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Chords Section in newtfmpage/Dhool

Topic started by MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on Thu Apr 17 01:02:28 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

In an effort to make dhool a li'l more comprehensive, we are adding a section "chords" for some songs. This table is presently hidden since we have chords only for a few songs. DFers can mail their own set of chords for the songs they have played / written in the format suggested in the Chords conventions page. Take a look at the way the page is arranged and send your chords to andholanam@hotmail.com. Try to make it as complete and accurate as possible including the interludes. This will help others who are searching for chords to use them. Appropriate credits shall be given to those who send the files.

(1) Paatu paadava
(2) Janani Janani
(3) Kuzaloodhum kaNNanukku
(4) nila adhu
(5) ponnondru kaNden
(6) vaseegara
and other chord files are available here - http://dhool.com/chords/articles.htm

some conventions:

http://dhool.com/chords/chords_conventions.htm

BTW, all these files were created by me and pardon the errors if any.

MS

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 192.147.58.6) on: Tue May 13 15:47:57 EDT 2003
  
  Rjay,
  
  I am glad that you picked up this particular song. It sounds good from analysis point of view. But most people think that music or for that matter any creativity has to be spontaneous. Here you have talked about JUMP, NEIGHBOURING TONE, etc. I can understand that creating skeletal melody really helps. I have tried that and it works. How do you go about practicing embellishments and other techiniques when you are composing.
  
  Do you mean to say composing is a conscious process?
  
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.122) on: Tue May 13 16:12:39 EDT 2003
  
  Everything has to be first learnt consciously, bit by bit and practiced before it can become spontaneous and part of a larger skill set!
  
  Like driving a car, see how many things we manage
  simultaneously - steering the wheel, watching the mirrors, holding and releasing the brakes and accelerator etc. When we learn we awkwardly learn one thing at a time and often think can we ever do it!! But then through practice, our brain figures out that whatever you can do consciously well, it allocates automatic circuitry and takes it away from surface consciousness. There is a beautiful economy of attention.
  
  Same way, I think composers like Ilaiyaraja, first
  learn to make melodies, then go on to learn chord progressions with a guitar/harmonium and then go on to full orchestration and produciton etc.
  I sometimes think probably Ilaiyaraja being born in a village far away from piano classes, helped him to first learn melody making well instead of getting distracted!
  
  Conscious practice of one skill at a time and then
  seamlessly the brain calls these faculties when and how they are needed!
  
  Fortunately, for driving classes, we have cars equipped where the coaches can shut down all but one control at a time! We have to simulate similar
  exercises for composition.
  
  Here are some of the things I have tried and
  found very helpful.
  
  Take a single sentence - say meham karukkuthu and
  try to build a whole song (pallavi, anupallavi, charanam) with the same chandam. And also apply more rules, for instance, try to use only the range Sa to Ga for pallavi, Introduce Ma in anupallavi and reserve Pa - Sa for charanam. THis limitation actually creates a nice form-al clarity.
  
  Regarding practicing embellishments on a skeleton, the sarali varisai is a good example of it!
  
  For instance, the ga ma ga skeleton above can be
  embellished with only jumps, and that creates
  a new melody.
  
  
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Tue May 13 19:23:19 EDT 2003
  
  Wow RJay, that was interesting write up! I can relate to the process you have outlined in melody making. As you point out, there is simplicity in music making as with any art form. The skeletal melody kind of shows how the entire composition is built around a very simple set of notes - and how we embellish this skeleton and form a cohesive whole. That is remarkable isn't it?
  I also agree with Sridhar's view that this should be spontaneous. I guess for a talented few this comes naturally. For others this skill needs to be learnt :( - but learning is always fun! RJay has gone the first step in unravelling the intricacies of melody. Good job!
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Tue May 13 20:25:48 EDT 2003
  
  Hi Rjay, you've been unsighted here for a while..based on your writings, looks like you have been to the himalayas or someplace and come back wiser :)
  Re: conscious practice later producing spontaneous creativity - Maybe this is what they mean when they say, "Genius is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration"
  
  
• From: prabhakar (@ 198.81.26.43) on: Tue May 13 23:04:09 EDT 2003
  
  Hi Guys,
  I have been playing the keyboard for quite some time and now I can play any song by listening.I can play a few chords fairly well but I want to know if there is a standard chord triplets ( eg. F,C,B chords for a f-major scale) or if there is a way to figure out the main chord progressions based on the lead scale of songs.
  I have tried to figure out mathematically( for eg.for a f-major, I start with the root note of a scale say. F and add 3 to it to get B and add 1 to B to get C).I know this works for few other scales also.
  Can you guys enlighten me on this.
  
  thanks,
  Prabhakar
  
  
• From: Sridhar Seetharaman (@ 192.147.58.6) on: Wed May 14 08:50:58 EDT 2003
  
  Prabakar,
  
  F major scale does not have a B. It has a Bb. So I am little confused on how your approaching the chord progression. I am glad that you are experimenting. That is the best way to learn.
  
  For initial fun,
  
  Try simple 1st 4th 5th chord progressions on a given scale.
  
  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
  F G A Bb C D E F
  
  1st Chord - F A C
  4th - Bb D F
  5th - C E G
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Wed May 14 10:46:27 EDT 2003
  
  Thank you UV, Swamiji and Kiru. It is always a pleasure to write to elite listeners (ice, ice)
  and as we write, we gain new insights our own subconscious and others collective knowledge!!!
  
  Swamiji, I think two concepts are key to composition, one is skeletal melody and second is motivic variation. I will take that up next.
  
