from trying to be 'POETIC' and 'MUSICAL', your song will be simple and from the heart and to the heart.
  
  I want Kaumudi and Sriram to start contributing too...
  
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.122) on: Thu Aug 28 15:51:03 EDT 2003
  
  Kaumudi
  If you are using Windows, go to start-> Programs-> accessories -> entertainment -> sound recorder and you can record your voice.
  
  Other option is call one of us and sing it out.
  
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 192.147.58.6) on: Thu Aug 28 17:43:59 EDT 2003
  
  I am surprised that we have made into the list of "Truly gifted".
  
  It is just a conscious effort to become a composer that has driven us to this point. Nothing more.
  
  The idea of expressing ourselves here is to encourage other people to try. No means to be isolated as "gifted".
  
  Daily moolaiyila utkaarndhu kathungappaa. Paautu thaanaa varum.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Kaumudi (@ 136.142.153.250) on: Thu Aug 28 18:24:23 EDT 2003
  
  rjay
  Thanks for the suggestion and the encouragement. I guess I need a microphone first:-) before I can record anything.
  
  Sridhar
  "...that we have made into the list of "Truly gifted"..." - that phrase was another way of expressing my appreciation for you guys, that's all, no idea of isolating at all.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 67.73.193.206) on: Fri Aug 29 01:06:55 EDT 2003
  
  Sridhar,
  
  > Daily moolaila ukkandhu kattungappa.
  
  That is the first step. Second step is to record it and listen to later in the day once and picking what works!
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 67.73.193.206) on: Fri Aug 29 01:11:37 EDT 2003
  
  http://www.geocities.com/rjaymidi/RJAY-PadhiRaavil7.mp3
  
  
• From: Aditya (@ 68.62.91.125) on: Fri Aug 29 08:52:52 EDT 2003
  
  Hello Udhaya, RJAY, MS, Sridhar, SriRam and Kaumudi:
  
  I don't know if I am qualified to make music for these lyrics...But I wanted to just give a try:-)) I first listened to Sridhar's, RJAY's and MS's version thoroughly...the idea was to actually understand the mood of the lyrics and various interpretations...then i observed where you guys are actually breaking the words and pauses...
  
  I appreciate your work...very nice and enthusiastic group...I couldn't resist to participate here...
  
  I just sang the first line for reference of tune...
  
  http://home.comcast.net/~Vijayaditya/PaadhiRaavil-Vocal-Line1.mp3
  
  Then here's the first cut of instrumental version of the tune for pallavi and first bgm perhaps...Although we can always improve further, this is how i interpreted...
  
  http://home.comcast.net/~Vijayaditya/PaadhiRaavil-Instrumental.mp3
  
  I was actually planning to play it on veena as a lead instrument in the instrumental version.
  
  Hope you guys like it...
  
  Thanks for listening.
  
  Regards,
  Aditya
  
  

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