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Compare and Contrast IR's musical style(s), especially with the BGM tracks, with those of composers of Hollywood

Topic started by Music_lover (@ 202.141.98.226) on Wed Apr 28 08:58:08 EDT 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Compare and Contrast IR's musical style(s), especially with the BGM tracks, with those of composers of Hollywood, viz., Maurice Jarre, Henri Mancini, John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Bernstein, John Barry, Alan Sylvistri, Danny Elfman, Ennio Morricone, Howard Shore, Hans Zimmer, James Horner and so on

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Responses:

• From: sarath (@ 24.92.228.250) on: Wed Apr 28 09:13:34 EDT 2004
  
  Is this an english exam?
  
  
• From: Music_lover (@ 202.141.98.226) on: Wed Apr 28 09:41:34 EDT 2004
  
  I have a reasonable collection of soundtracks from Lawrence of Arabia, Dr.Zhivago, Psycho, 2001: Space Odyssey, Cape Fear, Portrait of a Serial Killer, The Omen, ET, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Sleepy Hollow, Batman, Spiderman, Schindlers List, some not-very-popular themes of Ennnio Morricone, Blade Runner, Beetlejuice and others - each time I listen to them, I feel sad that IR's music is not hear much in the West -
  
  let me first highlight my favorites among the above:
  
  Star Wars - takes the cake - what an outrageously grand score - those who have ever been to the Golden Gate GG in San Francisco - there is a hillock, from the top of which one can get a real, mind-boggling grand view of the red-colored wonder GG, the Alcatraz(?)in the distance - or if you gone to the top of Tiruchy Rock Fort temple, or the East Coast National Highway north of Vizag (Vishakapatnam)cruising atop a hill with the sea on one side, you can get a similar view - your mind really opens up - the theme of Star Wars
  gives me a mirror image of the same feeling!
  
  Has IR ever given a score like this ? No - obviously because he never got an oppurtunity/ a movie like that in the Indian context - but I have no doubts that it would have been a scintillating score had he done something like that
  
  The Omen - it starts with "Saave, irimu" in vocal chorus, followed by plucking 2 keys of the piano, and then a cello reverberates, giving a scary undertone, that fits perfectly with the ambience of the movie - as the theme song proceeds throug vocal chorus, it signals the arrival of Satan and the forces unleashed by him culminating in the crisp rendition of "Ave Satani" - then, a brief, very brief pause, and then "Saave irimu" again!
  
  oh! brief pauses, sense of timing for such pauses, Jerry, dear Jerry Goldsmith, were you and IR relations in your previous lives, or are you distant cousins in this life ?!
  
  THe awesome sense of silence and usage of pauses makes J.Goldsmith and IR kindred spirits!
  
  And the ability to come up with novel, enchanting, main themes, that have 'classic' written all over them, makes IR and John Williams, kindred spirits!
  
  So, is IR nature's synthesis of the musical spirits of two geniuses from across the world ? yes I would think so!
  
  The rendition of "saave irumu" in the beginning is similar to IR's "Om Om Hari Om" from the BGM of 'poovizhi vaasalile'!
  
  IR with our udukkai and urumi can create a similar effect if a decent adaptation of 'The Omen' is made in India (i am sure there must be some dumb inane versions already!) - IR would have given his own touch with a bass flute (the one you get to hear at the beginning of "Asaiya katthula" from Johnny!)and a blowing string passage!
  
  ET - ah! now that would be eating a rumball/cake with plum and cream on it for a very hungry IR - something like the violin theme that soars high would have sent our HCIRF spirits soaring high as well - I could get a little taste of ET-like score in 'vegam vegam' -especially the 2nd interlude
  
  Schindlers List (SL) - melancholy, agony, tragedy, helplessness - IR needs just a fiddle, as he did it in simple grandiose style in 'Mullum Malarum'- but a theme score like that of SL wud be easier for IR given his ease at bringing such moods into his music, than composing grand scores like Star Wars
  
  John Barry - his theme for 007 speaks volumes - but IR has done 'n' number of themes - particular mention has to be made of the theme for Rajnikanth in Dharamathin Thalaivan and Dharmadhurai
  
  Ennio Morricone - his more slower sober themes, remind me of Dire Straits 'Brothers in Arms' compositions, especially the use of the wind instruments - his one score is outstanding - the title score for the movie "Untouchables" - given a free reign without the restrictions of the confines of genres like the Spaghetti Westerns, Morrincone gives his very best
  
  Danny Elfman - ought to be called the Sishya of IR - listen to his title track for 'Goodwill Hunting' - that is IR, vintage IR! - his score for Red Dragon brings out the cannibalistic terror (thigil izhaiyodum!) running through the film's fabric and the one for Sleepy Hollow (music that evokes a combination of Gothic feel and subtle fear) and the Gothic feel of Batman - IR would have given Elfman a run for his money
  
  rest in next
  
  
• From: Music_lover (@ 202.141.98.226) on: Wed Apr 28 09:55:41 EDT 2004
  
  Howard Shore's score for 'Silence of The Lambs' - if any of you have read the book by Thomas Harris, you would realize with amazing wonder the kind of justice that the movie does to the book's dark narrative style - Shore's score, brings out the vulnerability in Jodie Foster's Starling Price (is that right?) character (especially those memorable encounters in the penitentiary between Hopkins' Dr.Hannibal Lecter and Starling, when Dr.Lecter repeatedly, gently taunts Starling, brings out her darkest fears) with such nuances, that one would never feel that the movie and the soundtrack are two separate entities - I can think of only a few guys in India who can make movies with such carefully crafted scenes - Kamal Hassan, Vishal Bharadwaj (see his Maqbool and Makdi), Bala and Bhagyaraj (in handling screenplays, he still has no equals) - for IR it would have been a musical challenge - but he has already done some challenging work in Guna and Pithamagan
  
