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Tamil Film Music Cateogories

Topic started by Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on Tue Mar 10 17:54:59 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I want all of us to participate in a healthy discussion to come up with reasonable definition of different kinds of music cateogories - thereby shedding more light to unexplored areas of Tamil Film Music as it is becoming more and more "international" :-) by the day. This process is simply to increase the knowledge base.

Cateogories that come to my mind are Carnatic, Western Classical, Jazz, Fusion, Flamenco, New age etc. -- :-) so many terms and so little definition.

As for Carnatic and Western Classical, their foundations lie basically in melody and harmony based approaches to music.

What are the foundations of other kinds of music ?
Are they based on the use of certain kind of instruments ?

Since TFM-DF consists of varied set of people with inclinations towards different musical tastes as well I am hoping a lot of them to contribute for this article

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Responses:

• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Wed Mar 11 16:28:54 EST 1998
  
  Mukund,
  
  ingE vElai thALAmal thalayaip pichchik kondirukkum bOdhu indha mAdhiri
  oru topic Arambiththu vittIrgaLE. May be this shoud go into permanent
  topics section so that I can post something later.
  
  bye for now.
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Wed Mar 11 19:41:25 EST 1998
  
  Hi Arul,
  
  Yes it would consume a lot of time I guess. Enakku ippa thaan sila naatkalaga velai ondrumillai. VETTI!!! Romba naalagave yosithu kondiruntha topic ithu. I am expecting some postings from guys like you to keep this thread alive.
  
  I am also expecting replies specifically from Srikanth who has enough qualifications to discuss this topic and from Nithin whose name these days seem to be connected with anything that is JAZZ :-).
  
  Mukund
  
  
• From: Sam (@ ecarh29c.nortel.ca) on: Fri Mar 13 10:59:59 EST 1998
  
  Some other categories might be:
  
  Folk
  Baila
  Remix
  Dappang Koothu
  Pop
  Bhangra
  Pathos
  
  As you can see some of the categories are similar or connected. I think the definition criteria for categorizing Thamil music is based on:
  
  Using other conventional styles (bhangra, baila)
  Tempo (Pop is usually fast beat)
  Feelings (Pathos)
  Instruments (Jazz)
  Cultural (Koothu)
  Mixed with other forms of music (Remix)
  
  Hope I am in the right track as far as this thread is concerned
  
  cheers,
  
  -Sam
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Mon Mar 16 14:33:52 EST 1998
  
  Hi Sam,
  
  Thanks. Your cateogorization here is more so based on the basis of how the songs sounds to you. Also, it has some specific kinds of instruments associated with it.
  
  But I am more interested in the underlying definition of the music associated with these categories. I am note sure how to express this though ? Typically, is innovative harmony of sounds an important feature of say, Jazz, etc.
  
  To me Rukmini Rukmini in Roja introduced the concept of harmony. This is what I am looking for. What are the concepts I should be looking for in these songs ?
  
  For example in Avatharam, "Chandirarum sooriyarum" is a great combination of Italian style music, some opera style singing and some simple melodic structure. But I am limited to expressing it as "Italian style music". I wanted more exposure into such areas.
  
  Discussions eagerly awaited.
  
  Mukund
  
  Thanks,
  Mukund
  
  
  
• From: NOV (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Tue Mar 17 05:57:53 EST 1998
  
  Mukund - I don't know if this would help, but in western terms there are four categories of music, i.e. Jazz, Pop, Rock and Classical. Indian music would include folk as well.
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Fri Mar 20 13:02:00 EST 1998
  
  Hi,
  
  NOV:
  Thanks ! I am not sure if reggae, flamenco fall as seperate cateogories OR if they come under any of the cateogories you mentioned.
  
  Let me start with Jazz first.
  
  I see a lot of people discussing about songs which they are cateogorizing under Jazz. What are the guidelines used to classify music in such a fashion ?? I am used to saying that the startingpiece in "Antha nilaava thaan" is a beautiful western piece. I come to that judgement based on the fact that it sounds similar so many of western classical stuff. I dont have a clear definition - as I would have in case of Carnatic song description.
  
  Can anyone come up with some definitions for say Jazz ?
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tl01.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Mar 20 14:08:33 EST 1998
  
  Mukund:
  Let me share with you the very limited knowledge I have about jazz. Among all the music forms I love to listen to--carnatic, hard rock, western classical, along with TFM/HFM/any IFM which I consider to be Contemporary Indian Music of its period of origin--I find jazz to be the most complex.
  
