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Musical Concerts

Topic started by boardsover (@ 202.9.147.173) on Thu Apr 11 01:54:51 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

lotsa musical concerts are being held these days all over the world by (tamil) music troops as well as by MD's

as far as i have seen,i feel that not in a single concert was ARR's music reproduced properly (except for his own concerts like in Dubai,Los Angeles etc..)ARR's songs are all messed up if they are being reproduced on stage by someone else.....even his drum beats are made to sound like *tarai tappattai*.......they r really sick

y is this the case with ARR's songs alone and not with other MD's.

does it suggest that ARR relies too much on computers/electronics??
If he does,is it healthy for TFM??

or is it purely the quality of music and the musicians who work with him??

how is he alone able to reproduce the same music on stage??

this in no way relates to the singers who sing the song.....only the beats and other stuff

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Responses:

• From: ARR FAN (@ 202.156.2.131) on: Thu Apr 11 02:11:59 EDT 2002
  
  ARR's songs are far too complex for an average music director to reproduce.
  
  
• From: ASHOK (@ 156.153.255.134) on: Thu Apr 11 02:38:49 EDT 2002
  
  NO COMMENTS
  
  
• From: boardsover (@ 202.9.147.76) on: Fri Apr 12 01:59:49 EDT 2002
  
  is there any other MD whose songs are tough to reproduce??
  
  i mean not a few of their songs...but all
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Mon Apr 15 19:17:42 EDT 2002
  
  Instead of saying "tough to reproduce music", say "musicians". u assemble top class musicans and provide proper sound, and a stage with best acoustics, u get a top class show. it has nothing to do with music director.
  
  
  
  
• From: magix (@ 203.199.231.206) on: Mon Apr 15 20:56:14 EDT 2002
  
  happy holidays boardsover! ;)
  
  
• From: boardsover (@ 202.9.149.201) on: Wed Apr 17 03:36:32 EDT 2002
  
  Krishnamurthy : if dat is the case, then songs of MSV and IR (in TFM) should be tough to reproduce,but i don think dat is the case ?
  
  magix : thnx :)
  
  
• From: magix (@ 203.199.231.138) on: Wed Apr 17 05:41:32 EDT 2002
  
  ARR's songs r like this.. I mean the teh process of creating the song...
  
  ARR: Mr. Director, naan nethu raathiri ivalavu tune poturuken, take ur pick.. [shows him the tunes he's composed {he uses the keyboard}]
  
  Dir: Thanx pa. I'll take this 1...
  
  ARR: Alright, naalaikku record pannalam!
  
  (next day)
  
  ARR: Intha paattukku X um Y um perfecta irupaanga. avangala koopadunga Sridhar, please!
  
  [all arrangements done]
  
  ARR: Sivamani.. ithu thaan basic situation, oru _______ beat kudunga.
  
  ARR: Vera podungalen please.. {after he's thru}.. perfect. [records the beat, loops it over]
  
  [X, Y sing their parts.. in lines!! like this]
  
  ARR: X intha tune la paadunga {lyrix r ready of course}
  
  ARR: Y intha tune la paadunga
  
  [then every artist does his bit.. ARR records and alters and alters and alters and rerecords!]
  
  
  coming to the point... intha maari kashta pattu pannina oru paatta stagela reproduce pannaradhu kashtam thaan.
  I mean u cant expect JC to come on stage and..
  
  JC: ippo naan 1st line paadaren..
  Oru deivam thantha poove, kannil thedal enna thaaye..
  ippo naan 2nd line paadaren...........
  
  [rotten tomatoes'll fly!!]
  
  intha postukku apparam, rotten tomatoes will fly alright, on ME!!
  
  
• From: magix (@ 203.199.231.27) on: Thu Apr 18 12:02:26 EDT 2002
  
  a la ROTFL..
  
  ahem!!! ;))) NOM ROTFL! :)
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.207) on: Thu Apr 18 14:20:03 EDT 2002
  
  There are multiple parts to reproducing a studio recorded song live on stage
  
  1. Exact notes/chords as per the original.
  2. The exact sounds used - choice of instruments
  3. The balance of the sounds in relation to each other and in relation to vocals.
  4. Any effects used in enhancing voice/instruments.
  
  When vocal harmony is part of a song, then that has to satisfy criteria 1, 2, and 3 too.
  
  Actually, satisfying criteria 1 is the easiest part of all (though it may be challenging if one doesn't have musical talent). Irrespective of who the MD is, difficulty in reproducing the original on stage varies directly with the complexity of the original orchestration. poongaatru pudhidhaanadhu, pattaththu raaNi paarkkum paarvai, ennavaLe adi ennavaLe (appaa! 3 pEraiyum cover paNNiyaachchu :-)) are examples of difficult to reproduce on stage songs.
  
  However, ARR constantly experiments with sounds and mixes and matches from multiple sound modules within a single song. This makes reproducing the exact sound (as per original) difficult for a typical orchestra group which has 7 to 10 instrumentalists. Add to this, the complexity and perfection of studio balancing and the difficulty in recreating it in a stage set up - most of the times hastily put together 2 to 3 hours before the show.
  
