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Hariharan's pronouncing

Topic started by Giridarapuram Suresh (@ begis50.swift.com) on Tue Jun 23 16:22:28 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

There has been many criticism on Hari's singing of Tamil songs, but I don't think he is singing that bad in terms of his 'Ucharippu' , Though there may be some words goes like that even for KJ it used happen like that, I feel Hari is singing excellant particullarly 'Ennai Thaalatta ..' and 'Vanna Nilave' and recent 'Vaanathu Thaaragaiyo'. I don't know why the criticism is ? May be just because he was introduced by ARR ?? BTW I am an ardent fan of IR .

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Responses:

• From: Rajesh (@ pdxss902.jf.intel.com) on: Tue Jun 23 18:18:49 EDT 1998
  
  Suresh,
  
  I don't think anyone criticises Hariharan just because he was introduced by ARR. When people talk just about his pronounciation, your posting seems
  to fuel another fight. I guess he is better than
  some other north indian singers but definitely needs improvement. He is much better than Udit but
  I guess he is yet not as clear as Yesudas.
  
  
• From: gOpAl (@ 1cust37.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net) on: Tue Jun 23 18:26:30 EDT 1998
  
  IMHO clause en vogue.
  
  'Ennai thAlAtta' and 'VAnathu thAragaiyO' by Hari are two of the best songs made look simple. (May be rAjA sings the track just to show people the right way to render the song, and Hari gives the unacceptable version!! Most of the male/female singers who have rendered TFM songs are/were outsiders. Hari, I believe, is a thamizhan and yet, his 'kal','kaL' etc., pronunciation is no good. There is no depth in his singing. Honestly, does he know thamizh? Sounds like 'for the sake of it' singing! Above all, his voice does not suit most occasions. He is yet another moderate singer with big time. That's it. IR has introduced many singers, like Mano. And, definitely, Mano is a better singer than Hari.
  
  Side kick:
  
  Most of the people here say that he is SPB's successor. I believe SPB has even accepted this in an occasion(??). Donno why!! Hari is in no way a match to SPB. yellAm vAzhvu Hari!!
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Jun 23 19:43:32 EDT 1998
  
  I am one of those who raised the pronunciation issue in another Hariharan thread. His Thamizh pronunciation is surface grazing. He doesn't have to hunker down and grind out every syllable like Sirghaazhi, TMS, or Malaysia Vasudevan, but at least to the level of the current KJY where we can tell that he knows the difference between "la","zha","il", and "ill". But language is a matter of habit, so I wish him well and hope he improves his pronunciation.
  Comparing him to an existing singer doesn't do him or the compared singer justice, so walking down that road is pointless.
  Maybe Ghazal training changes his voice in a different way that the pure Thamizh audience finds it sleepy and unmodulated. A friend of mine was explaining that Carnatic singers and Ghazal singers can't easily interchange their styles, that their brigaas are different. Any one care to elaborate on this?
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ pm062-01.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Tue Jun 23 21:49:38 EDT 1998
  
  its not his pronouniciation but the way he sings is what irks me a lot. He gives a sad tone to every song he sings...and theres no good modulation either. He has a long way to go...
  
  
• From: Girdarapuram Suresh (@ 207-172-75-114.s114.tnt3.man.erols.com) on: Tue Jun 23 23:03:32 EDT 1998
  
  I wonder one end there are ardent die hard fans for Hari and for his songs there are people who get irked by his singing, Definitely I see lot of his songs are mesmerising like 'Mudhal mudhalil paarthen Kaadhal vandhahe' from Aaha and 'nanri solla unakku..' from marumalachi are excellant pieces , still there is another excellant piece from 'Unnaiyae Kalyanam ... a telugu dubbing movie and the song goes like 'Kannukkull un uruvame' . Why I am quoting all these songs is his good song not only stops with famous ones like 'Ennai thalatta' or 'Vaanathu Tharagaiyo'. As a matter of fact But for his good singing he would not be so popular atleast to make certain people criticise.Finally why I mentioned about ARR is we all know ARR get bashed severly inspite of his good songs though not comparable to IR
  
