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Why was 78-82 songs of IR considered his best?

Topic started by Prabhu (@ 203.90.94.162) on Fri Oct 4 08:37:47 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

A curious question. It is commonly perceived that THE BEST of IR's hit songs came in the 78-82 period. Why is it so?
It does appear that IR songs of this period had lengthy pallavis with heavy orchestration(consider 'Ore naal unai naan, Kanmaniye kaathal enbathu, Poonthaliraada, songs from Alaigal oivathillai, Nizhalgal,etc). The post-85 songs had pallavis that were more or less toned down and gradually culminated with greater emphasis on melody in the charanams.
Your comments?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.124.139.195) on: Wed Oct 9 07:14:48 EDT 2002
  
  A journey by Indian Railways resulted in my prolonged absence from this thread!
  
  Back to the topic..
  >>Punnagai Mannan, Mouna Raagam, Idhayathai Thirudathe, Moha Mull, Sindhu Bhairavi, Muthal Mariyathai,Salangai Oli, Sippikkul Muthu and scores of other movies came after 1982.. So his best period is 1976-1994.>But are you guys sure the date is 1982 ? Seems like there were quite a number of good film songs from IR after that >IR came in 1976 right? so, why 1978? he had superb hits in 76 and 77 itself.>the great IR-Manirathnam combo hadnt even begun by 1982!! This is like forgetting the MSV-Bhim Singh combo<<
  vijay:
  As I said, IR innovated for big directors...Dhalapathi was vintage IR, but as Cosmician said, IR didnt use it as a trendsetter. (Perhaps this is why people's tastes changed..For despite scoring for 54 movies in 1992, the album that ushered in a new era was *you-know-what* :-))
  
  Hope I am not stirring a hornet's nest :) My purpose is just to discuss transitions in his style over 2-3 decades.
  
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.124.139.195) on: Wed Oct 9 07:17:58 EDT 2002
  
  Confusion happened..posting separately..
  
  >>Punnagai Mannan, Mouna Raagam, Idhayathai Thirudathe, Moha Mull, Sindhu Bhairavi, Muthal Mariyathai,Salangai Oli, Sippikkul Muthu and scores of other movies came after 1982.. So his best period is 1976-1994.<<
  Awe:
  I mentioned the period 78-82 just to discuss his style of composition and not whether the albums were good or bad(?). Most IR fans and not just me consider his 78-82 songs to be top of the heap.
  The movies you have mentioned are directed by MR/KB/BR, for whom IR reserved his best. Irrespective of the era, IR gave innovative songs for this trio..or for Rajini. I mentioned Poomalaiye, Oho Megam, Raakamma as exceptions, and they all happen to be from MR movies.
  Listen to the interludes in 'Sundari Kanaal oru sethi'...such innovation wasnt followed in movies for small directors.
  The music for Alaigal Oivathillai, a story set in the countryside, is much different from what IR gave for gramathu stories in the 90s..he toned down his style and focussed on soft melodies.
  Post 85, IR reserved his best for the big matches!
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.124.139.195) on: Wed Oct 9 07:19:12 EDT 2002
  
  
  >>But are you guys sure the date is 1982 ? Seems like there were quite a number of good film songs from IR after that <<
  Kiru:
  I set 1982 as the 'upper limit' since that year produced a flood of brilliant compositions, unmatched in versatility...Payanangal Mudivathillai,Kadhaal Oviyam, Kozhi Koovuthu, Salangai Oli, Sakalakalavallavan,Moondram Pirai,Thooral Ninnu Pochu, Ninaivellam Nitya,etc..surely the most glittering collection year-wise!
  
  
  
  "IR came in 1976 right? so, why 1978? he had superb hits in 76 and 77 itself."
  archivist:
  that was for statistical consistency :) 1977 had 9 movies, '78-13, '79-25, '80-30, '81-32...so guess we can infer he carved his niche quantitatively and qualitatively from '78 onwards.
  