  Since it's difficult to explain jazz without its cultural roots, I'll start with a very brief history lesson and proceed.
  
  HISTORY: Jazz emerged as a recognizable form of music around the turn of this century in the Southern United States, but its roots go backward over several centuries and races. It's a synthesis of many cultural influences--musical and nonmusical, religious and secular, African and European. Such a synthesis or fusion was achieved through the institution(!) of slavery which started in the 1600s. In a nutshell, Africa's principal contribution to this "fusion" music was rhythm, Europe's was harmony and both furnished the melody.
  
  KEY ELEMENTS: Currently, jazz uses the Western European system of musical notation. As an interesting trivia, notes like the "fatted fifth" were actually invented since the impoverished African-Americans of the early formative jazz periods could afford only second or third-hand instruments which were not in a good enough shape to play traditional notes properly.
  Since traditional notation could not capture individual expression in jazz, jazzists use their own jargon, like swing (lilting, swinging feeling to the note) and i>layback (purposely delaying notes to be slightly behind the beat to create a relaxed impression). The feelings of "layback" and "swing" personalize the jazz sound, and create a sense of spontaneity which is the very essence of jazz.
  
  TYPICAL BIG BAND: Consists of the saxophone section, trombone section, trumpet section and rhythm section (piano, string bass, drums and sometimes guitar).
  
  ERA/ARTISTES & BANDS: There are multiple styles and schools of jazz. Without getting into details, let me just name a few artistes who are considered to be the defining artistes who took jazz to the next evolutionary step throughout the last century.
  
  1920s: The Blues
  Louis Armstrong (trumpeter/vocalist)
  Bix Beiderbecke (cornet)
  
  1930s: Depression Era
  Fats Waller (pianist)
  
  1930s/40s: Swing Era
  Benny Goodman (clarinet)
  Duke Ellington (piano)
  Nat "king" Cole (piano/vocal)
  
  late 1940s/1950s: Bebop era
  Charlie Parker (alto sax)
  Dizzy Gillespie (trumpet)
  
  late 1940s/50s/60s: Cool Era Evolution
  Miles Davis (trumpet)
  
  late 60s on: Free Jazz
  John Coltrane (alto/tenor/soprano sax)
  
  Today:
  Anything goes has always been the rule with this constantly evolving form of music. Today, music from the middle East and the East (including India) are brought in to create new fusions. Some of the reactionaries today are: Arthur Blythe (alto sax), Wynton Marsalis (trumpeter), Branford Marsalis (sax), Sheila Jordan (vocal) and several others.
  
  The above list is not comprehensive but just some major landmark names in jazz, for anyone who is interested in exploring jazz. Just as jazz is created personally its impact on the listener also is highly personal (a few degrees more personal than other music forms, IMO). Since jazz subscribes to the "anything goes" philosophy and continues to evolve, there is nothing definitive or finite about its grammar or the feelings/moods it evokes in listeners.
  
  Coming to TFM & jazz, I've seen glimpses of jazz dating as far back as the MSV/TKR era, though I would not call it jazz in the real sense since that era's music is predominantly melody-based. They seem to have "adapted" the Benny Goodman style "Swing Era" music in quite a few songs (consistently, LRE type songs). I personally feel IR excels in his use of western classical music concepts (even within "maNvAsanai" idioms) which automatically lead to the rich orchestration we've come to expect from him; I'm sure he's dabbled around with some jazz ideas given his diverse interests. In a few of Rahman's songs like the Iruvar song, I saw music reminiscent of the Miles Davis type "Cool Era" jazz. Overall, in my opinion, TFM has not tapped into jazz in any depth at all. Whether it should or not is an issue beyond the scope of this thread.
  
  Mukund, my apologies for such a long posting. I hope this is the type of info you were looking for. If it is, I'll be more than happy to write about Western Classical next.
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ internet-gw1.hea.com) on: Fri Mar 20 14:49:27 EST 1998
  
  Hey Kanchana,
  
  You are right. ! This was exactly the kind of posting I was expecting. Hope you can give me further info with examples for the present day jazz scenario. That can get me started on with jazz. I take your long posting as a confirmation of the fact that you felt there was something to discuss in this thread :-).
  
  I was about to anyway go into Western classical next. Further info eagerly awaited.
  
  Mukund
  
  

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