  But ARR's experimentation with sounds and harmony comes back to bite him, during his stage shows too. That is why he resorts to playing his studio track in all the stage shows and uses the live instruments (sometimes) as an overlay on the track. Except when HH and ARR sing of course - then it is 100% studio recording including the vocals (only the lip-sync is live on stage :-))
  
  Now tell me, innocent Mr.Boardsover - do you want 100% original sounds (from ARR) or will settle for listening to live musicians putting together effort on stage to bring out "as close to original" music?
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: NCR (@ 206.30.30.2) on: Thu Apr 18 15:24:25 EDT 2002
  
  RajaG
  
  "That is why he resorts to playing his studio track in all the stage shows and uses the live instruments (sometimes) as an overlay on the track. Except when HH and ARR sing of course - then it is 100% studio recording including the vocals (only the lip-sync is live on stage :-)) "
  
  
  Thats true, I have the ARR's dubai show video recording where I clearly see the lip-sync.
  
  
• From: just a thought. (@ 151.201.26.193) on: Thu Apr 18 18:46:02 EDT 2002
  
  We need to understand one thing here, arr does not do music for stage performance. It is for a movie production. He tends to use the best gadgets from a movie perspective. He should not be blamed if stage performers are unable to reproduce it 100%.
  This factor forces even arr to use the real gadgets that he used during actual recording.
  
  Indian film music is more movies centric and it plays a major role in the movie. hence music is often tailored to the needs of the movie only.
  Singing movie music on stage is special talent to the group who is performing it.
  I would not blame the composer here and conclude arrs songs does not suite for stage. When did arr tell that he is getting out songs to be performed on stage?
  :)
  
  The Bombay dreams are some what scores for live stage setup/performance. We will be soon hearing some real nice scores from arr specially tailored for stage shows.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Thu Apr 18 20:38:56 EDT 2002
  
  rajaG..good explanation.
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Thu Apr 18 23:51:48 EDT 2002
  
  Simple analogy to further 'just a thought's' views. If I ask u which is a better medium, Cinema or Stage drama, what wud ur answer be? When performing stage drama u aim for perfection right at the first time. U miss some dialogues and fumble, no way u can get back to rectify that. Cinema u can have multiple takes. But both are superior arts with their own characteristics.
  
  So is it with music, not all music is Live music (=stage drama, like most of rock music), and not all music is studio music (= Cinema, most of ARR's songs). Live music u better get it right at the first time itself, Studio music u have ur own time. Is studio music inferior then? Its true that live music is fun, but so is studio music. Can u gaurantee that u wud get the right sound/timbre when u play live? Can u make ur guitar sound as if its coming somewhere at the back? U can, but that depends not on ur guitarist but on ur sound man, doing again what he wud do in the studio. (I havent recorded any studio stuff, but I was present for some sessions).
  
  Also for some of today's performances, the meaning of "live" is different than in the past. For example, I attended one concert, where there was only a guitarist performing. And what did he do? He played a progression on his guitar (he had an acoustic-electric), then he made it played over as a loop, while that was going, he drummed a rhythm on his guitar, made it play over as another loop over the first progression, and over all those,he played a long solo with distortion. He did all this without any breaks, he had some pedals for this. So is he doing a 100% live? One sense yes, one sense no. Depends on how u see it.
  
  RajaG and just a thought made the same point, ARR's music is not 100% suitable for a live performance, so we cant expect the 100% original, unless u use something not "live". But then u can make ur own beautiful live/cover versions out of ARR's songs, though they may not sound like the opiginals.
  
  (Kiru, how u doing??)
  
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Fri Apr 19 14:03:03 EDT 2002
  
  Sam..I am fine guy ..how are you ? Waiting for that refund from you ..I mean the other Sam..Uncle Sam :)
  You presented both sides of the coin - studio/live. I somehow feel 'live music' has much more spontaniety to it. But studio music could be technically perfect. Still, I think, people like IR, P Susheela feel the live version where all instrumentalists are playing together is perfect when it comes to 'timing'.
  Also, I think there is some difference between 'thAlam' and rhythm. The difference being 'thAlam' not just provides the timing, it also provides the 'accent'. This is a very essential ingredient in the music of I think MSV or IR. In order to get the thAlam right, I think the percussionist and the singer should be playing/singing live to do 'micro-adjustments' along the way. This is just my theory based on some observations..people like you, rajaG or hihi please correct me, if I am wrong.
  
  (One of the main things in ARRs songs I think that is difficult to reproduce is the reverb/delays. It may not be possible to find hardware equivalent of the effects he produces using software)
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Fri Apr 19 14:32:46 EDT 2002
  
  I dont agree with justathought..
  
  >> We need to understand one thing here, arr does not do music for stage performance. It is for a movie production. He tends to use the best gadgets from a movie perspective. He should not be blamed if stage performers are unable to reproduce it 100%.
  
  
  A bad excuse to sc*** up a live show. The emphasis is not on reproduction, but on just playing it live. You cannot play the same music *exactly* like u did before. Everyone knows this, so why fake?
  
  I saw the whole Pat Matheny live show dvd. Now that is real playing. Listen to the CD and then the recording u know live is live. Dont tell me ARR's songs are more difficult than theirs!!
  
  
• From: UV (@ 134.113.4.168) on: Fri Apr 19 15:39:48 EDT 2002
  
  Swami and RajaG sonna sariyathane irrukanum.
  Ava renduperume naraya live shows pannarava. :)
  RajaG thanks for your info. Have you plans to release any new albums on ur own?
  Swamiji waiting to hear from you more on this.
  Is is possible to program/sequnece the entire instrument part on the synth and then play it?
  ofcourse expect lets say tabla or dholak for example?
  
  

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