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Wed Oct 9 09:53:51 EDT 2002
  
  Prabhu
  
  Entha Stats oru inimayana vyathi.Cinema ,cricket,music,tennis ...subject ennavo veruthan anal vyathi ondre!Now you have extended territories???
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 163.181.250.2) on: Wed Oct 9 10:03:04 EDT 2002
  
  "Payanangal Mudivathillai,Kadhaal Oviyam, Kozhi Koovuthu, Salangai Oli, Sakalakalavallavan,Moondram Pirai,Thooral Ninnu Pochu, Ninaivellam Nitya"
  
  Wow! That must have been a bumper crop harvest in 1982. What a year!
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.34.7) on: Wed Oct 9 10:32:00 EDT 2002
  
  ...and all the albums came without the hype associated when ARR's recycled tunes come once in a blue moon.I really pity the current lot who wallow in ignorance about the past and revel in the current day hype.If ARR gave as many movies in a year with good songs,many of them will simply collapse in ecstasy.
  so,they seek solace with statements like-
  bgm is not important
  recording was not upto mark
  doing 5 movies a year is better than doing 50 movies a year...
  
  
• From: s0 (@ 163.181.250.2) on: Wed Oct 9 11:05:10 EDT 2002
  
  yaaro: idhu thevaiya?
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.56.244) on: Wed Oct 9 11:24:28 EDT 2002
  
  yaaro... i think mistake is also on the side of IR fans. We should never ever have compared IR with ARR. IR belongs to a different class. ARR, KR, YSR, HJR... these belong to one category, MSV, KVM .. these belong to one category, Chandrabose, Deva, S.A.Rajkumar these belong to one category, Bharadwaj, Manisharma.. belong to one category. IR stands alone for arranging several meetings between Western Classic and South Indian Classical music through his songs. Infact even some folk songs had western tunes.
  
  
• From: Aalavandhan (@ 210.186.51.17) on: Wed Oct 9 11:28:38 EDT 2002
  
  Yaaro, I am so disappointed with you.
  If you, a veteran behave like this, how can we fault newcomers?
  
  And talking about hype, let me "remind" you:
  
  Payanangal Mudivathillai (Mohan & R Sunderarajan)
  Kadhaal Oviyam (Bharathiraja)
  Kozhi Koovuthu (Gangai Amaran directs for 1st time)
  Salangai Oli, Sakalakalavallavan,Moondram Pirai (Kamal)
  Thooral Ninnu Pochu (not great songs but nevertheless Pakiaraj)
  Ninaivellam Nitya (Sridhar and GeeGee)
  
  Need bigger hypes than these?
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Oct 9 12:35:26 EDT 2002
  
  Prabhu..you are cool..Let me add my bit.
  It is quite possible there might have been sharp transitions in IRs style, because of very many factors. Actually Udhaya, once even mentioned him getting spritual or visiting the mookambigai temple the first time ushered in a change in him, that showed up in his music as well.
  I am probably looking at things more superficially. But I do see less and less rhythm/beatsy/fast tempo songs from IR from his earlier years. (I now am listening to records and get to hear songs like 'padippila zero, nadippila hero, rOattula romeo'). He also less importance to creating new arrangements (vis-a-vis Udhaya mentioning tabla) and concentrated on interludes leading him into the WCM territory. Eventually, Once the initial rock inspired rhythms, disco wave ebbed ..IR had gone deep into WCM. He probably felt bored by songs and found it less and less challenging, I guess. BGM offered a bigger canvas than songs. Meanwhile having him exhausted all drums/combination of drums and guitar arrangments, there was a void in the popular music market for a 'newer' sound. This set the stage for ARR to enter with synth sounds and drum machines. All IMHO.
  Personally, when it comes to tamil music, IR is primary source and I consider his fantastic career as an example that I would love to emulate in my own field.
  BTW, I think IR is onto creating a new style of WCM inspired songs which were not there in his earlier days. This trend started with Guru and continues in niRam piriththu in Time and even one song in the latest en mana vaanil. If he continues to hold onto his commerical strength (albeit lesser than his heydays) we can get to see him play his second innings.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Oct 9 12:45:16 EDT 2002
  