  
• From: Girdarapuram Suresh (@ 207-172-75-114.s114.tnt3.man.erols.com) on: Tue Jun 23 23:04:17 EDT 1998
  
  I wonder one end there are ardent die hard fans for Hari and for his songs there are people who get irked by his singing, Definitely I see lot of his songs are mesmerising like 'Mudhal mudhalil paarthen Kaadhal vandhahe' from Aaha and 'nanri solla unakku..' from marumalachi are excellant pieces , still there is another excellant piece from 'Unnaiyae Kalyanam ... a telugu dubbing movie and the song goes like 'Kannukkull un uruvame' . Why I am quoting all these songs is his good song not only stops with famous ones like 'Ennai thalatta' or 'Vaanathu Tharagaiyo'. As a matter of fact But for his good singing he would not be so popular atleast to make certain people criticise.Finally why I mentioned about ARR is we all know ARR get bashed severly inspite of his good songs though not comparable to IR
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219) on: Wed Jun 24 01:49:42 EDT 1998
  
  singers like hariharan and udit narayan should not stay long in TFM as it is not healthy.they are not versatile and their pronunciations especially udit's is atrocious.
  i firmly believe that only if u have understood the meaning of the song u can sing it with the required kind of emotion.SPB brings in his little laugh in songs like 'namma ooru singaari' at exactly the right place,the tinge of sorrow in his voice in 'vaanuyarndha solaiyile' in idhayakovil,
  etc. u see what i mean.these new guys i guess write the songs in their native tongue or english or whatever and sing it in a monotonous voice,especially hariharan.just because of his voice many of the MD's are sounding stale and their songs sound repetetive.
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Wed Jun 24 06:04:26 EDT 1998
  
  Gopal: Mano is a better singer than Hari?!?!? How did you deduce this? I like Mano(he's Tamil, so he pronounces it well), but, in comparison with Hari, he lacks in training and voice modulation.....Have you heard Ey Shabba, Mukhala...He suits these songs and is also good at Jathi, but he's not in the same league as Hari...
  
  Why do you think Hari's fans have produces a web page for him? Have you heard him rendering Ghazals? What about songs like Oyvedu from Velai....what a great song....Yes, he need to improve his pronounciation, he has a harsh tone to Tamil, but it the Palgat coming out....Take as a cute accent, or don't listen to his songs....
  
  Unni Krishnan has been classically trained in Madras, so, even as a Malayalee, he generally pronounces well, except - Manam Virumbuthe - he says My Smell likes, instead of My Mind likes....KJJ had bad pronounciation in his starting songs, it's hard to change from malayalam to tamil....Hari has a Palgat accent, he's lived in Bombay for a long time and his wife is from the North, hence his exposure to Tamil must be lacking, hence his pronounciation....
  
  When you speak of SPB, do you know that he still writes all the words in Telugu and have you noticed songs like IlanCholai poothathaa? He sings IlanJolai, instead of IlanCholai.....Malaysia Vasudevan also sings the same song, with the Correct pronounciation.....
  
  Unless the singer is Tamil, these problem will occur, it's up to the MD to correct them. Then again, listen to TMS, he's from Sourashtram(so, he's not even South Indian) and his pronounciation is perfect, hence, the MD's must insist that singers improve their pronounciation....Singers like Asha Bonsle, Mithali, Udit maybe famous in their area, but their renedering of Tamil is awful.... ShenBhaHaMe, Yamunai Aatrile...What can I say, didn't their songs become big hits? Udit, I agree is awful, but in the situation required, he produces the goods....look at Sonia Sonia.... wasn't it a big hit? The use of Udit there was very effective, he was the rough tone(Asaivam) and Unni was the sweet pronounced one(Saivam). In that situation, it was appropriate, but I'm not commending him, as he has room for plenty of improvement...
  
  I heard a Half German, Half Malayalee girl sing Vennilave the other day and as she took care with the pronounciation and did a great job, so it goes to show that if people/MD's give enough importance to it, singers will respond....
  