  Kiru, I really went to a learning curve (or a roller coaster) and have around 20 pocket books full of notes, jotted down in a frenzy!!
  
  But instead of swarming the pages with halfbacked articles, I will try to take one at a time and have good examples, maybe with interactive exercises where all of us can add to the understanding and then move on.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Wed May 14 11:51:44 EDT 2003
  
  Swamiji,
  
  'for a talented few, it comes naturally.'
  
  I disagree. Nothing comes naturally.
  
  The 'talented few' actually start the conscious practice and random experimentation very very early in life, because they were sorrounded by right people and environment,
  when mind is more confident and less inhibited and less afraid of failure, before their emotionally blackmailed conscious mind kicks in to terrorize the creative mind!
  
  Before they are aware, the practice has become smooth and they forget having practiced at all! As a result, most of the geniuses are awed by the creativity of their own subconscious, that they forget the conscious processes which triggered their internal engine to go on cranking out ideas! And they tend to believe that a super power is givig them the inspiration!!
  
  That is why even though Ilaiyaraja says it comes like breath and no thought involved and so on, I am sure he would have had his stumbling blocks when he was, say, 10 years old! Or he would have seen his brother or mother improvise tunes and lyrics on the fly effortlessly and he realized that it was an easy thing to do!
  
  But, I read somewhere that he tried 40 tunes for Andhi mazhai pozhigiradhu and then went back to the first tune! So at least, there was lot of conscious processing involved circa 1978!
  
  Why I am elobarating this so much in this may be unrelated thread is that it is a myth that some people are better equipped. Everyone has the equipment and just that you have to let go and do it and trust your flow! As you produce more and more the process automatically gets better and better!
  
  And another myth is that great composers create only excellent compositions. No, only 1 out of 10 tunes may be good initially, but as you keep doing it day in and day out and listen to it, the brain teaches itself through feedback how to make more of what you like.
  
  And another myth is that songs are born well-made at one go. No, musicians like artists, start with a seed and keep refining it and adding to it. As you get more and more experienced, you may gain more control over the process and less errors and trials, but music making is a process and not a product!
  
  So the theme of the day is, trust yourself and let go. As you produce more and more the process automatically gets better and better!
  
  
  
• From: observer (@ 216.210.128.249) on: Wed May 14 12:03:52 EDT 2003
  
  That was a wonderful, positive++ "theme of the day". Thanks RJay. You are one of the 'talented few' when it comes to motivating others.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 156.77.105.123) on: Wed May 14 12:37:51 EDT 2003
  
  Thanks Observer. newtfmpage has done a lot towards encouraging amateurs like us and I have not heard of a similar resource anywhere else!!
  
  
• From: prabhakar (@ 198.81.26.43) on: Wed May 14 13:19:32 EDT 2003
  
  Sridhar,
  Thanks a lot for your invaluable advice.I actually meant Bb.I played "nilave va " from mouna ragam in f-major scale with the chords and it is just beautiful.do you know of any material which talks about these chord progressions in detail.
  
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.241) on: Wed May 14 14:13:12 EDT 2003
  
  Lot of activity ! RJAY - very nice to see you here along with others. Keep up the good work. I am enjoying thoroughly.
  
  
• From: ki ru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed May 14 14:14:27 EDT 2003
  
  observer said it right..rjay you sound like a motivational speaker..And I also think there is a lot of truth in your theory. This debate happens all the time in behavioral sciences - nature vs nurture. Even though I also believe everthing is learned, I read somewhere, the 'predilection' or in simple terms 'interest' towards a particular thing might be 'genetic/inherited/physiological'. Still, when it comes to music it is better to start early (like language learning). But too much formal training, which emphasizes on 'reproduction' of some material might kill creativity. These people might become good musicians..but might lose out on the ability to compose, I think.
  
  "very early in life ...when mind is more confident and less inhibited and less afraid of failure" ...this is very true and should not be underestimated. I have seen this in my toddler.
  
  I guess 'motivic' comes from 'motif', right ? I understand now. Keep writing. Even though, I have no intentions of composing, I am pretty sure the topic here will make me a good listener or atleast I'll be able to play 'Ol king cole' for my son :)
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.4.168) on: Wed May 14 14:17:01 EDT 2003
  
  Dear Rjay wonderful article romba deepa poytenga.
  Here is my own experinece and take.
  ofcourse i am only a beginner not an expert so please ignore my mistakes any abathams ;)
  When my sister started learning veena we bought a new one. Everyone had a go at it not that they are expert or something but just plucked the strings and moved fingers over the fret.when I tried the same unfortunately nothing came in the sense there was no coordination between the hands that embrassed me and also motivated me. And after that I put lots of hours in practise,eventhough I didnt have any prior training in veena but was able to play swarams and later cine songs and any song on the spot. Ofcourse later I joined proper veena class
  but main factors are hours of listening and practising.
  so 99%perspiration and 1%inspiration is true.
  
  regarding spontanity this is my take
  for example I am weak in swarapadthifying the songs ie. i cant say swaram for anjali song is 'gaga..mama' on listening
  but has no problems in hitting the right chords or playing notes on a single listen. I think this is because of how mind processes ones thoughts,ideas and then structuring it.I may have lots of ideas but should have ability to express those ideas in a proper structured manner. This again doesnt come naturally but after repeated attempts I guess :)
  taking ur Raja example however fast his thoughts,ideas there is no way he can bring everything on to the paper some ideas are indeed lost by time u start writing ur score.
  
  Looking forward to your live samples :)
  keep it going
  
  

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