  
• From: Music_lover (@ 202.141.98.226) on: Wed Apr 28 11:00:32 EDT 2004
  
  Mauric Jarre - light jingle like scores - IR can come up with themes like Lara's theme in facile fashion - Jarre's score for Lawrence of Arabia is unique - must have done the score with several other composers like J.Williams, J.Goldsmith etc having already made a name for themselves giving him a run for his money - but the ambience of this epic David Lean classic is perfectly brought out in this score
  
  Henri Mancini - can I call his style equivalent to that of Shankar-Jaikishen ? - not very novel, but just light-hearted stuff - he did give some good themes like that of Lovestory (blatantly lifted by Anu Malik), Pink Panther (once again lifted by some yesteryear composer for 1960s-70s movie, I am not sure which one)- for IR this kind of music would have been cakewalk, aka Mathew Hayden versus a hapless Zimbabwae bowling attack!
  
  James Horner - a sophisticated version of Deva of Hollywood! only his score for "A Beautiful Mind" sounds genuinely original - his scores often have shades of tunes/themes from John Williams
  
  Hans Zimmer - Ok composer, with very good command of modern synth stuff - example Mission Impossible: 2 - but I personally find his score for "The Gladiator" overrated - it is good, but a lots of hype
  
  So where and how does IR stand against the backdrop of all these composers ? IR's music though creative, does not have the recording embellishments, a luxury which all these composers have
  
  
• From: Gyan (@ 4.158.117.163) on: Wed Apr 28 11:50:19 EDT 2004
  
  Music_Lover: super analyses. i was telling someone Hollywood is parched for movie themes, except for big productions like Star Wars, Batman, etc..., Wherease Indian MDs, leave aside IR so easily come up super passages and quick themes in preludes and interludes, that comparing Western music with Indian film music has nothing much to compare, except for the scale and the beautiful orchestral sounds. Honestly, I think even Sankar Ganesh extraordinarily well (one eg.. Kettadhu Kidaithathu can take on any Bond score.)
  
  
  Yes, one aspect worth discussing is IR' influencing Hollywood and Hollywood' earlier composers influencing IR. in today' Hollywood u see IR' as like a magical inspiration behind Elfman (MIB is just very much a take off of some IR interludes in Raam Lakshman songs) , Zimmerman, there is a phenomenal Lilo....(Jackie Chan Hollywood films), then this guy who did a Disney Parade, even John Williams. Likewise, I see some influence of Gershwin (Puthum Pudhu Kalai), Mikolaz Rosza (GURU Mal), & John Barry' super effect bass orchestration in IR. The most thrilling Hollywood sound effect is John Barry' very first notes for the Bond movies!!!!!
  
  Of recent times, for the subtelty and sophistication, I give James Newton Howard (Shyamalan's composer) hats off, because he is very original and not a risk taking kinda composer, but shows class.
  
  But again, the scope of "Grand Scale" music in Indian films is like asking a south Indian to enjoy meals with a spoon and fork. Not necessary at all. Good example is Lajja, IR' Symphonic score just looked like too wasted on that movie.
  
  Most of hollywood' themes has a matching interlude from any of Indian composers song, need not be IR! By the way, Star Wars' level of themes may be seen in interludes of IR songs such as: Sundari Kannal Oru Seidhi; Desiya Geetham song by KJY; Manidha Manidha, Nenje Un Aasai Enna, etc.. However, I am trying to find a supremely catch match for Mission Impossible theme, I like that for its absolute directness.
  
  
• From: raja m (@ 67.87.27.19) on: Wed Apr 28 12:58:56 EDT 2004
  
  IMO IR's piano interludes in HeyRam match any great movie background score. The background score of HeyRam sets the ominous mood of the movie, especially the piece before Nee Paartha - the piano and flute merge so well. What a score!.
  Hope IR gets a chance to score for a movie like the Piano.
  
  Gyan you are right about James Newton Howard - happened to see the 6th sense recently, the music sets the mood.
  
  
• From: k (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Apr 28 18:34:57 EDT 2004
  
  Music_lover, you have selected an apt moniker for yourself. Appreciate all that info.
  I think I am with Gyan on indian MDs being able to create themes..but when it comes to making them memorable (which is what good music is all about) then everybody is on an even scale.
  The main problem that IR faces is, he does not have a good orchestra, venue and recording. Listen to Lajja, if atleast 10% of his works were recorded like that, he would be world famous now.
  As music_lover pointed out, only after IR is also recorded in high quality with a full orchestra like in Lajja, we can start comparing.
  
  
• From: k (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Apr 28 18:36:46 EDT 2004
  
  BTW, Ennio Morricone is an inspiration for IR. Have you guys listen to a Mahler inspiration of IR ? It is in a kamal movie can't recollect the name now.
  
  

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