  One more bit about thaLapathi - IR gets excited about orchestral scores. Mani Ratnam had a big budget for this movie's music (40lakhs) and IR went crazy over it. But I also heard that Mani was pushing IR to do a more louder/percussion heavy mix.
  Looks like it costs more to have a big orchestral recordings. MohanLal it seems told IR you can spend as much as you want for Guru. So musicians were brought in from Hungary. Kamal (who is not so original IMO :)) went one step further and took IR to Hungary itself.
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.4.168) on: Wed Oct 9 13:30:01 EDT 2002
  
  Kiru
  Good to see your posting after long time.
  Welcome back and great posting.
  To me IR has expermimented with almost every aspect of music way back in 80s itself. Folk,Jazz/blues,wcm fusion every aspect of music was explored by him,but after 90s (this once again my personal opinion)he seems to be tired or atleast his music seems to lack the punches that was there in 80s,may be its my bad ears.
  There is even difference in recording quality. It was good in 80s(you should listen to the orginal lpm disc but in 90s and till now the quality output wasnt that exciting they seem to be build on a predictable standard formula (esp orchestrn,ranges),looks like he is not interested in film music at all ,may be he is really trying to reach another shore move on to a different level
  Now the problem music industry in general is facing is entire market is commercialized only money/market share determines the outcome thereby undermining the quality,this is and will be a major setback to any creative composer. This is my taking as an long time follower of music and also an amateur composer.
  I still listen to his old songs late 70/80s where I learn so many things regarding composing,chord structures other aspects of music.
  You cant find one discordant note in his music,for example in a song like kadal oviyum when the church/temple bell rings it will be on note,take 'chinan chiru vayathil' from meendum kokila even the vethalapodru soundkoota sruthodu thalakattodu irrukum.
  anyway thats my take
  
  
• From: Awe (@ 65.69.57.191) on: Wed Oct 9 13:55:26 EDT 2002
  
  I guess there is only so much a Music Director can diverse and experiment. Even the great composers like John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone have a standard way of composing. They don't deviate too much from the way they compose. But Illayaraja with his immense knowledge in classical music both western and eastern, he did the best that he could do. "Ra ra venugopala" is a carnatic tune. Illayaraja cleverly converted into a dappanguthu song as "Maaman Voodu Machi voodu".. Infact it is deliberate. This i knew only because my sister who is classicaly trained singer told me. It is his sheer combination of imagination, knowledge, innovation we were blessed with so many memorable tunes.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Oct 9 14:15:07 EDT 2002
  
  UV, around mid-90s there was a transition in arrangements/tunes (especially keyboards, shorter melodies etc) many of which did not go well with the audience. Only kAthalukku mariyAthai came out fine. But recently, IR has disposed of this style and uses only the electronic percussion. This is very effectively exploited in kochu kochu santhoshangal. He seems to use these beats nowadays in his BGM as well (eg. Lajja).
  Awe has a point, IR is very versatile. He has tuned in atleast 10-20 styles of songs (genre) in my personal estimation.
  And yes, I do listen to the original LPs. They are very good. I think the original vacuum tube or even discrete electronic recording devices were later replaced with IC based solid state stuff in the studio, I think. Also, the original master tape-to-CD conversion was done very badly. I say this because I have the LP and the CD version and the LP version sounds way better. I also feel LP is inherently a better format than CD !!!!
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.34.7) on: Wed Oct 9 17:58:47 EDT 2002
  
  aalavandhan,
  when I say hype,what I mean is,these songs when they came we had a open mind with no expectations-and they turned out to be good.it is impossible to hype when IR was doing about 40 movies ,atleast 60 pc of them with established names.If you had the internet in those days,the message board would have simply overflowed for IR's releases.EVERY week,there will be a new record cover staring at you in the record shop-atleast 2 very good songs even in an unknown director's film.
  The expectations for ARR films ,to put it mildly,is really out of hand-look at what happened to baba!
  and alavandhan a secret-psst-I liked KV very much.in fact,the one song all fans are disappointed-bailamore-I just cannot get it out of my head!
  
  

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