  Even Nithyashree in Kannodu, doesn't pronounce that clearly, the first SonthaMillai sounds like SonthaVallai and most couldn't work out the Thaavikolla Mattum Thaan....So, why is no one complaining about these? She's Tamil and when she sings Classical, it's always very clear. Is it taht film songs don't bear enough importance? again, the song was a great hit.
  
  IR has used Hari in two films now, Poonthottam and KM, why is 'Your God' not questioning his pronounciation in Meetatha, Vennilavukku and Ennai Thaalaata? By that way, Viyay, have you heard songs like Meetatha(Poonthattam), or Vaanam Tharaiyil(Unnudan)? Do they sound monotonous to you?
  
  Is IR sounding stale by using Hari, where the KM song 'Enaai Thaalaata' was The Big hit of the year and brought the songs to fame? - You can't say that theIR versoin was the one that did it....It was hardly played.....I didn't see people singing the words of 'Ithu Sangeeda Thirunaala', however well pronounced it was.....Why do you think IR re-used Hari in Poonthottam for a Classical based song? Couldn't he have used Unni, who is a Classical singer in that? No one has critised Unni's pronounciation....
  
  Also, did you know that Hari is the HIGHEST PAID singer in TFM currently? MD's and People are not stupid you know, to be paying someone that much!
  
  Awaiting your replies.....
  
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Wed Jun 24 08:15:52 EDT 1998
  
  Mano is not a Tamil; he is a Andhraite; I think his real name is nAgoor bAbu; IR named him Mano when he introduced him in TFM.
  
  SPB pronouncing iLanCholai : SPB pronounces it correctly; it is iLanjOlai - written in Tamil with the idaiyinam 'gya' letter. SPB is faultless 99% of the time.
  
  TMS is a Sourashtrian only by origin; I think he was born in TN. Many Sourashtrians especially those who were born in TN (around Madurai) know only Tamil; they do not know Sourashtrian or Gujarati.
  
  This is NOT a question of IR's singers vs ARR's singers.
  
  IR introduced Asha Bhonsle and Lata Mangeshkar and Mitali in TFM; all of them have no business singing in Tamil. (Ditto for bavathArini).
  
  Similarly, success is not a good measure to gauge quality. I am a fan of IR; I heard poonthOttam songs and IMO, SPB would have done a MUCH better job than Hariharan. I mentioned in my review that in 'vAnathu thAragaiyO' that IR does a better job than HH - even though the HH version is the one which will probably make it to the movie. HH may be a master of ghazals but in TFM he just average.
  
  BTW, am I the only one who thinks HH sounds nasal at times ? (TMS also used to have this problem).
  
  
• From: G. Varghese (@ 142.194.172.200) on: Wed Jun 24 08:29:57 EDT 1998
  
  Geetha:
  
  Mano is not a Tamilian. He is from Andhra. In an interview published in the HINDU, he once described his earlier concerns about his Tamil pronounciation.
  
  I agree with you that it is unfair to ctiticize new singers for their lack of good pronounciation in their early songs. In some cases, mispronounciation could be a novelty. For example, there was a "cute" duet where Ilaiyaraja
  and Asha Bhonsle exchange the following lines:
  
  "Enga Ooru Kaathaleippatri Enna Ninaikkiren?
  Athu Enga Ooru Kaathal Pole Aalamillaiyei,
  "Aalam" Enraal Enna? Athu Rompa "Deep" Ammaa,
  Unga Ooru Kaathal Rompa "Doop" Ammaa......"
  
  I know the lyrics are not exactly as they were, but the pont is that in a funny situation like this, the distinct accent was an advantage. The girl in this scene had grown up abroad, but returned to the Tamil village where she met the hero.
  
  As Udit or Lata or Asha are not mainstream singers in Tamil, they will have to be judged at a different level thal KJY, SPB, TMS, etc. Hariharan, however is between the two groups. He is almost maintream now and will have to work harder on his pronounciation of certain words.
  
  

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